Could you forgive your lover of.......?

I've never been in this situation, so I can't honestly answer. My father went to prison for most of my life for attempted murder and I was willing to forgive him. Considering that he shot someone in the head and gave up his chance of raising me and I still was able to forgive him for it says alot. On the flip side, he hasn't changed. He is a sociopath and doesn't feel that he was wrong to shoot someone over 25 bucks. When I realized he hadn't changed, I stopped communication with him. But I had been willing to try.
As for someone else who has committed murder or rape, I don't know. I know a guy that shot someone once and I'd met him a long time after it'd happened and he'd changed. It was when he was younger and thought being in a gang was cool. He says now he realizes how retarted that was and is glad that he didn't actually kill someone. But he could have.
As for rape, this is a tough one for me. I had a cousin who was 11 that tried to rape me when I was 5. I forgave him because I didn't feel like he was trying to hurt me but that he was having all these hormones that he didn't understand. Like a child playing with a gun when they do not understand that it can kill or what death is, I don't think he realized the harm he could have caused me. If it is an adult that raped a child, I'd have huge issues with that. In a fit of rage you can kill someone so quickly that it's over before you thought about it. Say someone is trying to harm your child you might attack them and kill them out of defense. But there is no reason that an adult can rape a child without having time to think about what they are doing.

 

That is up to the person to judge for themselves, not me.
God bless you

 

I could forgive them assuming they had felt truly sorry, offer my support & help them get help

I've thought about it before and I could forgive someone who raped me, or tried to hurt me, etc. but I could never trust them. I know this is not what the question is asking but I'm saying this to confirm my willingness to forgive others.

Assuming I'd forgiven the person, and they've even gotten help, would I want to be involved with them romantically anymore? No chance. It would change the relationship in such a significant way that I can't even imagine. There would be a major trust issue. Much too major.

Now that doesn't mean that the truth isn't better than living a life of lies. I can't imagine it's easy to live with yourself if you had done something so awful AND hid it from the people you loved. Fess up to your past. No matter what the consequences of fessing up will be, it WILL solidify that you have become a bigger man and are willing to get help for your problems.

I would, in fact, be able to respect the person much more if they told the truth than if they kept their dark secret under wraps.

Anyone else care to add anything?

BTW, off topic, SoaringEagle- you usually say the most kind, intellegent things. I hope to have a mind as strong as yours as my life progresses forward.

 

Weather or not I would be able to "forgive" that person would be a moot point as far as I'm concerned. Regardless of my amount of love or forgiveness twards a person I would be smart enough to realise that ANY further contact with that person would be harmful and negative for ME....atleast emotionally. I would not be prepared to sacrafice my mental, emotional, or physical well-being to give "support" to a person who is so unhealthy that he would rape or murder someone else. My father is an alcoholic NPD who is violent because he was abused by HIS father. My mother is a co-dependant/depressive because of living WITH my father. My brother is a violent drug addict who has been accused of molestation BECAUSE of the neglect/abuse from BOTH our parents. Will I be able to forgive them for how they damaged me? At some point. Do I feel pitty for them? Sure....BUT that doesn't mean I am going to blindly expose myself to them when it hurts ME. I won't sacrafice myself for them....no matter how sorry they are, how much "help" they have gotten, or how long it's been. I would feel the same way about a lover who harmed ANYONE.

Breaking up wouldn't be about punishment or lack of love/forgivness.....it would be about realising that I am not prepared to take on & absorb this persons unhealthy turmoil.....and that I can not be a healthy person with a rapiest or murder in my life.

 

Right. Exactly how I feel.

 

sininabin contemplated rape molestation & murder for a good 6 months or a year before committing such acts
in his 1st thread i specificaly told him to concidedr how every action would effect how any future love would feel towards him.. i told him, rape & murder would guarantee him a life of misery & loneliness,yet he proceeded..
now..his love... is his underage cousin..she is in danger from him..if he cares..has any feeling at all.. he will turn himself in to protect her & every1 else

 

i could forgive anything. and i mean anything, if the person is a different person now. i have seen people be completely changed, like no remnant of who they were before, except they have the same face and name. if the person knows what they did was wrong, and they have changed completely, then if god can forgive, who am i to withold it?? and i have forgiven like this before. one of my friends, a guy who i was seeing at the time, confessed to me that he had murdered someone, but the case had been thrown out because of lack of evidence. but he sees how wrong he was. and maybe i'm naive, but i believe he changed. and we're not together anymore, but still really good friends. we just decided we weren't the right mix. but forgiveness is the best thing to have, and the best thing to give away.

 

i truly believe that the only way that someone can rise up to the place where they will never commit whatever act they feel guilty for again is by admitting what they have done that they feel guilty for. in other words - in order to ensure that you are not that person anymore you MUST openly admit and/or fess up to what you have done.

the problem is that most people are NOT as understanding as i am and will most likely hold it against you. but you have to try- the good thing i guess is that if the girl you admit to runs to the police they will most likely laugh at her, if by chance they do take her seriously you could always say that she is just an unhappy lover looking to get you in trouble with the law. this kinda stuff happens all the time so they will believe you - there have been millions of cases where the woman makes up stories about a man just to get them in trouble.

i guess what i am trying to say is - tell her a little bit and see how she reacts, if she freaks out you know that you need to find another woman.

there is most definitely a woman out there who would be ok with your past especially if you are beyond it. the problem is that there are probably 100 woman that would hate you for every one that would love you.

i am happy to know that you are on the right track.

to answer your other question - if you know in your heart that you are a changed man then there is no need to spend time in jail. jail will never fix anything. spend the rest of your life being a good person. jail is good for keeping murderers from killing more people - what is the need to keep someone in jail who has already learned their lesson?

 

his lover is his underage cousin
read all his posts before assumming hes a good person & rehabilitated
sociopaths dont change overnight because they fucked theyre cousin
he needs serius mental help & medication before hed even be safe to be around
saying i changed doesnt make u change
& if the problems a disease of the mind then only tratting that mental illness will ever cause change
you cannot just choose not to be mentaly ill

other then that your post was very well said
however i strongly urge every1 who answers this thread to read every other thread he posted before doing so
follow his thought patterns through contemplating rape & murder to carrying them out
read how hundreds tried to stop him before he hurt anyone & how coldly he choose to ignore them & rape & murder anyway
i may sound cold & heartless towards him but i assure you im not
but i do not buy that hes changed if hes put no effort into changing except by getting his underage cousen to sleep with him
is that change? or just a new angle on an old probblem

 

if what you say is true - i am not going to go looking for the proof - about his cousin then ok, i hear ya - he is not well. he needs to make better choices.

BUT- i have serious problems with people like you who think that the only way one can better themselves is with therapy and/or medication.

the fact remains that you dont understand what you are talking about - for one reason alone - you are not in his head, therefore you dont know if he is mentally ill.

committing an act of sin or whatever you want to call it is a choice - all one needs to do is never make that choice again and who the hell are you to say a person cant change overnight?

now, this is not to say that you are not right. you very well could be. the point i am trying to make is that you might be making it more difficult for him to make the right decision. why are you trying to convince him that he is fucked up? if he is i am sure he is aware. some guy on a forum will never get someone who does not want therapy to go get some... actually - NO ONE will ever be able to convince someone that they need therapy if that person dosent feel they need it. that is a decision that they must make on their own and people like you only make that a harder decision to make.

you are suggesting to this guy that he will never change without professional help, in a way you are giving him a good excuse not to change. next time he has that fucked up urge again it will be easier to give in if he thinks that he is mentally ill and too fucked up to make any good choice. maybe if he remembers what i say and realizes that he does have a choice he will make a better decision then he has in the past.

therapy and drugs are NOT for everyone.

whatever- i am sure you will never change- so go on convincing everyone that they need help(you did something similar in an lsd thread).

maybe it is you that needs the help.

there is a very good chance that this forum is all the help that guy needs to make the right choice.... and that is all it boils down to... he still has a choice - people like you should stop suggesting that he does not have a choice - and that is all you are doing by saying that he is mentally ill. you are saying that he is not capable of making the right decision. - in a way you are wishing this horrible reality upon someone... maybe there is something wrong with you! think about it!!!

 

I just logged back on today after inactivity for awhile and never read this post;

very kind. Looking back almost less then a year ago I remember back then. It sometimes doesn't feel real.

The buddist guy had good advice though it's quite a stretch to believe in Karma.

It's odd looking back i ususally don't becasue you can't change what happened or didn't. Sorry if i kicked up a dead thread but they posts were mostly insightful. I guess I'm better off since then, though reading the old world doesn't put mind on ease.

 

for me it is not a matter of forgiving the past, but whether or not the offending behaiviour has ceased. perminently. and stays that way. whatever that offending behaviour may happen to have been.

some things people sometimes do, require, for the health and safety of the rest of us, that they be denied the opportunity of doing them again. that is what jails are for. though this may not always be the best way of going about it. often though, it is an essential and unavoidable one.

whether we forgive them in our hearts or not.

and there's no good reason not to forgive anything. as long as that forgiveness does not allow or encourage any means of repeating any sort of REAL offence, one that truely endangers the survival of others and the well being of the kind of world we all have to live in.

even murderers are "good people", who none the less need to be denied the opportunity to repeat their offence, for the safety and well being of the rest of us.

i think what we need to not tollerate, is on going aggressiveness, billigerance, all that sort of thing, whatever beliefs, idiologies or anything else is used as an excuse or even motivation for it.

and i think we need to be very careful in this to not become prejudiced one way or anyother about beliefs, idiologies and so on, but rather and only, to concern ourselves with preventing the causes of suffering.

=^^=
.../\...

 

You don't have to, nor need to believe in Karma (p: Kamma). Fact of the matter is you don't have to believe in anything, just understand and become mindful of your actions.

Christians believe in kamma, though they have a different approach to this understanding ... sowing what you reap.

If reading about the old world doesn't put your mind to ease, then quit dragging it around with ya. Let it go. That's it. It's in the past and nothing can be done about the past. Something can, however, be done about the present moment.

Just let it go.

Stop craving it ... clinging is a result of craving. Once you stop craving it, the clinging ceases.

HTML:

 

there is but one answer to those questions posed........
one must always face the consequences of one' actions....whatever they may be.

 

Told you man, i remember when you were posting all that violent crap and people wanted to call the police, i told you one day you'd have a partner and you'd wish you'd never been a scum bag.

EDIT; i should have read through this, didnt realize that i'd already posted what i just posted this post... also i can't believe that you dont actually want pennence for that shit... soaringeagle is spot on, you need serious professional help... at the moment i really think the best thing would be serious institutionalization.... i have never ever thought that a solution for anyone before...

 

i believe you can forgive for anything. You should forgive people for what they have done wrong, and help them do things right.

'love them for the right and do not judge them for the wrong' is a quote i remember too well.

I dont believe humans are that important that we should find the need to feel above forgiveness. We shouldnt judge or punish or anything. Thats the job of the almighty. You just gotta forgive people and be there to help them. The world would be paradise if everyone stopped trying to see the earth through mirrors.

one love!!!! not 'some-love, some not-love' its ONE LOVE!

 

You break the implied and accepted social contract and there should be consequences.Break a window-you pay.Break a car-you pay.Steal-you pay.Rape-you pay.Kill-you pay.---------Now--forgivness has nothing to do with paying------- HOW are YOU gonna pay??

 

I think I'm really happier person, I told her everything, and she forgives me. Though she says I need to take responsiblity, after everything I've heard here I doubted if someone could, but I assure you nice people are out there.

 

how have you taken responcibility?

 

I would be alright with murder, because things can get very complicated sometimes. Maybe alright wasn't the right word. Yes I would still love her though.

Any molestation or rape thing would be harder for me to accept. I think I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone who molests children though, regardless of whether I loved them or not.