North American Union/SPP

The semantics, of course, being that no superhighway is actually being built. The I-35 already exists. Think about it - your theory is that building a highway across the Mexican border (ignoring the fact that there have always been highways across the border) will lead to a the two countries merging in what, three years? The whole idea is laughable. In particular, the idea that anyone would be dumb enough to believe in a four football field wide highway is beyond hilarious. Go on Rat, show me ACTUAL EVIDENCE of a four football field wide highway being planned!

That's a total lie, and a bit of a joke coming from someone who thinks every source in the world which doesn't agree with them is part of the illuminati controlled conspiracy. You ignore arguments you can't answer, then you whine when people point out you use racists and extreme right nutjobs as your sources. That's why you skip out in the middle of a debate to repeat the same lies in a different thread. Always on the run.

When you use anti-semites as sources, there is nothing off tangent about pointing it out.

Excuse me, but what is socialist about objecting to the use of jew hating loons as sources? And aren't you the one arguing for restrictions on free trade, for big government to dictate the who what and where of trade? Looks like you're the anti-trade socialist around here.

Only you are dumb enough to accuse someone of "ignoring the heart of the discussion, going off tangent... always some kind of diversion... dodging questions". If that wasn't a diversion, i don't know what is.

Becuase other than your personal attacks and accusations, what have you provided? A link to Jerome Corsi, the racist liar and idiot behind SBVfT, who i already discredited, a link to an even loonier right wing crank, who does nothing beyond quoting the first article and throwing in junk about Bilderburg conspirators, and a video link to a Lou Dobbs editorial (complete with John "fluoridation is a communist plot" Birch loon) which I've already responded to.

You are reclycling arguments in Rat style. Prove something wrong and it will reappear a page later. You can't actually prove the NAU exists or that the highway is being built, but you just keep dumping random links in the thread and expecting me to respond to them.

 

"When he enters the debate, it quickly goes off tangent, into an argument about Right-wingers or anti-Semites or xenaphobes"

That's why I question why he's here. It has been documented in mainstream news articles that Centcom does go to Blogs and Forums and try to discredit and confuse legitimate arguments and discussions about real things. This guy is a spook I think. Anyone who spends this much time fighting against someone is very suspisious, any normal person would allow someone to believe what they wanted to believe and move on. He obviously has some sort of agenda.

 

Thanks for diverting the debate into discussion about who's a cointelpro spy, you hypocritical idiot.

 

First of all I do apologize for that, it was kind of unfounded.

Second of all, Judicial Watch has done several FOIA requests on the SPP to release Minutes and other Documents.

This comes from the SPP Meeting with Commerce Secretary Gutierrez in March 15, 2006.

On March 23, 2005 , heads of state Vincente Fox, George Bush, and Paul Martin met in Waco, Texas for a summit of North American leaders. The Principal outcome of this meeting was the launch of the SPP"

So The SPP isn't just a bunch of "College Professors" meeting about new trade policies, they have been placed together BY the leaders of the three nations in North America, and they are setting policy.

Introductory Remarks By Secretary Gutierrez

http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2006/SPPFOIADocsSecIII.pdf

"NAFTA has been successful-despite popular misconceptions and misinformation. We need to do more to commercialize the benefits"

"The SPP seeks to build on NAFTA and boost the global competitiveness of North America"

"In a coordinated fashion, the three North American governments must publisize more effectively the benefits that NAFTA has brought their populations" (The SPP Admitting they have to use propaganda to sell this)

"To Furthur Integrate our economies we need to extend the benefits of trade to industrial goods, consumer products and commodities to financial services"

"North American Governments must establish educational programs to promote life sciences, mathematics, and engineering curricula to build the capacity of the region in order to compete more efficiently with the Asian Economies" (Pointbreak, ever hear of the Asian Union?)

"In 2008, travel between North American countries will become more complicated by requiring those crossing our borders to have a valid passport." (So the illegal aliens get to cross without anything, get a bank account and a housing loan with no social security at Bank Of America, but WE the American People have to get treated like slaves and show our "papers" to the officials everytime we want to go somewhere?)

Just because they haven't come out and said "This is the NAU" doesn't mean it's not there. Look at the minutes yourselves from the rest of the speakers, and conclusions they came to. It's all about merging our economies together, merging our Transportation, Merging our governments!

 

Excellent post Angel.

 

I salute you for that.

Conspiracy theorists should try that more often.

Who said the SPP was a bunch of college professors talking? Not me. When Gardener starting talking about the SPP using taxpayer dollars for a $200bn development fund, I pointed out it wasn't taxpayer dollars and the fund is in the imagination of a college professor - not part of the SPP. And while the SPP may be policy, it isn't legislation or a treaty. None of it is binding, it is just a handshake agreement.

Why shouldn't they promote it when racist liars like Jerome Corsi are fearmongering and trying to create panic about it.

If you think about it, this is kind of meaningless. They increased the requirements for border crossing, and you're trying to find a way to complain about it even though you're whole argument is that they are eliminating the border. Not really consistent.

And the fact that right wing xenophobes think its an NAU doesn't make it one either.

You might want to point out the part about merging goverments, I think I missed it.

 

:lol:

 

Yeah, and the fact he didn't bother to argue with any of the quotes i provided from the Secretary Gutierrez meeting, just the one that had nothing to do with the NAU. I can't see why he can't just face up. Yes, there are racists like Jerome Corsi who I totally disagree with on every issue who are saying the NAU is real. But if Hitler said that Killing people is bad, it wouldn't make it any less true, just because of who said it. Why don't you see that the entire world is being formed into unions, and you don't think it's going to try and be passed here?

 

Funny how these non-binding handshake things become official policy after the fact without public input. All I am calling for right now is full disclosure of the players and the policies being worked out in private. Why not go to congress and fully disclose the motives and workings behind the SPP? And allow them to perform the duties that were placed on them through the constitution. If fast track is renewed, what the college professors and private corporate consultants have constructed will indeed become law and policy without due oversight or input.

 

Ok, now how is Jerome Corsi a racist? Because he's against having the country flooded with illegal aliens, many of whom are unable or unwilling to assimilate into American society, who become a burden to the US taxpayer and a burden to the economy? The racism label seems to be thrown on anyone who is against the open borders/NAU agenda, just like you're deemed an anti-Semite if you question 9/11 or the neocon agenda. These are the establishment tactics used to thwart any debate over these issues. I am surprised you are now buying into this nonsense, Angel.

So please, whether you agree with Jerome Corsi or not, exactly how is he a racist? I suppose anyone opposed to the globalist agenda of destroying national sovereignty through open borders is a racist? This is typical globalist/socialist/NWO thinking, and is playing right into the hands of the elitists implementing this from the top, who are hell bent on destroying this country and merging us into a North American Union.

 

The common person's only recourse is to continue to ask his representatives about this issue and insist that they be knowledgeable about it and demand oversight. To pretend ignorance of it, and argue about syntax is to allow it to progress to a point where it becomes fact.

 

I didn't need to argue with your quotes, because none of them proved your case - where's the NAU? Where's the merging of the two countries? Go back and read them again - which one proves a NAU? They all show that the SPP is mostly concerned with trade, it is basically an attempt to make NAFTA work better. Now you may be against NAFTA and free trade, in fact I'm sure you are, but that is a seperate argument.

I see the world forming regional trading blocks, when i would rather see free trade expanded via the WTO, but I don't see political unions. I would say the probability of a NAU is 0%. That's why NAU fearmongers need to be so dishonest. Keep in mind I live in the EU, I know what a political union is. I oppose every aspect of the political elements of the EU. But I can also see with my own eyes that the EU is a big joke, even though lots of Europeans support it. In the US and Mexico, where support is near zero? Forget it.

You're just making that up. Legislation does not appear out of nowhere. Treaties must be accepted by the Senate. Anyone can sign non-binding agreements, but that's all they are, non-binding agreements.

Because it isn't legislation! Because the SPP isn't and has never been a secret!

No, fast track agreeements still need to be approved by congress. You are again making things up. Considering how many times you have been lied to about this NAU, maybe its time your turned some of your scepticism towards the fearmongers?

Blah blah freaking blah - anyone who disagrees with the NWO conspiracy is part of it... those elitists... the globalists... right into their agenda....

The evidence is staring you in the face Rat. You continually quote from racist, extreme right sources and then pretend its all just a big misunderstanding. This is the Jerome Corsi you consider a great source, and he sounds a lot like the Kevin Barret ("it’s a Zionist Big Lie that the Germans hated the Jews for no reason", "the Holocaust as it is taught in the US as a hideously destructive myth" "Ernst Zundel's work deserves consideration").

 

We saw how well Fast Track worked with the passage of NAFTA and we have had over a decade to see how well that has worked and met the expectations that were promoted for it's passage. Now we are looking at expanding it's scope?

I have never lied about the NAU/SPP, you like to cloud the issues by making blanket misrepresentations.

 

An explanation of Fast Track for those that are unfamiliar with it:

I see no reason to delegate more of the constitutional powers of congress to the executive branch. It's time congress assumed their duties and were held accountable.

 

Couldn't work much worse:

http://www.commondreams.org/scriptfiles/views03/1207-03.htm

We were told at the time NAFTA was passed that if it didn't work out we could leave NAFTA, I think we only have to give six months notice.

Canada is not really happy about how well it has worked either.

http://www.ualberta.ca/~parkland/research/perspectives/CanadaFirst06OpEd.htm

Please, visit and read the full documents at both links. The quotes are just a sampling of their full content.

 

I never said you lied, I said you were lied to. As far as I can tell, when the NAU scaremongers turn out to be racist liars, you still don't care. You really want to believe in it.

Thanks, but I'm not debating your trade links - which can be summarised as "anti-free trade activists say they don't like free trade" - as if I were unaware such people existed. It is getting off topic. As far as NAU (the conspiracy to merge the US and Mexico into one country) and four football field wide highways, you've got nothing to show.

 

Love the labels Pepik. You can't seem to make your arguments without labeling people. The articles I posted listed the "benefits" of Nafta for all three countries involved. I've yet to see you list any references to support your stance.

As to the super highway issue. It's not just a figment of our imagination.

http://www.corridorwatch.org/ttc/cw-ttc-vs-ih.htm

 

Please - my point is that you are supposed to be proving that there is a plan for a political union between Mexico and the United States, not complaining about free trade. I'm not getting sidetracked.

What is your link supposed to prove? That highway doesn't even go to Mexico and its not four football fields wide. Are you trying to prove that the government builds big highways? Why?

 

It doesn't go to Mexico?

http://www.corridorwatch.org/ttc_2007/CW00000130.htm

I love how you free traders don't relate trade policy to political policy. Just what is your definition of politics if all facets related to trade are no longer considered nationally of political relevance.

Many of the issues being negotiated behind closed doors by appointees undermine states rights and the right of the American public to be aware of issues that affect themselves.

Almost every item in their agenda addresses "streamling" and "updating" regulations, what regulations are those? Regulations that have currently been formulated nationally with public input perhaps?

Globalists pat us on the head and tell us not to worry about matters of trade....yeah right!

http://www.spp.gov/prosperity_agenda/index.asp?dName=prosperity_agenda

 

Once again, I am trying to stick to the topic. Where's the political union?

NAFTA has been passed. i support it. You don't like it? Start a thread on it. Elect a government that gets rid of it. Whatever you want.