Where have all the mystics gone?

I can appreciate some of the underlying ideas of Christianity. Love your neighbor, help those in need, a strong sense of community. Yet there has always seemed like something was missing to me. I think for me the problem starts with the death of Christ, and the belief that all has been forgiven if you just ask. It seems like a nice idea, and no doubt it's much easier to place your burden on someone elses shoulders instead of taking responsiblility for yourself. I think this idea though, which seems harmless at first glance, has caused Christianity to remain a product of the time it was born in with no room to grow and evolve as a religion. When I first became interested in religion at a young age I was exposed to both Christianity and Hellenic Paganism at the same time, both of my own volition, and since I've always tried to understand the beliefs of as many different religions as I could grasp. Now this doesn't mean much, except it's given me a better perspective with which to decide why Christianity has always turned me off. Certainly some atrocities have been commited, but no religion is free of that problem.


At first I thought the reason was that Christianity lacked the depth of other religions, but I've since reconsidered this after discovering the writings of some great minds within the religion. The problem here though, for me at least, is that these men and women have been wholly ignored by the Christian majority because they were born after the bible was compiled so they're not considered legitimate sources. Now I have a few questions for the Christians on this board, if there are any left. Where is the personal exploration? Christianity is a rich spiritual tradition when you take into account the writings outside of the bible along with the ones within it. I guess what I'm really wondering here is where are the mystics, because it seems to me the religion was founded around one. There have been a few, but very few for 2,000 years. Which brings me back to salvation through the death of Christ. Personal exploration within a spiritual tradition begins with not just knowing you have faults, but understanding them and changing them of your own will. This leads to further exploration of your own inner world, and a better understanding of your fellow man and woman. This quickly breeds tolerance for others, and possibly personal experience with the 'spiritual aspects' of the natural world. When all you do is ask for forgiveness, wether in your head or out loud, there is no change involved. You may feel like you have changed at first, and some can convince themselves for a long time that something has taken place, but your still the same person. Now morality is subjective and I'm not saying change is necessary, but that does seem to be the purpose of religion. So where have all the mystics gone?

 

I wanted to comment on your post, especially about the part of people just saying they believe with no change in their heart. Some people call that 'easy believism'.

You are right that it doesn't seem right, and it really isn't what Jesus teached. I just read an article yesterday about this and the author had some really good points, which I'll bring up here.

A) Believing in Jesus is the first step, but when you believe certain things will follow that commitment. In the bible it is called 'sanctification'--becoming more and more like Christ....sanctification is a life-long process. (Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.)

In Luke 10:25 and 18:18, Jesus is asked what must I do to inherit eternal life?.. (you can look those up at www.biblegateway.com )

B) To the first passage, the answer is to love God with your heart, soul, strength and mind and to love your neighbor as your self

C) 2nd passage: Jesus ask the man to give up all his riches and follow him, which the author parallels to dropping anything for God that he ask you to....i believe that is something that continually happens throughout your life....like taking up your cross daily, living for Him more and more everyday

D) if you love God, you will obey his commands, 1 John 5:3 "This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome"

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Some Christians don't look too much at wise men of the past, but certainly, alot do. Personally, I am interested in the great teachers from the past, but I don't take what they say as absolute. I would compare what they say to the bible and take what is good. I actually get a newsletter in my email about Christian history and I find it very interesting. But not everyone likes looking into all of that I think that is okay. You don't have to believe in everything his followers do, to believe in Jesus.

peace....i hope that addressed at least some part of your questions!

 

Hello Jen, thank you for your reply, very interesting. I think the idea of sanctification is an important one, and goes along well with what I was trying to say in my first post. I'm not speaking in absolutes here as to Christian beliefs, because that would be impossible given the various interpretations of scripture that can be made. For instance I'm not a Christian, but I read the bible and study the teachings of Jesus. I respect him and his teachings, but the way I interpret them both would be blasphemous to most Christians. Because the bible is a collection of different books, some of them I interpret as allegorical tales and in others I see the experiences of a mystic. I see within Christian writings reflections of my own beliefs, yet they differ wildely from what's practiced by the majority of Christians. Since there are so many possible interpretations it is hard for me to see how people can be satisfied with the bible alone, and never question it. This is where I see mysticism stepping in because it is based on first hand experience. From spending time studying different religions I've noticed a pattern, that all religions have both exoteric and esoteric aspects. Most religions have a set of moral values that work as preperation for the deeper spiritual practices they will undertake. Mysticism seems to be at the core of every religion, and is a unifying factor. From a mystic perspective it seems that all religions are saying the same thing. The reason I made this thread in the Christianity section is because it seems that most Christians have all but lost touch with the esoteric side of their religion.


The spiritual practices of the East are well known, Judaism has the Kabbalah, Islam has Sufism, and there are many religions that have been lumped under the term Pagan that have their own complex systems of practices. After spending some time studying these religious practices I can easily see the same things spoken of in Christianity. How many Christians are aware of this, or even care for that matter? How many would be afraid of these practices being the work of the devil? What does it really mean to become more and more like Christ? Is it so simple as believing in Jesus and trying to be a good person, or is there something deeper involved? The goal of most mystics is union with God, which is what sanctification seems to mean.

 

well , let us count the mystics . you got your christian nature mystics like my ma who talks with birds . then there's your language mystics who see the word of god woven in metaphor upon metaphor . and there's some great christian artists , too . mmm... seems all about language , and this Word of god can be most utterly mysterious of from thunder to silence and through-out all of creation . mystics are adventuresome ? will listen to the chick-a-dee ? at least that , and sublimely so .

union with god is grand-ee-oos . and the mystic One-heart is common as dirt . my friend kate-the-train-hobo says just sit your ass in the dirt and be humble .

 

i agree that some Christians are afraid to even come near to saying that other religions, spiritualities and philosophies hold at least some truth. I think that attitude comes from the thought of not wanting to lead a nonbeliever in the wrong way. (This is just what I think the reason is, personally, as a person who practices Christian spirituality.)

There are many spiritual practices that some Christians are worried about, like meditating (on the bible), or "Be still and know that I Am God" (Psalm 41:10). But I do believe that these are practices that are much more common in eastern believers (Christians).

....ooh, i wanted to write more, but i need to go to work!

Thank you both for this respectful conversation. Peace and blessing!

 

Yes, I've noticed that but I don't see what there is to be afraid of. Many philosophies complement Christianity, and the other religions of the world are not the enemy. Though some of their followers may consider themselves so, they are usually misguided by their own emotions and not the commands of their religion. I can understand the feelings of many Christians who want to lead others to their faith alone because they believe it the only way, I just can't condone it. When you engage someone in a conversation about religion with only the intent to convert them there can be no real exchange, because you have already isolated yourself from the other person and any other beliefs they may be willing to share with you. You can't spread peace and love if you won't accept it in return.

There are many ways to meditate, and at it's most basic level it is simply deep thought, or contemplation. Many passages of the bible are very cryptic and deserve to be meditated on instead of glossed over and taken at face value. Of course I could be talking complete bullshit, the only way to know is to try it out and make your own decision. I see so many passages in the bible describing peoples first hand experiences with the divine, that I wonder why more Christians don't put down the bible and seek out their own experiences. They already have the belief, experience is the next step. Hell, the most read book of the bible is probably 'Revelations' and it is all the record of one mans visionary experience.

Thank you for joining in with your own thoughts on the subject, they have been most enlightening. I hope you share more of them when you find the time.

 

double post

 

I think that many Christians do, do this! I try to do this in my life. I believe that the scripture is there to help me live outside the scripture, know what I mean? The word is there to help 'flesh' it (scripture) out in the world. I believe in learning the bible, and developing an understanding of it, and knowing what you believe and why. But if I only know them in my head and not in my heart, what's the point?

i want to live life beyond the bible, but not without it. There will be somethings that will happen in my life, that are not mentioned as someones' experience in the bible--and God is still working in that.

I think it is easy for 'long-time' Christians to become 'stale' in their faith - you start to know what to expect in your journey. Maybe it is just the people I happen to be around, the books I've chose to read or my church, but I see Christians starting to reach out to have their own experience with God. One guy who is a part of the church that I meet with, has a notebook at that he draws and reflects in during our meeting and worship. That is how he experiences God.

I want to experience God in all that I do--I want my experiences to be filled with thanks and gratitude and passion for life. I don't want to be selfish, like I can be, and get upset when things don't go exactly how I want. When I sew, I want to enjoy it. When I cook or take a walk or exercise... Daily life can be an experience with God.

Sometimes, it is more of a "mystical" experience. Out of nowhere I may feel a burden to pray for someone. Or God will put on my heart to fast. Or something will happen and I'll take one more step in my life as living to be a servant of God. All of these things I feel are directly from God, because I don't always want to do them. Mysticism is generally considered to be a deep crying out for God in that person's life. Right now, I feel like I am going through that, but other times, I feel spiritually dry.

I completely agree with this statement. I've heard this called "cold witnessing" or something like that. If all you care about is converting another, I think you completely miss the point of relationship. And if your mind is just set on that one thought, you can't really love that person, because you are respecting what they say to you.

I think you have to build relationships. And I don't think that we as Christians are meant to convert people, in the way it is usually perceived. We are to share the love of Jesus. We are to love people, even if they disagree with us or vice versa, at the end of the day. Christians should tell people about Jesus. I truly believe that the only thing that can convert people is God himself. But that doesn't mean he doesn't use people to share Jesus love.

The last verse or two of the book of Matthew commands believers to go out and make disciples. That means to teach people about Jesus and who he was and is. To help people to know him. You can't force religiion on people. But you can share your own personal journey.

i love that, so true.