Free Speech Victory!

Discussion in 'Computers and The Internet' started by skip, Mar 22, 2007.

  1. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    It's good to see that FREE SPEECH still rules! This was a very good decision. Please note that this term "least restrictive means" is appearing more and more in Federal decisions.

    It has great significance for those fighting for Freedom of Religion (Religious Freedom Act), because it means the gov't must use the "least restrictive means" of enforcing laws that restrict our freedoms!

    So blanket bans like this won't fly because there are always less restrictive means of accomplishing the same goal.

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8O18BCO3&show_article=1

    PHILADELPHIA (AP) - A federal judge on Thursday dealt another blow to government efforts to control Internet pornography, striking down a 1998 U.S. law that makes it a crime for commercial Web site operators to let children access "harmful" material.


    In the ruling, the judge said parents can protect their children through software filters and other less restrictive means that do not limit the rights of others to free speech.

    "Perhaps we do the minors of this country harm if First Amendment protections, which they will with age inherit fully, are chipped away in the name of their protection," wrote Senior U.S. District Judge Lowell Reed Jr., who presided over a four-week trial last fall.

    The law would have criminalized Web sites that allow children to access material deemed "harmful to minors" by "contemporary community standards." The sites would have been expected to require a credit card number or other proof of age. Penalties included a $50,000 fine and up to six months in prison.

    Sexual health sites, the online magazine Salon.com and other Web sites backed by the American Civil Liberties Union challenged the law. They argued that the Child Online Protection Act was unconstitutionally vague and would have had a chilling effect on speech.

    The U.S. Supreme Court upheld a temporary injunction in 2004 on grounds the law was likely to be struck down and was perhaps outdated.

    Technology experts said parents now have more serious concerns than Web sites with pornography. For instance, the threat of online predators has caused worries among parents whose children use social- networking sites such as News Corp.'s MySpace.

    The case sparked a legal firestorm last year when Google challenged a Justice Department subpoena seeking information on what people search for online. Government lawyers had asked Google to turn over 1 million random Web addresses and a week's worth of Google search queries.

    A judge sharply limited the scope of the subpoena, which Google had fought on trade secret, not privacy, grounds.

    To defend the nine-year-old Child Online Protection Act, government lawyers attacked software filters as burdensome and less effective, even though they have previously defended their use in public schools and libraries.

    "It is not reasonable for the government to expect all parents to shoulder the burden to cut off every possible source of adult content for their children, rather than the government's addressing the problem at its source," a government attorney, Peter D. Keisler, argued in a post-trial brief.

    Critics of the law argued that filters work best because they let parents set limits based on their own values and their child's age.

    The law addressed material accessed by children under 17, but applied only to content hosted in the United States.

    The Web sites that challenged the law said fear of prosecution might lead them to shut down or move their operations offshore, beyond the reach of the U.S. law. They also said the Justice Department could do more to enforce obscenity laws already on the books.

    The 1998 law followed Congress' unsuccessful 1996 effort to ban online pornography. The Supreme Court in 1997 deemed key portions of that law unconstitutional because it was too vague and trampled on adults' rights.

    The newer law narrowed the restrictions to commercial Web sites and defined indecency more specifically.

    In 2000, Congress passed a law requiring schools and libraries to use software filters if they receive certain federal funds. The high court upheld that law in 2003.
     
  2. raysun

    raysun D4N73_666 4861786f72

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    It would be bad if porn was criminalized on a broader spectrum free speech is something that needs to be protected and held high....
     
  3. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    This was a law that could've been used to shutdown this website.

    Like we're responsible for who comes here and views this...

    Besides everything here should be accessible to children except those areas that we've already restricted.
     
  4. Liroy

    Liroy Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    Good!
    Very good!! :)

    But Skip,
    you wouldnt have to have worried if the site is not physically hosted in the US right?
    How does that law work for people?
     
  5. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    Yes, supposedly it would not have applied to websites hosted outside the US, but at times this site has been hosted in the US, and was back in the late 1990s.
     
  6. Adderall_Assasin

    Adderall_Assasin Senior Member

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    we lost free speech here in the US. we just dont know it yet.
     
  7. gardener

    gardener Realistic Humanist

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    The internet is like a huge mall or any public place. Why should parents feel free to take their children to places like that and turn them loose, relying on others to protect and defend them. Everyone screams personal responsibility. It's time that parents antied up and were responsible for their own children.
     
  8. sentient

    sentient Senior Member

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    I think Aderall said it though - you dont actually have the right to free speech - look at the terms of your contract with government - you elect politicians to do yoiur free speech for you - its they who decide policy and you can do nothing about it if they decide not to be so magnaminous - I dont understand your hapiness in this respect, skip, since you are still relying on some guilded twat in a black cape that presumes the right to guard your rights. Surely if you had any rights they would be yours - but a judge is in charge of your rights and therefore whenever the judges decide that government is right they will agree with government and you will lose your rights - this isnt a victory as such but a travesty - we dont have any rights but those which are laws they havent the force or the will to lock down
    All this really means is that they had better not contest such laws in parliament or it will cost too much because each case would be tried on its merits and what is a work of pornography any way - here in Britain an artist who photographed her kids running around naked on a beach argued that she was photographing innocence and it was the dirty minds of some pervy cops that turned them into pornography and the judge agreed - but the state says too much - whose fucking laws are these anyway - whos world is this anyway? they have people believing the judges are the protector of the people - but they are diminutively sad corrupt assholes in league with government - its a scam - just a scam because it just means they aint got the force or the money to contest each and every case - it just means if they can get you they will get you and if youre borderline they'll leave you alone

    What it really means in other words is that if they want you - theyll have you under some law or other

    In this case the judge said that parents should be responsible - now all government will do is go away and draw up a new law that over rides that decision because we all know, skip, that the one thing government cannot tollerate is free speech outside of the elected representatives of free speech

    In Britain The Muslim Council of Britain argued that it should have a shariah law and a set of shariah courts - you can imagine how big the middle finger of government is in such a situation - so why does it tollerate written forums - well because there arent yet the laws to limit them - YETbeing the operative word

    BTW may I be amongst the first to welcome you into the computer forums
    ha ha ha
    we are indeed honoured
     
  9. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    These are judeo/christian morals that have imbedded themselves into our justice system, despite safeguards. This is because we let the religious fanatics gain too much political influence.

    But there is a growing movement away from mixing faith and politics, esp. among christians. The anti-Christian backlash is growing everyday because people are starting to see evangelical religious beliefs & leaders traded peace for war, and have stood by Bush and should sink with him.

    Sentient your words ring true.

    You make a valid point about representative government limiting democracy, something I think may be the greatest failure of our system. We don't need it anymore as Internet Democracy is coming soon.

    But that is a separate issue from free-speech. We are using our free speech right, right here, right now. We haven't been silenced yet. But that may still be coming if we don't continue to speak out as we have been.

    There are NO LIMITS to what the people can do if they decide to do it. At some point events may compel many complacent people to action.

    I do sense a waking of the collective consciousness these days. And once people wake up they won't go back to sleep.

    So long as we continue to disgrace our country with unwinnable, yet profitable wars that are leaving a legacy of hate around the world, people will wake up in ever increasing numbers.

    And then America's Collective Karma will come back to haunt all Americans for generations to come (if there are any left...)
     
  10. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    so that's what "the naked news" was all about. i was sort of wondering.

    well as you probably know, i don't believe anyone bennefits from "cutting" anyone "off from all adult content". i think i'd get damd tired of it if everything became nothing but "porn". but at this point that's neither here nor there. the striking down of copa is a major step in the right direction. i would say almost whatever the precidents involved.

    i also have never understood how anyone can be physicly endangered by anything that stays on the other end of a modem. unless it doesn't. and the only for that to happen is when children or anyone else for that matter, gets conned into giving out personal information that no one needs to know anyway.

    i'd call the striking down of copa VERY good news indeed.

    =^^=
    .../\...
     
  11. sentient

    sentient Senior Member

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    At first It looked to me like the issue was one of "who decides the moral climate"
    but now I realise its an issue of "who pays for your morality" - If your morality isnt mine then why should I pay to protect your family? he who is moral pays for their brand of filter
     
  12. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    What most fear addled parents don't realize is that it's not the Internet that is to blame. That's akin to blaming the phone company for kids giving their phone numbers out to strangers.

    No the blame rests first with parents who should teach their children about these matters BEFORE they ever get online. Then they have the responsibility to monitor their childrens' Internet activities, and there is plenty of software available for that.

    Even then, there are still several steps that would be necessary before ANY CONTACT or ANY CRIME is involved with children.

    The kids would have to give out location information. Or they would have to agree to a rendevous. But wait didn't their parents tell them never to trust strangers or meet with them or go in their cars? So there should be another whole layer of security programmed into kids at this point.

    Then for a kid to go ALONE to meet a stranger, is another STUPID move on the part of the kid and another failure of parental and school education, not the Internet.

    Lastly for the stranger to actually harm the child, the point at which an ACTUAL crime has been committed, the child would have had to agree to a specific set of circumstances before this could occur - Going alone to a meeting, telling no one, then meeting in a place without anyone else around.

    Now if that set of circumstances didn't set off alarm bells with parents or children (who are always supposed to tell their parents where they're going right?), then again that failure is so far removed from the Initial Internet contact as to make that online contact the LEAST important factor in the crime.

    But you see that wasn't the only intent in the law. The law was written to enable the government even further control over the Internet.

    By giving the gov't grounds to shutdown websites based on the "potential" of content to "harm" a child, that precedent could easily be extended to whatever reason they chose to shutdown a website based on some perceived "potential" harm that could come about child or not.

    So it could've easily been broadened to shutdown any site that say was against the Iraq war because it might "harm" our soldiers ability to fight or lower their morale, or whatever convenient excuse they could dream up.

    Good Riddance to that law! :)
     
  13. ronald Macdonald

    ronald Macdonald Banned

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    I see where youre coming from. Yep You are so right man.
     
  14. Adderall_Assasin

    Adderall_Assasin Senior Member

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    the religous fanatics use religion to gain power in politics, then they use politics to enforce their religion.

    (btw, i am a Christian but i am very different from probably every christian you know)
     
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