Irony and a Rant...

So 2 weeks ago my BF and I went to the moutains...It was so pretty up there...It was a long drive...We had been following this white bronco...I'm pretty sure they were driving up there because it's so pretty...But in the middle of the drive...The dumb broad sitting on the right threw out a styrofoam cup...That pissed me off to no avail...Why destroy this beautiful peaceful place???The animals everything...I don't understand...Why even go up there if your going to litter...There's a garbage can up there...Unless of course they were to lazy to walk 2 feet to throw stuff out...Doesn't make sense...I think there should be tougher penalites for those individuals that litter...

 

I guess there's irony in going for a long drive and then talking about destroying this beautiful peaceful place.

not trying to be rude, but that's the first thing that came to mind

 

Consider a deeper irony;

If city people (i.e. most of us) didn't use resources to go to the beautiful wild places (and litter a little while there), they wouldn't care about wilderness and there would be less of it.

 

it straight up pissed me off...i didn't destroy this beautiful land...it was someone ahead of us...we would have stopped n picked up the trash...but on the road we were on...there was no place to pull off...but my BF and i were both pissed off...if you want to trash this place...stay home and don't come out...ppl like this...are the main reasons we have global warming and such...

 

You do realize that even driving up to these places and a human presence has a negative effect on the ecology. Throwing out a styrofoam cup is just a matter of degree.

 

I disagree. If one decides to view the countryside, one must use resources to get there. If one decides to get rid of a coffee cup, there are options.

Perhaps I would be better understood if I show where the decisions are made.

[decision]"Let's go see the trees" - Use gasoline

"Let's get rid of this cup" [decison] Out window
as opposed to
"Let's get rid of this cup" [decison] Into gas station trash can

Gas use is the result of choosing a goal. The cup out the window results from a (poor) choice of methods.

 

Do I care if she goes up there? No. But such moral indigination is at the heart hypocritical.

They block off old forestry roads for a reason.

 

ok...who said it was a blocked rd? and 2nd of all there is a rd that leads to the sandias...and do u drive...or do u walk everywhere???have you ever taken a scenic drive???just to have it destroyed by the rudeness of someone littering???yes, cars aren't best for the enviroment...i will agree to that point...but y make things worse by littering???

 

I never said it was a blocked road. I implied that they decommision forestry roads because ANY human interaction with nature has a negative influence.

And of course I drive. But I don't make such a huge deal about people littering while at the same time I'm needlessly harming the environment. It isn't the fact that you drove up into nature that bothers me, it's the self-righteous hypocrisy of condemning the litterer.

It's like feeling superior to a murderer because the guy you stabbed in the back survived.

 

Every human interaction is with nature.

Rather than picking at each other about purity, gentle education where needed and awaress of our own choices would be more useful.

(I remember a story about specks, logs and eyes, but am I not sure if a story from that source would be well received.)

 

not to sound rude but you're insulting this woman for littering while you're driving? try walking... then go ahead and insult them.

 

I could handle simply having people only bitch when they aren't being hypocritical, actually.

 

we live in a pretty car dependent society. it shouldn't be that way, but for now it is. those who take steps to reduce or eliminate their driving are comendable, but you can't assume anything about this person just based on the fact that she said she was in a car. you don't know how much she drives, what type of car she drives, how she drives, or how often she seeks alternative methods of transportation. all we know if that the time of the incident she described, she was in a car.

driving is very often unncessary, and should be kept to a minimum.

littering is ALWAYS unnecessary, and is ignorant and wrong every time.

i see what you guys mean, but i think you're assuming a lot. i also think it was unneccesary to dedicate an entire post to the fact that you observed someone littering. littering is stupid, and people shouldn't do it.but then again i just spent a few minutes making my contribution to the post, so who am i to say.

we all see trash every day. if it bothers you, you should 1) not litter 2) pick up litter that you see. that's what i try and do atleast.

 

So we are supposed to stop flying, driving, and boating and go back to horse drawn buggies and sail boats?

As for littering that's just lazy and ignorant. The one that gets me the most is peopel throwing cigarettes out the window or tossing them on the ground-how did that ever become acceptable?

 

forgive me if i'm out of contexting you, that is not my intent, but yes my knee is jerking every time i see what appears to be a claim that these are the only possible alternatives to the use of combustion and nukes. not that the above would have to be all that hard to live with if we end up with that being all there is. but the real ignorance is to pretend that without burning oil, coal, atoms, or anything else, we would have to.

and of course there remains as always the minor little detail of do you want there to still be life of any sort on planet earth in another hundred years if that long.

wind, solar and hydro are all proven, reliable and, if deployed intelligently, environmentaly harmonious. there is no other obstical to their replacing the use of combustion then politics and brainwashing.

yes there might not be as much energy as cheeply to go arround. that's going to be the case sooner or later anyway, as non-self-renewing consumables are used up. but there's no reason, with every rooftop shingled with photovoltaics, every windy hilltop bristling with windmills and every dam turning generators, everyone couldn't still have a refrigerator, a personal computer connectied to the internet (or a vilage lan connected to a regeonal wan, and so forth, with perhapse a far less rub goldberg protocal that that of our existing internet), and some kind of narrow gauge multiple unit stored or other none combustive propulsion source 'railway', and some place to board it, within easy walking distance (less then a half mile) of their own front door.

=^^=
.../\...

 

How do you travel? How do you store your food? You have a pc so you are on the net.

I admit there are other alternatives-the fact of the matter is that the majority of people are going to keep doing what they are doing because it's there. It's hard to change it.

Littering on the other hand is something everyone can have ownership and accountabilt over if people wouldn't be so lazy.

 

Just reread your post and to be honest you do make a good point-now how would you suggest implementing change? You are right about politics-and not just government politics-as we both know politics=money and money=power and that is where the struggle for what is right and good is often ground to a halt.

Looking forward to discussing this and more with you-sorry if I came off as an ass before, I was obviously in a bit of a defensive mood that day.

 

on a sorta funny side note, a while back i went to the sand dunes with some friends, in southwest colorado. we were all camping and stuff. back then i was a smoker, but having been raised in desert situations where a single cigarette can set off a conflagration that covers thousands of acres, not to mention the ickiness of butts on the ground everywhere, i always had a water bottle in my car that i used to collect the butts. anyway, i was at the sand dunes, smoking a cigarette. there was this man standing there, making a point to glare at me the entire time, just HANGING ON TENTERHOOKS for me to throw my butt on the ground so that he could chew my ass in righteous indignation. lol. but i had my handy water bottle, full of butts to triumphantly wave at him and keep the butt. sometimes that self righteousness just makes you a dick.

 

When I see that same thing, I get mad.

How hard is it to throw it on the car floor than trash it when you get home.

Many of our state parks & forests have no trash facilities,
signs say:
"Carry in, Carry out" Probably to save money and perhaps to keep racoons and bears out of the garbage.

Don't look for a garbage can, bring it home.

 

If city people (i.e. most of us) didn't use resources to go to the beautiful wild places (and litter a little while there), they wouldn't care about wilderness and there would be less of it.
......................................................................................................

You do realize that even driving up to these places and a human presence has a negative effect on the ecology. Throwing out a styrofoam cup is just a matter of degree.

........................................................................................................

In the old days our state parks and forests were largely donated to public use
by very wealthy famlies, ( Rockefellah, Harriman )
Now-a-days State goverments are purchhasing properties by voter bond issues and property taxes. Good.

If my dough is being taken to buy public land, I'd like to be able to access it.
wouldnt mind seeing a picnic area and will support mountain biking.

I have no prob with banning All terrrain motorvehicles.

Would like to see many people using our parks and forests.

This is a great outdoor orginization to check out.

www.nynjtc.org