White non-muslim women wearing the Hijab?

Even though I do not like it, the muslim countries today are being slightly americanized which means people are dropping the veil and disco foundations(and such) are being more available and so on. In this past summer I went to Syria(my first time) and I must say I saw something that amazed me, I saw a people who didn´t look like muslim, didn´t dress like muslim nor acted like ones. People in the streets of Damascus looked and even laughed at me for wearing proper islamic clothes(which is quite usual in Saudi) If you were to go to main town Damascus you would have to look around a bit before you see a veiled woman, in other areas the situation is quite different which pleases me alot(to know that the veil is still worn in Syria).


Say, "The truth is from your Lord": Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it): [Quran 018.029]

If they(the women) refuse to wear hijab in these countrires and rather dress in tight jeans and skirts. I will not point a gun to their head but let them(these supposed muslim women) try to find an excuse to the lord of the worlds(may he be exalted).

Tell My servants that I am indeed the Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;

And that My Penalty will be indeed the most grievous Penalty.
[Quran 015.049-50]

 

" can back up what I say using islamic sources "

please..i would love that...but i hope that u meant the Quran or the Hadeeth when u said ISLAMIC SOURCES....or even if its any website..make sure its by well known islamic scholars etc..like Zakir Naik or Ahmed Deedat...i wouldnt bother readin thru if its from elsewhere..cos then i wouldnt even regard them as islamic sources.. they are just some views/critics written by some tom dick and harry..oh yes am sure i would be amused readin them but well i think i have much better things to do..so since u seem to be knowin wat u are talkin abt am sure it wouldnt be so hard for u to quote from the Quran and support ur claim....

"islamic scripture was written by muslims"

whoever told u it was 'written' by muslims? can u support this too....? it will be much appreciated.

 

quran and haddeth


Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'



Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).<FONT face="Verdana Ref">

 

Sahih Bukhari 7.18
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry
Sahih Bukhari 9.140
Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah's Apostle said to me, "You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you. I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, 'Uncover (her),' and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.' Then you were shown to me, the angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said (to him), 'Uncover (her), and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.'


<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT face="Verdana Ref">Sahih Bukhari 5.236.
Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

 

Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151
Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

Sahih Bukhari 5.234
Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4915, also Number 4915 and Number 4915
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 90
Narrated Aisha:
When the Prophet married me, my mother came to me and made me enter the house (of the Prophet) and nothing surprised me but the coming of Allah's Apostle to me in the forenoon
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3311
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.

 

all these as you know are mainline islamic sources


we have a man of 54 who dreams of a child of 6 or younger wrapped in silken cloth
then marrys her at six she is playing on a swing and with dolls she doesnt know whats happening as she says nothing was a bigger surprise than the prophet coming for her

if mohammed was alive today he would be in jail and in my country he would have to be kept seperate from the other criminals because they would try to kill him

is this the sort of actions thats god would choose for a prophet , are criminals wrong to beat up people who have sex with children ?
is it best practise for a man of 54 to marry a six year old mohammed died when aisha was 18 because mohammed made it a rule that his former wives were not allowed to remarry she lived the rest of her life alone

much of the most important haddeth comes from the accounts of aisha if you wish to dispute these haddeth thats fine by me because all that does is put in question everything else in haddeth especially the ones attributed to aisha

 

oh and when it says 9 years old its actually 8 and a 1/2 because at that period you had less days to the month than we have today

Sahih means that the haddith is (Sound). This name is given to the absolutely faultless hadith, in which there is no weakness either in the chain of transmission (Isnad) or in the text (Matn) and in which there is no tendency to contradict any established doctrine of Islam.

I will go on to the other points when you have had time to consider the peodophilia question

 

hey johnny........mind what you say alright. if u dislike islam, just keep ur mouth shut. u don have to insult it. it doesn't take much time for me to insult u back. becoz of ppl like you, this world is not a safe place to live in. so what if u had lived in a muslim country, u had muslim friends or whatever reasons u give. what right do u have to criticise any religion. you said if prophet was in your country, they will jail him. i TELL you now, if you were in my country,they will jail u for slandering islam. you are only doing others favour, when u learn how to respect other religions and races. u are a free thinker, no wonder you don even know how to respect others! because you have no source to learn humanity. you have no life man. i know u are purposely making islam a debatable issue as you have already stated that your 'target' is islam.you have no qualification to rebuke anything. you have already viewed all religions from a negative aspect, so obviously whatever sources you take ur explanation from, you only take those which are for ur own convenience and even when u view it, you view it from negative point. the way u think is already wrong, of course the way you reason out will be wrong. i tell you i'm not qualified to answer your stupid questions but pose this to highly qualified islamic experts, i would tell u if they have any hope in you, they will answer you back the way that u will feel ashamed to face god again(provided you have any shame). if not, they will just ignore you. becoz it is no use explaining to a person like you who only wants to hold on to his views without any strong basis.don think they don have any evidences.just that ur brain has not developed yet to perceive anything they say. no one will take you as doing favour to them by just claiming that islam is a fake religion with your discriminating reasoning.in fact, i find you very pathetic including your friends who have fallen out their faith. all of you have chosen the wrong paths. when someone is asking about hijaab, you are waiting for the chance to attack islam. thanks for informing us what your goal is because now we know that you ppl are not sincere in finding out the truth. you people just want to criticise anything that you ppl hate by manipulating the facts and meanings. that is what u ppl are good at. go and do something more worthwhile.you keep harping on the hadith that prophet married aisha at her tender age. whats wrong with marrying someone at tender age especially when it could be acceptable at that period of time? those generations were different.if it was a crime at that time, they would have sentenced him at that time. even though he married her at young age, how did you know that she did not attain puberty at that time. the marriage was taken place with aisha's father pernission. did aisha herself come and tell you that she was forced into marriage? nothing in those hadiths show any disapproval for this kind of marriage. it is not as if he raped the gal without anyone's knowledge? please be more logical.it is only your own beliefs and negative thinking make you view those quotations in that way. go and find the real meaning behind those hadiths.i don wish to tell you even if i know.go and find out yourself if you are really sincere. go and seek a learned man and not any muslim you see.like how there is good ppl and bad ppl, there are gd muslims and bad muslims. when u want to learn maths you look for maths teacher, not maths student. likewise you should seek a learned man who knows abt islaam. not any tom, dick and harry u can find when they are only muslim in namesake and are still learning abt islam. anyway you make yourself look stupid by arguing back like that. not only that, you are the sick one who only thinks about the fact that he married her at a young age. all this is logical. you chose to to view it in a disgusting way. compared to you, i think everyone with their religion is better off. you, without religion, is behaving more like an animal. people with religion are living with humanity due to proper guidance. i can't help but write this way to an inconsiderate, disgusting,lame wild beast. hope ppl will not be brainwashed by all his stupid reasoning and start hating one another. let us all respect one another regardless of race, religion, nationality,colour. that is what all our religions have thought us. no religion has told us to humiliate another religion. so let work together to make this world a better place to live in. by the way he explain things, i'm sure you all agree that johnny is trying to prove the false to be true. first he targetted on christianity now he targets on islaam. he will still continue like this untill he changes. All we can wish is that god prevents more johnny to be turning up in the world.anyway nish..no use explaining things to this type of ppl. no matter what you say or do, this ppl will always view it in a negative, anti social way.johnny u better give respect, then only you will receive respect. try being nice to everyone and that is what u will get back. if you are nasty to others, ppl will of course be nasty to you. iif u really have any humanity, the next time you write something in this forum, you will write in such a way that it will not hurt anyone in anyway. if not, i'll leave this to other ppl in the forum to judge you. remember you will be judged by what you do. ...........SOMEBODY PLS GO AND TEACH THIS FELLA SOME MANNERS!!!

 

another thing johnny.......you can question us.......and we may not give the answers that you will agree becuse you will never be satisfied with that. But you can't question god, it is his will and his wish that things have to been done in this way and this manner.you can't judge whether god's action is right or wrong. you must understand that whatever Prophet did, he did acc. to God's wish and by his order. he just simply carried out his orders. some of the things that prophet mohd. has or have done are simply the priviledges given to prophet by god. you failed to understand another part. how much the no. of priviledges god has given to his prophets is much less than the, he has given them more hardships and trials.read everything properly before you bombard like that. everything is predestined by god. thats why insulting prophet mohd s.a.w is like insulting god himself. insulting the prophet's actions is like insulting god's words. if that was the case, when adam made the mistake of eating the forbidden fruit,why did god made him a prophet? it is all for a reason. but prophet mohd. is not like that. he did not make any mistake and yet you are accusing him of something he isn't. even u wrote that, prophet saw two dreams, and in that dreams he saw aisha. these are signs of god to prophet that he will have to marry her. that is why he said, if this is Allah's will, it must happen. because no one can prevent what god has decided for us just like when our time comes, we cannot prevent our death. the same thing goes for all hadiths and islamic verses in quran. don ever misinterprete the meanings of these quotations on your own. find out the meaning from a reliable learned person. then only u will be convinced. when u ask ppl who are still learning abt islam, they will find it difficult to explain. obviously, you will not be convinced and u will continue insulting this way. so think abt what i say and change your approach.unless you are 100% sure of what u know, don say or write anything. thats all i've got to say. hope to see the change in you........change meaning to respect others of their religions not necessary you must accept them. just don hurl offending words will do. take care bro...

 

in much of the islamic world its illegal to point out that mohammed was a pedophile or a rapist or a torturer so no wonder you think so highly of him

" i TELL you now, if you were in my country,they will jail u for slandering islam."

slander is when you say things that are not true about someone, Ive not called mohammed a cannibal (which would be a nasty thing to be) because there is no evidence that he ever ate human flesh
if I said he was a cannibal that would be slander

I see no reason why I should not say the truth about someone just because he claimed to be a prophet

Ive been posting on faithfreedom.org for a couple of years I dont agree with everything on the site but so far no islamic expert as come along and disproved the basic points it brings up about mohammed

years ago I used to be very religous I was never a muslim, but I know what its like to believe in a prophet I actually met mine. what made me come to the conclusion that he was a fake was looking at scripture and seeing lower morality than I would expect from a god

I see the same thing in islamic scripture if you see worse ethics in a religion than you would normally follow its unlikely that the religion is from god

 

why don u take a look at the phrases printed in green rather than focusing on the red ones.in actual fact, you are contradicting yourself by showing us these evidences. if you look at the sentence as a whole picture, then only u can see the real meaning of it. so far i've never seen anything that mention in these quotations that his actions are taboo to society or unacceptable or of any crime. they are also not subjected to any form of disapproval.



Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151
Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)



if he only viewed her as a sex object would he have let her played and let her play with her playmates. he was understanding and did not demand anything from her. also, look at the phrase at that time, if it was possible that dolls were allowed at that time but not now acc. to islam. isn't it possible that this marriage was accepted in the society at that time, and is only considered unpreferrable and unacceptable now.





Sahih Bukhari 9.140
Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah's Apostle said to me, "You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you. I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, 'Uncover (her),' and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.' Then you were shown to me, the angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said (to him), 'Uncover (her), and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.'



Allah's apostle only said that this must happen if that is from Allah. He did not marry her on his own accord. this just shows that he is obeying Allah's order and he wants and is eager to carry out HIS order whatever it is.



Sahih Bukhari 5.236.
Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.



in fact, he did not marry aisha soon after the death of his first wife. he went to Medina to recover from his loss. so many things happen during that period. If i'm not wrong, Aisha was gift to prophet to console him and so that his duty as prophet will not be affected. but the thing is he did not go abt finding for another spouse soon after his first wife death. and acc. to the previous hadith, it was the will of Allah that prophet was to marry Aisha(ra).



Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151
Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)



once again, he did not oppose aisha of playing toys with her playmates. he encouraged them to play.

 

Sahih Bukhari 5.234
Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age



this shows that this kind of marriages was acceptable at that period of time and is indicated clearly by the women wishing aisha with Allah's blessing and good luck. if it was a taboo issue, you wouldn't have seen these women greeting her in this manner. they would have oppossed it.





Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 90
Narrated Aisha:
When the Prophet married me, my mother came to me and made me enter the house (of the Prophet) and nothing surprised me but the coming of Allah's Apostle to me in the forenoon







she was surprised not shocked!!! surprised is in a happy way, pleasant way not in a frightening way.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4915, also Number 4915 and Number 4915
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter



there you see, she was not forced into marriage. she was happy all along even after her marriage. if u find these hadiths by aisha to be sound, then u have to agree that, if she could write so much info abt prophet and her, then she should also could have expreseed any dislike, opposition,or even slight discomfort in her marriage to the prophet. in contrary, she was delighted.





Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter



Prophet s.a.w married Aisha r.a when she was 6 or 7, he only cohabit with her or consummate the marriage with her when she was 9. this shows that there was some grace time for Aisha and Prophet to get used to each other, to feel comfortable with each other and to be prepared for marriage life. if he wished, to exploit her, why wait for 3 yrs? think abt it.



Sahih Bukhari 7.18
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry



Prophet mohd. s.a.w asked Abu Bakr for his daughter hand after Allah has willed it as we have seen in the hadith before. Abu Bakr was confused whether of prophet's sudden proposal.Presumably, Prophet has also indicated that Abu bakr is his brother. Acc. to islam, one is not allowed to marry his brother's daughter. thats why abu bakr asked him that qtn. prophet has already explained that he is not his brother by blood but in islam. therefore, he explained that it is also lawful for him to marry Aisha since he is not her uncle by blood. Muslims regard their fellow muslims as brothers and sisters (in islam). that does not mean that they are related by blood(born of the same mum).therefore, when it comes to marriage, they are free to select their spouse. other than their spouse, family and realtives, strangers but muslims are considered brothers and sisters in islam. if Aisha was not lawful in the first place, Allah will not have accepted the marriage. After the explanation, Abu bakr agreed w/o any hesitation to give his daughter in marriage to the Prophet.



so this marriage of Prophet and Aisha was valid, made lawful by Allah, and was accepted by Prophet, Aishah, both their families and by the muslim community,society and country.

 

"slander is when you say things that are not true about someone ", yes and it is true in your sense. You have made baseless accusations of prophet.there is absolutely NO TRUTH in it You don even know what is the meaning of pedophile or a rapist or a torturer. You have NO valid evidences to prove that. I can’t take your opinion of the hadiths to be valid. So why must I accept what you say when your evidences are vague. A person is guilty when he is proven guilty. So far in the evidences you have given, there is nothing convincing enough for mr to believe you. Nothing to indicate that prophet was of low morality. He was never of a low morality. If you were to say that, you are finding fault with God choosing him to be the representative of mankind. how can that be? You are not greater than God. You can’t make better judgement than God.



Rememeber what you say….”what made me come to the conclusion that he was a fake was looking at scripture and seeing lower morality than I would expect from a god” so you are equating prophet to god which is wrong already. So ur understanding of prophet is already wrong. All muslims agree that prophet is just a man like any other mankind. The only difference between him and us is that, Allah has chosen him to be the prophet to spread islam. If god himself has appointed him, he must be of high morality.God had perfected him. Prophet is nothing like you said. So far, I’ve never seen any flaw in his character, he is one of the best mankind one can ever see and you are saying this kind of things based on your misinterpreted meanings of the hadith. Obviously, I would think highly of him.



If it is illegal to pin point any prophet’s mistake in that Islamic country, yes of couse because you have no basis and it is rude and also insulting to them. If ppl can press charge against you for slandering them, why can’t these muslims press charges against you for slandering Prophet Muhd.saw. if you had said that prophet had made mistake, it is different thing..it is like saying you have made a mistake. Ppl don press charges against you for saying that but they do press charges for slandering. And what you have been writing and thinking and saying is slandering. furthermore, you did that in a rude, insulting, hurting way. Of coz ppl wouldn’t be pleased with you. Do u like it when someone insult ur mum? Muslims put Prophet Muhd. S.a.w. at a higher positions than their mum. So how do u think they might react to your slander. I tell you once again. You’ve not pinpointed any truth in what you are saying. So don go ard slandering… you will be answerable to all your actions one day!

 

if you look in the koran its says that mohammed is



068.004
YUSUFALI: And thou (standest) on an exalted standard of character.
PICKTHAL: And lo! thou art of a tremendous nature.
SHAKIR: And most surely you conform (yourself) to sublime morality

033.021
YUSUFALI: Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.
PICKTHAL: Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much.
SHAKIR: Certainly you have in the Messenger of Allah an excellent exemplar for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much.

the koran says mohammed is someone of sublime morality , a beautiful pattern a example an exalted standard of character

we have a problem either its ok for 54 year old men to marry 6 year olds and thats not just 1400 years ago thats today because the koran says mohammed is a beautiful pattern that hes someone of sublime morality hes an example

it doesnt say this is a one off thing that its ok for mohammed to marry 6 year olds or keep and make people slaves which he also did and then at a certain period of time we shouldnt follow his sublime example

 

to jonny2mad..
why the heck do u keep sayin our Prophet...
"had sex with children"???
are criminals wrong to beat up people who have sex with children ?
he didnt have sex with CHILDREN for goodness sake..stop utterin rubbish..it was HIS WIFE..she ACCEPTED HIM...and EVERYONE ACCEPTED the marriage....all the quotes u have presented only states the age of Aisha...okie yes thats true he married her at that young age..but it was at ALLAH's order and WILL..he had the dream of her being handed over to him 3 times and only after this he proposed to her...and it was accepted..and they married..if he is wat u claim he is...he wudnt have waited til he had that dream....and i hate to say this..but if he is wat u claim he is..then there wud be evidences that he had sex with other CHILDREN..but WHERE THE HELL IS THAT??????? pls don waste time lookin for someting that is false when the truth is starin at ur face jonny...get a life.


she doesnt know whats happening as she says nothing was a bigger surprise than the prophet coming for her
ITS SURPRISE..NOT SHOCK..SHE WASNT AGAINST IT. any there are many many evidences that the Prophet played with her..like anyone wud with a little child. and he allowed her to get comfortable with him...

"in much of the islamic world its illegal to point out that mohammed was a pedophile or a rapist or a torturer so no wonder you think so highly of him"

what do u mean by PINPOINT that Mohammed (SAW) was a PEDOPHILE???? do u have evidence for this? do u even know wat pedophile means?

Defination of pedodhile : psychosexual disorder in which an adult's arousal and sexual gratification occur primarily through sexual contact with prepubescent children. The typical pedophile is unable to find satisfaction in an adult sexual relationship and may have low self-esteem, seeing sexual activity with a child as less threatening than that with an adult."
Encyclopedia Britannica, 1998

OR
[size=-1]"pe.do.phil.ia n [NL] (1906): sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object -- pe.do.phil.i.ac or pe.do.phil.ic adj." [/size]
[size=-1]Merriam Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary[/size]




<B>[size=-1]The diagnostic criteria for pedophilia according to American Psychiatric Association:[/size]

[size=-1]Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent intense sexual urges and sexual arousing fantasies involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children.[/size] </B>

[size=-1]The person has acted on these urges, or is markedly distressed by them.[/size]
[size=-1]The person is at least 16 years old and at least 5 years older than the child or children in A.[/size]

​

DSM-III-R Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, ed 3, revised, copyright American Psychiatric Association.






"In addition to their pedophilia, a significant number of pedophiles are concomitantly or have previously been involved in exhibitionism, voyeurism, or rape". (Voyeurism’s the recurrent preoccupation with fantasized or acts that involve seeking out or observing people who are naked, or are engaged in grooming or in sexual activity".

Synopsis of psychiatry, Harold I.Kaplan et al., 5th ed., pg360, Publishers: Williams and Wilkens, 1988

now u all u have to do is see if our Prophet (SAW) fits with the above criteria..i will help u with this..

[size=-1]With the above criteria of a pedophile in mind, lets analyze the lifestyle of the prophet and his marriages.[/size]

these are the names of Prophet's (SAW) wives...in brackets is the age they married and their 'status' then.
Name of Bride
Khadija bint khawilad (40)-->Twice widowed before
Sauda Bint Zama (50)-->Widow
Aisha bint Abu Bakr (9)-->Started living with the prophet at the age of 9.
Hafsa Bint Umar bin Khattab (22)--> Widow
Zainab bint Khuzaima(30)
Umm-I-Salma bint Abu Umayia(26)--->Widow
Zainab Bint Jahash (38)-->Widow
Juwaeria Bint Harith(20)-->Widow
Umm-I-Habiba bint Abu Sufyan(36)-->Widow
Marya Qibtiya bint shamun(17)-->Virgin, Egyptian
Safia bint Hayi bin Akhtab(17)-->Widow
Raihana bint umru bin hanafa
Maimuna bint harith(36)-->Widow
[size=-1][/size]
[size=-1]Widow[/size]Source: The Prophet of Islam, the Ideal Husband, by Syed Abu Zafar Zain, Kazi Publications, Lahore, Ist Ed., pg. 10-12

Statistics from the above table:



[size=-1]Percentage of his wives who were 17years and older = 91 %[/size] [size=-1]Percentage of his wives who were widows = 75%[/size]

 

so jonny2mad please think...am sure this makes sense..and should make sense to u...cos the statistics show that the prophet’s marriage to Aisha at her young age was an exception and not a norm of his other marriages. Furthermore ‘a pedophile’s main mode of sexual satisfaction is with prepubescent girls’, which is contradictory to the 91% of prophet’s marriage to women 17 years and over. An unbiased examination of Prophet’s life and his marriages to his wives blatantly rejects the notion of his lifestyle fitting that of a pedophile. All his brides were aged widows (except Aisha and Marium).

[size=-1]Moreover, according to the criteria in the references cited above in ‘Synopsis of Psychiatry’, a vast majority of pedophiles possess a history of exhibitionism, voyeurism, or rape. Again, there is no single reference from either religious or secular sources that the noble Prophet ever indulged in such sadistic behavior (God forbid). This truth is observed and accepted by both Muslims and unbiased non-Muslims scholars.[/size]




"It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great messengers of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yet I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher."

– Annie Besant, THE LIFE AND TEACHINGS OF MUHAMMAD, Madras, 1932, p. 4
so now tell me...is wat u said still valid???? u quoted from the hadeeth but then again wat u said abt him is UR VIEW...ur NEGATIVE view...cos the quotes u have presented shows no evidene of our Prophet(SAW) as a pedophile..and he didnt have sex with CHILDREN..it was HIS WIFE..whome he married with the consent of her father..and the marriage was accepted by everyone...in the society ..and so how can u even say its RAPE???? rape is when a man has sex with a women without her consent..i know ur adj and vocab use is good but this doesn license u to acuse anyone..in any manner...and oh well bein a free thinker and havin the view that islam should be the NEXT target that has to critised...well it just explains why ur claims are darn vague...without a good base..without a solid explanation...

thanks for the various quotes..but like wat jujunisha said u are contradictin ur own claims...i think i dont have to repeat all that she said..u can take ur time readin them...and oh yeah u can take ur time to explain to me why Prophet Muhammed (SAW) is a torturer...

anywayi wudnt be surprised if u claim that our Prophet (SAW) was involved in child abuse as well..



[size=-1]Definition of Child Abuse:[/size] [size=-1]Child Abuse, also called CRUELTY TO CHILDREN, the willful and unjustifiable infliction of pain and suffering on children. The term can denote the use of inordinate physical violence; unjustifiable verbal abuse; the failure to furnish proper shelter, nourishment, medical treatment, or emotional support; incest; other cases of sexual molestation or rape; and the making of child pornography. Frequently described by the medical profession as the "battered-child syndrome," abusive treatment of children is almost universally proscribed by criminal statutes. Child abuse can have serious future consequences for the victims involved. Delays in physical growth, impaired language and cognitive abilities, and problems in personality development, learning, and behavior are common following instances of child abuse or neglect.[/size]

[size=-1]Encyclopedia Britannica, 1998[/size]
None of the criteria of child-abuse applies to the noble life of the Prophet (pbuh). There is no single incident of any infliction of pain and suffering by the prophet on Aisha or any other human being for that matter. Neither any instance of verbal or sexual abuse can be concluded from the relationship of the prophet with Aisha ® or any of his wives.


[size=-1]An abused child can have serious future consequences…delayed physical growth, impaired language..learning and behavior…etc (above definition). As one examines the chaste life of Aisha ®, her personality, physical, mental and spiritual development are all contrary to that of an abused child. In fact through the Prophet’s marriage and his guidance to Aisha, history testifies that she should be labeled not as an abused child but as a ‘blessed child’.[/size]







<B>The Prophet (SAW) married Aisha for 3 reasons:

[size=-1]To reinforce the friendly relations already existing with Abu Bakr (his closest companion).[/size] </B>


[size=-1]To educate and train Aisha so she may serve the purposes of Islam.[/size]
[size=-1]To teach her to utilize her capabilities for the sake of Islam.[/size]
[size=-1]Her Marriage with the prophet was a Wahi (Divine Revelation). She, herself relates from the Prophet, ‘He said, "I saw you in dreams three times. The angel brought you to me and you were clad in white silk. He (the angel) said that it was your consort and he (angel) showed me by opening your face. You are just like that…" Sahih Muslim, Vol.2, p.285.[/size]



(please note this was told by Aisha...this shows that she was totally okie with the marriage....she was NOT against it...)



​

 

Aisha was born after her parents had embraced Islam. Therefore, she was free from the defilement of polytheism right from her birth.


In her youth, already known for her striking beauty and her formidable memory, she came under the loving care and attention of the Prophet himself. As his wife and close companion she acquired from him knowledge and insight such as no woman has ever acquired.

Aishah lived on almost fifty years after the passing away of the Prophet. She had been his wife for a decade. Much of this time was spent in learning and acquiring knowledge of the two most important sources of God's guidance, the Quran and the Sunnah of His Prophet. Aishah was one of the three wives (the other two being Hafsa and Umm Salamah ) who memorized the Revelation. Like Hafsa , she had her own script of the Quran written after the Prophet had died.


So far as the Hadith or sayings of the Prophet is concerned, Aishah is one of four persons (the others being Abu Hurrah, Abdullah ibn Umar, and Ana ibn Malik) who transmitted more than two thousand sayings. From her, 2210 Hadith have come, out of which 174 Hadith are commonly agreed upon by both Bukhari and Muslim. Many of her transmissions pertain to some of the most intimate aspects of personal behavior which only someone in Aishah’s position could have learnt.

(Allah has a reason for everthing...everything happens accordin to HIS WILL...and its not for anyone to JUDGE...the marriage of the Prophet was also ALLAH's WILL)

What is most important is that her knowledge of Hadith was passed on in written form by at least three persons including her nephew Urwah who became one of the greatest scholars among the generation after the Companions. It is the claim of the Scholars of Islam that without her, half of the Ilm-I-Hadith [knowledge, understanding of the Hadith (and Islam)] would have perished.

Many of the learned companions of the Prophet and their followers benefited from Aishah's knowledge. Abu Musa al-Ashari once said: "If we companions of the Messenger of God had any difficulty on a matter, we asked Aisha about it."

"Yahya related to me from Malik from Yahya ibn Said from Said ibn al-Musayyab that Abu Musa al-Ashari came to Aishah, the wife of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and said to her, "The disagreement of the companions in a matter which I hate to bring before you has distressed me." She said, "What is that? You did not ask your mother about it, so ask me." He said, "A man penetrates his wife, but becomes listless and does not ejaculate. "She said, "When the circumcised part passes the circumcised part ghusl is obligatory." Abu Musa added, "I shall never ask anyone about this after you."



Al-Muwatta of Imam Malik Hadith 2.75



Arwa Bin Zubair says, "I did not find anyone more proficient (than Aisha ) in the knowledge of the Holy Quran, the Commandments of Halal (lawful) and Haram (prohibited), Ilmul-Ansab and Arabic poetry. That is why, even senior companions of the Prophet used to consult Aisha in resolving intricate issued".



Jala-ul-Afham by Ibn Qaiyem and Ibn Sa’ad, Vol.2, p.26



Abu Musa al-Ashari says: "Never had we (the companions) had any difficulty for the solution of which we approached Aisha and did not get some useful information from her".



Sirat-I-Aisha, on the authority of Trimidhi, pg. 163

As a teacher she had a clear and persuasive manner of speech and her power of oratory has been described in superlative terms by al-Ahnaf who said: "I have heard speeches of Abu Bakr and Umar, Uthman and Ali and the Khulafa up to this day, but I have not heard speech more persuasive and more beautiful from the mouth of any person than from the mouth of Aishah."


The Prophet said, "The superiority of 'Aisha to other ladies is like the superiority of Tharid (i.e. meat and bread dish) to other meals. Many men reached the level of perfection, but no woman reached such a level except Mary, the daughter of Imran and Asia, the wife of Pharaoh."



Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith, Narrated by Abu Musa Al Ashari Hadith 4.643

Musa Ibn Talha says, "I did not see anyone more eloquent than Aisha"



Mustadrak of Hakim, Vol.4,p.11

Men and women came from far and wide to benefit from her knowledge.


Aisha’s great interest in the study of the Qur’an is understandable. She was an eye-witness to a number of revelations and had therefore a clear idea of the circumstances in which they were revealed. It was on her bed alone (and no other consort’s) that the Prophet received Wahi (Divine Revelations) several times. This helped her in interpreting the verses.

At the time of the Prophet’s death, the Prophet’s head was on her lap. It was in her quarters that the Prophet was buried.

The life of Aishah (R) is a proof that a woman can be far more learned
than men and that she can be the teacher of scholars and experts.


(can u give me a better example in life where a women is portrayed lilke this..and mind u this was yrs back when women were treated like dirt in the kitchen..islam the religion which gave Aisha with this opportunity to acquire knowledge is said/claimed to be oppressin women!! THIS IS A GREAT CONTRADICTION..i dont wish to point out but there are other religion that still treat women like shit...but oh yeah oppression to u mean donnin the hijab.. now pple are more concerned abt how muslim women have to don the hijab and not walk around half naked ..heck..ur notion of freedom amazes me greatly)


Her life is also a proof that a woman can exert influence over men and women and provide them with inspiration and leadership. Aisha (R) is a continuing inspiration and role model to today’s youth who are diligently searching for an example amongst the pop stars, movie actresses and sports stars. May the memory of her’s live forever in the heart of the Muslim Ummah and may Allah grant her the highest abode in Paradise…Aameen.


It was the aforementioned qualities of Aisha and the Prophet’s guidance in molding these capabilities for the service of Islam, were the main reasons, why the Prophet Married young Aisha , and not the perverted reasons brought forth by misguided orientalists.

Muslims invite all sincere humans to study the life of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon) in the light of the authentic sources of the Quran and the Sunnah (exemplary sayings and deeds of the Prophet) and judge for themselves where the truth lies. Indeed, by recognizing the truth of Islam as the final and complete Guidance sent by our Creator can humanity find lasting peace in this world and a means of salvation from the hell fire in the hereafter.

"I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Savior of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today."

George Bernard Shaw, THE GENUINE ISLAM, Vol. 1, No. 81936.


Though, the Prophet is not among us in his flesh, but his exemplary life has been preserved for all humanity to follow.

 

not only this jonny2mad but the weekly News magazine TIME dated july 15 1974 carried a selection of opinions by various historians writers militry men businessmen and others on the subject:WHO WERE THE HISTORY'S GREAT LEADERS?" some said that it was hitler others said Gandhi Buddha Lincoln and the like. But Jules Masserman a United States psychoanalyst put the standards striaght by giving the correct criteria wherewith to judge. he said:





Leaders must fulfil 3 functions:



1. provide for the well being of the led



2. provide a social organization in which people feel relatively secure and



3. provide them with one set of beliefs.





with the above criteria he searched history and analyses- hitler pasteur caesar moses confucius and the lot and ultimately concludes...





"PEOPLE LIKE PASTEUR AND SALK ARE LEADERS IN THE FIRST SENSE. PEOPLE LIKE GANDHI AND CONFUCIUS ON THE ONE HAND AND ALEXANDRA CAESAR AND HITLER ON THE OTHER HAND ARE LEADERS IN THE SECOND AND PERHAPS THIRD SENSE. JESUS AND BUDDHA BELONG IN THE THIRD CATEGORY ALONE.PERHARPS THE GREATEST LEADER OF ALL TIMES WAS MOHAMMED WHO COMBINED ALL THREE FUNCTIONS..."





"showing you you are following a fake and a man with very low morality"





this is NOT a man with very low morality..ur are totally blinded and well wat can i say?



i dont need some pple from faithfreedom to give me the credit for bein a muslim and acceptin Prophet as my role model..i have much better pple..with better knowledge..provin me that i am on the right path.









"think of all the non-muslims who read this thread and my friend ali sinas site and get the wrong impression of islam because muslims are unable or unwilling to prove me or him wrong"





well jonny2mad i hope ur dear frens from the ali sinas site would read this..and well if u think that NO MUSLIMS are UNABLE to prove u wrong u are darn wrong..well this just makes me wonder who u have been talkin to..but i know one thing u have not been talkin to the RIGHT people and i am WILLIN to prove u wrong and there are many pple like me around...like wat jujunisha said..its very simple..if u want to learn maths u go to a maths teacher..likewise..u want to learn abt islam..u go to reliable sources..a learnt man..and Quran cant be read just like that....there a multiple meanings to it...u are no one to judge it...cos u dont have the knowledge..its as simple as that.

 

not only this jonny2mad but the weekly News magazine TIME dated july 15 1974 carried a selection of opinions by various historians writers militry men businessmen and others on the subject:WHO WERE THE HISTORY'S GREAT LEADERS?" some said that it was hitler others said Gandhi Buddha Lincoln and the like. But Jules Masserman a United States psychoanalyst put the standards striaght by giving the correct criteria wherewith to judge. he said:





Leaders must fulfil 3 functions:



1. provide for the well being of the led



2. provide a social organization in which people feel relatively secure and



3. provide them with one set of beliefs.





with the above criteria he searched history and analyses- hitler pasteur caesar moses confucius and the lot and ultimately concludes...





"PEOPLE LIKE PASTEUR AND SALK ARE LEADERS IN THE FIRST SENSE. PEOPLE LIKE GANDHI AND CONFUCIUS ON THE ONE HAND AND ALEXANDRA CAESAR AND HITLER ON THE OTHER HAND ARE LEADERS IN THE SECOND AND PERHAPS THIRD SENSE. JESUS AND BUDDHA BELONG IN THE THIRD CATEGORY ALONE.PERHARPS THE GREATEST LEADER OF ALL TIMES WAS MOHAMMED WHO COMBINED ALL THREE FUNCTIONS..."





"showing you you are following a fake and a man with very low morality"





this is NOT a man with very low morality..ur are totally blinded and well wat can i say?



i dont need some pple from faithfreedom to give me the credit for bein a muslim and acceptin Prophet as my role model..i have much better pple..with better knowledge..provin me that i am on the right path.









"think of all the non-muslims who read this thread and my friend ali sinas site and get the wrong impression of islam because muslims are unable or unwilling to prove me or him wrong"





well jonny2mad i hope ur dear frens from the ali sinas site would read this..and well if u think that NO MUSLIMS are UNABLE to prove u wrong u are darn wrong..well this just makes me wonder who u have been talkin to..but i know one thing u have not been talkin to the RIGHT people and i am WILLIN to prove u wrong and there are many pple like me around...like wat jujunisha said..its very simple..if u want to learn maths u go to a maths teacher..likewise..u want to learn abt islam..u go to reliable sources..a learnt man..and Quran cant be read just like that....there a multiple meanings to it...u are no one to judge it...cos u dont have the knowledge..its as simple as that.

 

Never Argue With An Idiot, They Drag You Down To Their Level Then Beat You With Experience