9/11: Firefighters Describe Controlled Demolitions (10 min. VIDEO)

ok shaggie, if that's true, how come NIST themselves came out and said that the Diesel Fuel and Gas couldn't have caused the collapse and now they are looking at possible bombs in the building?

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

"The current NIST working collapse hypothesis for WTC 7 is described in the June 2004 Progress Report on the Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster (Volume 1, page 17, as well as Appendix L), as follows:

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An initial local failure occurred at the lower floors (below floor 13) of the building due to fire and/or debris-induced structural damage of a critical column (the initiating event) which supported a large-span floor bay with an area of about 2,000 square feet;

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Vertical progression of the initial local failure occurred up to the east penthouse, and as the large floor bays became unable to redistribute the loads, it brought down the interior structure below the east penthouse; and

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Triggered by damage due to the vertical failure, horizontal progression of the failure across the lower floors (in the region of floors 5 and 7 that were much thicker and more heavily reinforced than the rest of the floors) resulted in a disproportionate collapse of the entire structure.

This hypothesis may be supported or modified, or new hypotheses may be developed, through the course of the continuing investigation. NIST also is considering whether hypothetical blast events could have played a role in initiating the collapse. While NIST has found no evidence of a blast or controlled demolition event, NIST would like to determine the magnitude of hypothetical blast scenarios that could have led to the structural failure of one or more critical elements. "


I guess NIST disagrees with even you Shaggie, maybe you should do some real research before you come in here spouting your official story rhetoric. How come it's the supposed Liberals that do all this debunking of 9/11....maybe it's because they are afraid of how people like me are waking up everyone that the left and right is a fraud, and those lefties really don't like that, do they, they just want everyone to be dumb and happy and vote for Kerry. You are losing shaggie, you guys are in the past, people are waking up that both sides are a fraud, and hardcore criminals are in control of both parties. Your rhetoric doesn't work anymore...Do you feel bad coming in here and defending criminals all the time?

 

Not exactly:

9/11 WTC7 Eyewitness account of Demolition

Rescuer: "WTC 7 about to blow up"

Recorded proof of explosions as WTC-7 falls

 

Thanks Shaggie, unforunately Rat doesn't have an answer for that so he's going to ignore it.

A blatant lie. the building was quite narrow and long, a rectagle not a square, and I see a large, round mess of a pile which on some sides rides up against neigboring buildings. If 95% of it were in its footprint, the debris pile would have looked like the rectangular footprint. In other words, either get a new monitor or some glasses.

But that's kind of the conspiracy way of thinking. The WTC, which collapsed from the top down, looked 'like a CD' to google video analysts of the conspiracy movement. WTC 7, failed at the bottom, looked like a CD to the same analysts. Its pretty obvious at this point that 'looks like a CD' means whatever they want it to, just like a long and narrow rectangular building collapsing 95% into its own footprint makes a circular debris pile which extends across the street and damages adjacent buildings.

 

WTF? How the hell did you read this and conclude the NIST thought fire couldn't cause the collapse?

 

"This hypothesis may be supported or modified"

Yes pepik, if you can read, that means that their reason for WTC7 falling is a "Hypothesis" that can be modified, and even NIST themselves said it had a low chance of probability. Then they go on to say, after saying it could be modified:

"NIST also is considering whether hypothetical blast events could have played a role in initiating the collapse."

 

Yes that was their preliminary conclusion. They hadn't even done a major study at that point, so of course its a hypothesis - unlike conspiracy theorists who think watching google video and speculating is "fact", the NIST actually does proper science and calls things hypotheses when that is what they are.

And they promised to look at the bomb theory since the conspiracy theorists got so worked up about the WTC 1 and 2 story report (which they never read). They are giving the theory, for which there is no evidence, the consideration conspiracy theorists are demanding.

I don't get it - they said EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what you claimed - they said the current theory is that fire and debris caused the collapse and there is no evidence of explosives - and you think this support you?

Why are you lying about what they conclude and then copying and pasting quotes that contradict your lies 100%?

Where is this "low chance of probability"?

 

FEMA's Report on WTC7 states:

http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf

"The specifics of the fires in WTC 7 and how they caused the building to collapse remain unknown at this time. ... the best hypothesis has only a low probability of occurrence. Further research, investigation, and analyses are needed to resolve this issue."

But then NIST says that the FEMA-ASCE report determined the "probable failure mechanisms." When FEMA themselves said their BEST hypothesis has a low probability of occurence.

 

The report reaches a preliminary conclusion that structural damage from the collapsing WTC and fires caused the collapse and that there is no evidence of explosives (both of which completley contradict what conspiracy theorists say). As for if and how the diesel fuel contributed, they aren't sure - that's the hypothesis they are having problems with, as I understand it. Shaggie will have to answer that one.

Keep in mind you are reading the preliminary report, subsequent reports in 2004 and 2006 have said the same thing - fire and debris damage.

Your CD theory remains without any real evidence, logic, or support.

 

Uh...have you ever heard of blackmail? How about bribery? Maybe coercion? Not that I think pressed rat is a solid truth seeker (I don't), but there are all sorts of ways to force people into being quiet about the truth. Maybe something along the lines of "If you go forward with your information, I don't know who's going to protect your wife and children".

Edit: I just sifted through of the posts in this thread and noticed toward the end when confronted with real anaylis, shaggie conveniently stopped posting here. I hope he researches a little term called "cognitive dissonance". I think it applies to him very well.

Please listen to David Ray Griffin on any google video. The man speaks reason like nobody's business.

 

Uhh... that would explain why nobody ever squeals on the Mafia or drug lords. Except, of course, they do. Guess you didn't really think that one through, did you?

And if anyone takes Griffin seriously - yes, I'm talking about you people, the ones who take the word of a professor of philosophy on engineering questions - you might want to read this. It is a hilarious account of what happens when you start digging into the "research" behind Griffin's theories.

http://www.jod911.com/There_Are_No_Missile_Defenses_at_the_Pentagon.pdf

 

Hey Pepik, if you're a counterintelligence agent, and I believe you are judging from the way you type (you have a seemingly-rehearsed answer for everything) just realize that once the truth is too obvious to deny, you will be held accountable as an "Accessory to murder after the fact". You're going to jail buddy, if you are in fact working to stop truth from getting out.

If you're NOT disinfo, then I apologize for my words and I apologize for you being such a silly little plastic humanoid.

 

Yes, I've heard about those things and I've received some threats from the 'truthers'. I know another journalist who posted about the damage to 7WTC and how it caused the collapse. He received death threats by some in the 'truth' movement. I'm not saying all in that movement are like that, but there are some sick people in the truth movement who are worse than the Bush administration. They will use any tactic they can to promote their agenda.

There are engineers that would like to point out the silliness in the claims of the conspiracy 'truth' movement but are afraid to because of the threats and harassment they will incur. Neil Armstrong still has Apollo truth conspiracy nuts camping out on his property and harassing him.

The FEMA report was shortly after 911. Video and photos have been reviewed since then showing the damage to the south facade of WTC7.

The early reports didn't even know about the gash all the way down the south facade. Notice that the gash occurred in the same location as all the pressurized diesel fuel risers. It shouldn't come as any surprise that there could be diesel fires that weakened the building.

Accounts from firefighters and others about the damage to 7WTC:

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/accountsofwtc7damage

Some of the quotes:

"1. The major concern at that time was number Seven, building number Seven, which had taken a big hit from the north tower. When it fell, it ripped steel out from between the third and sixth floors across the facade on Vesey Street. We were concerned that the fires on several floors and the missing steel would result in the building collapsing. –FDNY Chief Frank Fellini

2. At that time, other firefighters started showing up, Deputy Battalion Chief Paul Ferran of the 41 Battalion, and James Savastano of the First Division assigned to the Second Battalion showed up and we attempted to search and extinguish, at the time which was small pockets of fire in 7 World Trade Center. We were unaware of the damage in the front of 7, because we were entering from the northeast entrance. We weren't aware of the magnitude of the damage in the front of the building. – FDNY Captain Anthony Varriale http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110313.PDF

3. [Shortly after the tower collapses] I don’t know how long this was going on, but I remember standing there looking over at building 7 and realizing that a big chunk of the lower floors had been taken out on the Vesey Street side. I looked up at the building and I saw smoke in it, but I really didn't see any fire at that time. Deputy ––Chief Nick Visconti http://tinyurl.com/paqux

4. A few minutes after that a police officer came up to me and told me that the façade in front of Seven World Trade Center was gone and they thought there was an imminent collapse of Seven World Trade Center. –FDNY Lieutenant William Melarango http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110045.PDF

5. I think they said they had seven to ten floors that were freestanding and they weren't going to send anyone in. –FDNY Chief Thomas McCarthy http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110055.PDF

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Diagram showing that the gash on the south facade and pressurized diesel risers were in the same location. At the time of the preliminary report by FEMA, this damage wasn't known.







Gash all the way down the south facade of 7WTC.



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The Truth movement is repetitive and predictable.

For example, I predicted that when presented with a well written article on Griffin, you would ignore it and rely on ad homenim attacks.

 

download "Loose Change: Second Edition" There will be no doubt in your mind it was planned.

 

You must be joking. Loose Change is a total mess, even the creators admit it is full of errors.