hey every one ive been really confused about my spirituality for a while. I was born and raised in a christian home. and i accepted christ as my savior at a young age. and my religion says thats all you need to do to get into heaven. but now im older and questioning if there is a god. and i keep thinking if there is one and if there is a heaven and hell that i might go to hell. Im really worried about it. I think about all the time now. Ive been having wierd dreams, thinking about the end of the world, the antichrist, etc. I cant get this out of my head. I think its because Ive realized if hell is a place Ive just realized how unbeleivably terrible it is. I just want to feel close to God again and be 100% positive im going to heaven. But I still need to know that there is a God. Im just really confused and it sucks.
I'm sorry about that ... I imagine it must feel terrible ... HTML: HTML: HTML: DISCLAIMER: This is not a persecution, xtian-bashing, response ... HTML: HTML: HTML:
This is where Campbell usually steps in... but I will try my best. Jimi, Many Christians at one point or another feel this uncertainty. Some just fall away to the evils of the world, and others choose to do the research and find out "why they believe what they believe." I also was raised in a Christian home. I went to church just about every Sunday. I went to a public school for most of my life and most of my friends were not considered "Christian." From since I can remember I had people asking about my faith. They asked about it because I did not take part in certain activities. In high school I did not drink, smoke, or even swear. In a public HS a person that is abstinent from all three of those activities is rare. So people begin to ask questions. That is why it is SO important to lead by example and your words you speak (ie not swearing) can be the great example for Christ. As I got older people started to ask questions more in depth. Questions concerning the backbone of the Christian faith-The Bible. "Wasn't the Gospels written almost a 100 years after Christ... how can they be accurate?" "How would you respond to a muslim that believed the Koran?" During my HS years I was asked those questions and they stumped me. Yet, they propelled me to figure out the truth. I consulted with my father who pointed me in the dirrection of prophecy. He told me that the Bible has hundreds of prophecies that talk about the future that have been fulfilled. He then up the anty and told me that no Bible prophecy has ever been wrong. The prophecies of the Bible up to date were flawless. But how could simple men write this book and then predict the future? (asked myself). My dad would point to verses such as 2 Timothy 3:16 which tells us all scripture is God-inspired. Therefore, although men wrote the Bible, God ultimately guided them to create a FLAWLESS book. the prophecies my dad would tell me about only shined evidence that the Bible that Christians believe is truly the word of God. NOW, keep in mind that as Christians most of the world is against us (you will find that out soon on this forum there are few Christians on the "Christians forum"). However, most of the world is with Satan... My challenge to you is to take time to research and figure out why you believe what you believe? Do not be afraid to ask questions about your faith to better understand it. However, make sure you find a reliable source to do so. Keep in mind their are very scarce source here on the forums. They are out to decieve and transform you into their worldly or pagan view. In all, draw closer to God and He will draw closer to you. In regards, to your dreams, I am very interested to hear you describe them. Perhaps you can make a seperate post about them. I believe sometimes dreams do tell us things.
Just some things for you to consider... 1. Grace being the only way to heaven, was decided upon by the Roman Catholic Church, in the 5th century. Pelagian, a monk, was teaching that man was born free of sin, and that deeds, more than grace, earned one a place in heaven, although grace helped. Good pre-Christians, unbaptised babies, and non-Christians, would be in heaven. Like many concepts, you can find both support and contradiction, in the Bible. Some support for Pelagian's interpretation..... OT Law/Judaism supports that you can get into heaven through your good works. This is still the belief of Judaism. Matthew 25:31-46 The Sheep and the Goats, describes the final judgement. What it describes is people being seperated by the deeds they've done. Matthew 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. Matthew 16:27: "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works." 2. Is God, if there is one, supposed to be just, or unjust? Would a just God really sentence those who hadn't even heard his teachings to an eternity in Hell? Would a just God really sentence unbaptised babies to an eternity in Hell? Would a just God really sentence the likes of Ghandi to an eternity in Hell? Gandhi: I did once seriously think of embracing the Christian faith. The gentle figure of Christ, so full of forgiveness that he taught his followers not to retaliate when abused or struck, but to turn the other cheek - I thought it was a beautiful example of the perfect man. Millie: But you did not embrace Christianity did you? Gandhi: No. I studied your scriptures for some time and thought earnestly about them. I was tremendously attracted to Christianity; but eventually I came to the conclusion that there was nothing really in your scriptures that we had not got in ours, and that to be a good Hindu also meant I would be a good Christian. Would a just God really open the gates of Heaven to the early Trinitarians, who forced other Christians to follow their ways, or be punished by banishment or death, and murdered thousands? Would a just God really open the gates of Heaven to those "Christians" of the Inquisitions, who murdered tens of thousands? Would a just God really open the gates of Heaven to a "Christian", like Hitler, whos Holocaust was born from the writings of Martin Luther and the practices of the Inquisitions, and who murdered millions? 3. Jesus criticized talking, or acting, falsely...simply in an attempt to earn a spot in heaven. He outright stated that many who claim to be Christians, won't make it, especially the rich. So, just be a good person, for the sake of being good, and everything should work out, just fine for you, whether there's a God, or not. Truly care about the people, and the world, around you. Worrying about yourself, and your own salvation, too much, will only lose you points, if there is a God, anyway. Just an opinion. Peace
Sanatan, and JesusDiedForU, your last responses in this thread has been moved to another thread titled Moot Points ... They had nothing at all to do with the topic of this thread, nor were they remotely related. Please stay on topic ... HTML: HTML: HTML:
Hello Jimi, I'm not a Christian, nor have I ever been really, but I sympathize with your post so I'm going to give you a little advice. If your questioning your beliefs I say that's a good thing. Keep asking questions and keep searching for the answers. If you do believe in God then he gave you a mind of your own and you should use it. If you don't believe in God anymore, well...you still have a mind of your own, so I say use it. You may just end up strengthening your faith as a Christian, or you may end up exploring areas of thought you never considered before. Trying to understand the beliefs of others, even if you don't believe the same, can help you develop a more tolerant perspective and give you a better understanding of your own faith. Sit down and think it out. What made you question your beliefs in the first place? What can you do now that your at this point? How much of you religion have you explored? There are a lot more Christian texts then what's found in the bible. Read, broden your horizons, expand your mind. The best advice I can give you, and the one thing of this whole post I hope you read and consider( even though it may seem contradictory since I'm offering advice ) is this. Don't listen to me or anyone else, you have a mind of your own.
hmm could you please help me understand more where you are confused? The Bible tells us how to live our life. The Bible is often questioned, but as Christians we know that the Bible is true because it was inspired by God. Where are you have trouble at?
Wait ... wait ... wait ... Now you got me confused. You're using "in fact" statements here ... "as Christians we know that the Bible is true" ... "because" ... "it was inspired by God." Well, how can "you know"? How can "you know" the Bible is true? How can "you know it was" inspired by God? HTML: HTML: HTML: HTML:
:agree: 1. Voting... Roman Catholic Church leaders, in the 4th century, apparently needed to vote on what was, and wasn't, inspired by God. What was the word of God wasn't decided upon by God. It was decided upon by men. 2. Biblical Paradox... Jeremiah 8:8 " 'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? Either Jeremiah 8:8 is true, and the Bible was corrupted, or it's false, and the Bible was corrupted. 3. Interpretation... Just because you believe what's written, is true, doesn't make the interpretations of what's written, true. Evidence seems to suggest that the Trinity wasn't the original belief of Christianity. Even Newton, a devout Christian, and possibly history's leading genius, believed the Trinity was fabricated by the Roman Catholic Church. Original sin wasn't part of Judaism, and didn't become Christian cannon, until the 5th century. 4. Biblical Forgeries... Matthew 6:13, Matthew 17:21, John 5:3-4, John 5:7, John 7:53 to 8:11, John 21, Mark 9:29, Mark 16:9-20, Luke 3:22, 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, Revelation 1:11 5. Biblical Authorship... There's a fairly strong consensus, that almost all of the Bible was really written by unknown people. So, how do you know, the Bible is inspired by God? Peace
Those are great questions Darrell... Christianity does take faith, yet not a blind faith that most of the world would suggest. The Bible has provided evidence that backs up the Bible's claim that it was God inspired. This evidence has given a solid FOUNDATION for my faith. Fulfilled detailed prophecy is what fosters this foundation. How can mere men who wrote the Bible predict the future in such detail? Without error? When one trully examines the prophecies of the Bible they will see that only a God could predict such detailed events.
This does and doesn't answer my question. It does because I asked out of curiosity where these claims come from. Your answer is that the bible is true because the bible says it is. In that case, I can write a book about anything and make claims in the book that it is true. This being the case, then you must take it as being true because you base your entire religious beliefs on a book that says it is true. It doesn't answer my question because it only displays that one believes without ever accepting what it believes in as fact or as something that can be directly experienced as fact or truth because you have given your will over to a book of paper. That being the case I can see why people see demons, ghosts, and evil spirits. Self-motivated delusions. Everything I wrote here is the truth because I say it is, and because it was inspired by God. This cannot be refuted because I wrote it and God santified it. It cannot be questioned, only taken on faith and therefore must be believed without question. You have to believe it because it is written here as such that you must believe it or you will end up in a lowly place of perdition. You now have a choice. Do you believe me, or do you believe the bible? If you believe the bible then you must believe me because I wrote it and I say it was inspired by God, which it was, so therefore I speak (or write) the truth. And unless God comes down right now and removes or erases these words then it will stand that these words are inspired by God. So now you have a new religion. Worship me, and worship God through me. This is what I see your belief system is based on. Yours, not Christianity as a whole because I have met a lot of Christians who hold Buddhist beliefs without claiming Buddhism as a belief system. The reason I say yours is because you just claimed to believe a book was inspired by God because the book said it was. This is why your statements confuse me. Do you believe in God because God actually appeared before you and gave you reason to believe in him? Did Jesus actually appear to you as a person you can touch, see, smell, hear, taste? Faith is okay up to a point. Then there comes a point where you must see what you have faith in as being the truth and drop the faith because the truth has been made known and revealed and you've experienced a direct realization of this truth. Other than that, outside of that, your just a mindless automoton following the instructions of your programming. HTML: HTML: HTML: HTML:
This does and doesn't answer my question. It does because I asked out of curiosity where these claims come from. Your answer is that the bible is true because the bible says it is. In that case, I can write a book about anything and make claims in the book that it is true. This being the case, then you must take it as being true because you base your entire religious beliefs on a book that says it is true. -"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16). The Bible claims that it is inspired by God. But to believe that the Bible is inspired by God just because it says so would be blind faith. Instead, as a Christians, I looked for the evidence to back the Bible's such contraversial claim. Like I stated in my previous post, there is evidence that the Bible's claim of divine inspiration is accurate. My faith is not blind. It doesn't answer my question because it only displays that one believes without ever accepting what it believes in as fact or as something that can be directly experienced as fact or truth because you have given your will over to a book of paper. That being the case I can see why people see demons, ghosts, and evil spirits. Self-motivated delusions. Paul said it best: Faith comes by hearing, hearing the word of God. The message of the Bible is what promotes faith. Without the Bible people would lean on their own FLAWED understanding. I have not study demons to much, but I do believe that they are more than a delusion. Christians and non-Christians experience demons. Everything I wrote here is the truth because I say it is, and because it was inspired by God. This cannot be refuted because I wrote it and God santified it. It cannot be questioned, only taken on faith and therefore must be believed without question. You have to believe it because it is written here as such that you must believe it or you will end up in a lowly place of perdition. You now have a choice. Do you believe me, or do you believe the bible? What evidence do you have to support that what was written here was inspired by God? The Bible has much evidence that most people do not know about-even most Christians. If you believe the bible then you must believe me because I wrote it and I say it was inspired by God, which it was, so therefore I speak (or write) the truth. And unless God comes down right now and removes or erases these words then it will stand that these words are inspired by God. Again ... evidence So now you have a new religion. Worship me, and worship God through me. This is what I see your belief system is based on. Yours, not Christianity as a whole because I have met a lot of Christians who hold Buddhist beliefs without claiming Buddhism as a belief system. The reason I say yours is because you just claimed to believe a book was inspired by God because the book said it was. Never said only becuase Bible says it. In a nutshell, the Bible makes a claim. I researched it. I discovered that the Bible's claim was accurate. I believe that the Bible is the word of God... This is why your statements confuse me. Do you believe in God because God actually appeared before you and gave you reason to believe in him? Did Jesus actually appear to you as a person you can touch, see, smell, hear, taste? - You sound like doubting Thomas. Jesus said blessed are those who believe without seeing. Blessed are those who have faith like a child. Yet, that is almost impossible for a human. I did research and found how God has trully guided the men of the Bible. HTML: HTML: HTML: HTML: [/QUOTE]
Orthodoxy (Torah, Dharma, etc.) says God transcends all things, thoughts, theories, definitions, etc. and, therefore, is undefinable. Being undefined is not the same as non-existent. There are other undefined things, such as the Unified Field Theory in Physics or a reliably predictive logic of human history, about whose existence even the most cynical of atheists have no doubt. If you look at your own life, you may recognize today you are aware of things that were unimaginable to you when you were a toddler. What may be unimaginable to you today may be obvious to you when you are seventy. So, obviously, the unknown exists. It is wise to recognize, however, the unknown rarely if ever conforms to one's thoughts about it. One's "known" does not and can not define the unknown. Consider what little I may know about your hometown. The limits of my knowledge probably fall far short of what you know, or need to know, about your hometown. You are not going to ask me for directions to the hospital or the library or the store or what's-her-name's house. But, of course, that information certainly does exist. So, what's the point of all this? Well, what you know may be very good. But maybe what you "know" is getting in the way of finding out what you don't know about God, or spirituality, or Moschiach, Christ, Heaven, Nirvana, Satori, Samadhi, or whatever your name for the ideal actually is. Faith is simply trust that there is always a sacred, undefined existence beyond your known horizon. How do you transcend your known? Whatever this being one calls God actually, ultimately is, what one may know is expressed as Love, Truth, Consciousness, Compassion, Wisdom, Creativity, Harmony, Unity, Transcendence, and so on. If you meditate on these and get a better idea what their essential being is, then you will realize you have always been much closer to God than you have ever thought. Peace and Love
Interesting. Because that very same book said that God breathed life into Man. So that indicates that Man ... is inspired by God. And since the book you claim to be one written out of inspiration by God was written by men, then again you're claiming that Man ... is inspired by God, since it says that God breathed life into Man. So that must also mean that whatever Man writes, says or does is inspired by God. That includes me. It seems also that even "with" the Bible people lean on their own FLAWED understanding. If Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God, and you are claiming that the Bible is the word of God. Then that means no matter what man writes or speaks it is all the word of God anyway, since man wrote the bible, and the bible is inspired by God because "All scripture is God-breathed" and God breathed life into Man. That includes me. Oh? I say you have because there a many passages written of Jesus where he was to have cast out demons, where those supposedly possessed by demons ran up to him and the demons spoke to him, and even where the disciples cast out demons ... many passages in the Bible ... I'm a Buddhist, I shouldn't have to be reminding you of this. You are my evidence. Or at least you are proposing to be my evidence by stating that the "All Scripture is God-breathed" and your "Scripture" says that God breathed life into man. And since man wrote the Bible, then this makes Man ... inspired by God. So no matter what I write, or no matter what I say, or no matter what I do, it's all inspired by God. So according to you, and according to me ... quoting my-self ... "If you believe the bible then you must believe me because I wrote it and I say it was inspired by God, which it was, so therefore I speak (or write) the truth." And again I say, "And unless God comes down right now and removes or erases these words then it will stand that these words are inspired by God." Okay ... how about this ... And to prove what I claimed above that since you stated that "All Scripture is God-breathed...", how about this ... "Genesis 2:7; And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (though I don't believe in a soul). So, your qoute along with the book you claim to be God-breathed, or inspired by God is my evidence ... or is it? Well, lets look at the evidence ... You claim that the Bible (and Im condensing the words "All Scripture" into one word Bible) is God-breathed, and according to Genesis which is a book from the Bible claims that God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, then you are giving claim that whatever I say is inspired by God because you believe the Bible to be God-breathed, inspired by God, and according to Genesis Man is God-breathed so therefore must be inspired by God. And since I am a Man (not just by gender) then I'm inspired by God, and whatever I write is inspired by God, and whatever I speak is inspired by God. Heck, my every moment-to-moment existence is inspired by God And I never said you said "only" ... So you researched what? More texts written by man? I could say something like, "Again, your claiming that Man is inspired by God if this is your answer" but since I don't know your answer, then it's a rather moot point to say something like that. We should all be "doubting Thomas'". We should all disbelieve everything we read until we have direct knowledge through experience or direct realization that what we read is true. Reading someones words in a book, and then reading someone elses words in another book claiming that words in another book are true doesn't make it true. Words ... just that ... words. And they are nothing more than a description of someone elses vision of how they see, view or perceive reality. Whether or not that reality happens to include supernatural beings (including both heaven and hell), a God, or gods. Just because you, or anyone else who happens to follow your specific view of reality, claim to conduct your existence based on the writings of other beings, doesn't necessairly make what they say true. It just means that you have given up your will and your ability to think independent to someone else. It means you've resigned your mind and will to a life of servitude as an automoton and your programmers are continually writing your life into existence. Anyway, since I am a man and man is inspired by God ... err, I mean ... God-breathed, then what I say next is inspired by God ... err ... God-breathed. You need to take a serious look at your self. You need to take responsibility for your own failings, and for all the things that go wrong in your life as results for actions that you took earlier on in this life. You need to take responsibility for your fortunes, and for all the things that go right in your life as results for actions that you took earlier on in this life. And if you choose to believe in a God, or gods, or devils or demons, then you have every right to, but you need to know why you believe in such things. Not because a book says to, but why do you (whoever is hiding behind that pseudonym) choose to believe in such things. I'm not saying it's wrong to believe in such things, but I am saying it's wrong to believe in something and not know why you believe in such things. There are deeper motivations for a belief and before you go scratching-n-sniffing the surface you should go deeper ... deeper ... deeper still. This is God speaking ... through me ... Heck, he spoke through an ass ... is not the human existence not better than that of an ass? Wrong question ... some people have the intelligence of an ass ... HTML: HTML: HTML: HTML:
If a Buddhist may use a Christian quote ... Amen !!! Actuall had to look up that word in the dictionary to be sure I was using it properly ... HTML: HTML: HTML: HTML:
Darrell, Sorry, I did not relay my information clearly enough for you to understand. For some reason, you keep thinking my only evidence for the inspiration of the Bible is the fact that the Bible says that it was inspired. However, that is not why I believe the Bible is inspired by God. Although I do believe that 2 Timothy passage to be true, I do not believe it blindy. Yes, the Bible was inspired by God just as it states, but where is the proof. Like you said... anyone could say their words are inspired by God. There are a few ways to determine if the Bible was inspired by God. I tend to analyze prophecy the most. I ask the question: "How could mere men predict the future in such detail?" Yet, there are other ways that point to divine inspiration. Here is a decent website about some inspiration evidence: http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html In regards to demons, yes there are many stories about demons in the Bible. But again just because something says something does not mean it is proof. I would ask the question, "Has there been any demon experiences in the modern day?" My father has had many experiences with demons. Infact, I believe his experience's with demons when over 25 years ago truly shaped his Christian life today.
I feel like stories in the Bible are "inspired" in the way that some one had a thought but wasnt actually spoken to by God but think that it was from God. So they wrote about it. And the stories in the Bible a lot of them sound like theyre just made up fables to teach a lesson. I just hate saying thinkgs like this because Ifeel like if Im wrong and they are all true stories then Im committing blastfamy and speaking directly against God. But even the descriptoin of heaven/hell seems like a boring olden day description. Think about it, streets of gold, doors of pearls.. it just sounds like what would some one 2000 years ago think the greatest city ever would look like. I myself, just can't even picture heaven as a city, I think its different than that. Maybe the stories are true I dont know I wasnt there, that doesnt mean God doesnt want them in there because no matter what you think they do have good meanings. Personally, Ive had dreams of things that seem God inspired, they really do, but I dont know if they are or if its just my own imagination or whatever makes dreams. RELIGION IS SO CONFUSING I KNOW that theres a God though. I just dont know if theres a heaven/hell or if there is how you get there or what!
