Now its our turn.

NOTE: I posted this also in the Young Hippie/Whiners forum but thought this thread might also reach more eyes here.

Ive been reflecting a lot lately on the 60s and 70s, but also on the liberal/"hippy/counterculture movement seemingly developing today...

I don't know about you guys, but Im starting to feel "it." What exactly? Im not sure, but I feel like its getting to be our time. We're ready for this movement, we're ready to make a change, we're ready to let go of our fear and go wild.

As I reflected on the 60s and 70s, I thought about how one of the "themes", a common tune that everyone sung in the 60s and 70s, that brought the hippy revolution all together, was opposition to the war in Vietnam...

then I was thinking about what "our Vietnam" would be...and I dont think itd be the obvious (such as the war in Iraq, although that is DEFINITLEY something many stand togehter on)...

I feel like our job would be something different. Yes we are opposed to the war in Iraq, but I think what the bigger problem in our world today is not just Iraq...

its the growing space between East and West- we are told about "those Islamic fascists" and terrorists and everything, to the level where we are taught to fear Islam, and the East.

We are fighting the hate of these radicalists with only more hate...which as we know, is just as good as throwing gas on a fire.

I think our job is to build a bridge between East and West, we need to create much more understanding and tolerance...

Only then will the threat of atomic weapons getting to terrorists and all those horrifying doomday theories be ended.

We need to embrace this other culture, we need to learn, then we need to teach...we need to love them, not fear and hate them.

Tell me your thoughts.

 

"it" is definately happening, albeit at a slow pace. I have felt the need for change for quite some time, and now with this war going on, we finally have a uniting factor.

But you are absolutely correct in stating that we need to have a better understanding of their culture. And they need to have a better understanding of ours. This thing must go both ways!! But over there, they are in the midst of turmoil, and the most charismatic people who's influence a lot of these young people fall under are the Fundamentalists! If the situation was reversed, and the US was like Iraq is now, there would be masses of young people following everyone and anyone who had some sort of message of "hope". Think of Hitler pre-WWII......

This sounds so cliche, but education and awareness are probably the best tools we have to bring understanding to everyone. The media here likes to paint Islam a very bad color, but I find the real Islam a very beautiful, and peaceful, religion.

And to somewhat echo what you said up there "we are fighting the hate of these radicals with more hate..."
-why do we kill people, who kill people, to show that killing people is wrong??

These are just some random thoughts of mine on this subject.
But I think we are moving too slow....do you feel that way, too? Or are we moving at an steady, and even, pace?

 

In order to build a bridge between the east and the west you will have to do two important things first...

1) Make all fundamental Islam followers let go of their beliefs.
2) Radically change the US political system.

Neither of those are happening in the next millennia without violence.

Pretty thoughts though.

 

Building a bridge between East and West is a very laudible goal. The problem is that because of our dependence on oil as an energy source and our gluttony for energy and wastefulness in general, our governmental structure which is largely controled by corporate interests which thrive on an oil/gluttony/wastefulness economy keep us involved in the affairs of those who have the oil, namely the part of the world that is arab and Muslim. Our needless invasion of their territory has upset the lines of communication and understanding between us and them. Our culture with its driving cars, eating animal-based and junk food diets, obsession with consumer goods and the latest in style and technology and reconning our self-worth and power in terms of ownership all plays into the system which requires more and more "growth" and energy. Although the political system and mass market information outlets are heavily corrupted by the Western corporate interests, the Democratic party has more of a clue on how to deal with all these problems. Although both parties cater to the corporations, the Republicans are more solidly in their pocket. As they have been in power for many years, things have gotten very bad and may be irreversible. Therefore the best thing that you can to improve relations between East and West, besides cutting back on your personal consumtion and energy requirements, is to work very hard for Democratic candidates so we get a change of leadership. A narrow majority in congress is not nearly enough to get in control of the situation. We need a president and a ruling majority in congress as well as more state legislatures and governorships. Alternative parties are not effective in the current structure. Until the problem of leadership is solved there can never be the kind of peaceful relations you're looking for.

 

what you feel and what you reference as "it" is known as the Revolution, my brother.
most people shrug me off when i say it but, the Revolution is coming.
will you be ready?

peace, love, and revolution
=]

 

Gotta say that I totally disagree.

I think its part of your mindset- that we need to change the US political system- that is what is now holding us back from actually getting something done.

WE need to get out an do something, not just wait for the US government to do something. WE need to show the world that theres nothing to fear in the East, and that we can embrace it. Its not a matter of letting someone else do it, its about US doing it.

Its about not being cynical and unhopeful, its about not being afraid to get off our asses to do something, its about really wanting to change how things are going.

Who gives a shit if Bush doesnt listen to us (right away)? Have you guys forgotten?

WE are the people! WE are America! Bush is NOT America!

Unless we are all willing to put time and energy into our dreams for the world and aspirations, nothing will happen, ya know?

We have the time, and its a no-brainer that we all have the energy!

 

Hey Piano, I think you're right that there is a movement among the young and you're right that the timing is ripe. If the young don't become active in shaping the world, they're gonna inherit a total diaster. At my age I can look back and comment on a couple of things that really were a handicap for me. One was my own judgement problems...I often was too willing to listen to someone in my own age or peer group. You actually just addressed that in your post above. There are lots of Nay Sayers who will bad mouth your efforts while sitting on their ass trying to look pretty and cool. Learn to quickly weed these people out and move on, they aren't worth the time to mess with. Coupled with that, Learn the art/skill of knowing who to trust regardless of their age or appearance. You can sometimes find allies where you never expect them. Dream big and expect to accomplish much...if you set your goals too low, you can't expect to achieve much. Good luck and keep smiling...the world is yours to shape and hold. yarapa/steve

 

pianoperson60, have you ever read some of Benther Dondrat's posts... you should, you would like them.

 

You are an idealist, it's pretty... yet not too logical.

You have never met a fanatical muslim have you? One of them will murder you just because you're an American... no matter how much you love the East. There are way too many people in the US who are not willing to accept the Arab world, and there are WAY more people in the Arab world who are unwilling to accept the US. The cultures are way too different to interact peacefuly. The solution here would be for each to stick to their own shit, like it has been for years before the US started feelin' imperialistic.

Even if every bloody person in the US would want to hug every damn arab, even if the whole government is overthrown, shit... even if the flag is changed to that of Saudi Arabia and Arab is made into the official language... even if all of that happens... the Arab nations still will not accept Western culture.

Why do you think there's such a strong insurgency is Iraq? Do you think that people like Western ideas to be forced on them? You must realize that "Peace, love, and understanding" is also a Western idea. To the fundemental muslim... anyone who is not a muslim must be murdered... and most Arab states are ran by fundementalist governments. You do the math.

(And no, dear people who would like to point fingers... I do not hate Arabs, I understand where they are coming from... but, sadly enough they hate me with a passion just for being born Jewish, being an Israeli citizen, and living in the U.S.)

It's nice to be ideologic, and sure... keep your idealism going, you have a beautiful soul... but, sadly... there is a thing called reality... and it's out there.

 

Some people just hate others cause they're assholes

 

Wecome to earth, where 99.99999999% of people hate someone or something for truly no logical reason.

 

I think this war could stop without violence. This would cause a more peaceful existance for us all.However, it wouldn't cause peace.

BraveSirRubin is partially right. We need to change the US government, and the radical islam faith to have true peace.

What we need are some good ole' fashion guerrilla tactics. See how much hype Aqua Teen Hunger Force got?!

 

umm unfortunately you will not see the east and west understand eachother for a long time, it is pretty difficult to make someone who has been taught to hate since the time they were born that their entire way of thinking is wrong and that the ones they hate, really aren't bad. Also just changing the US government wont do too much because their governments are far worse than ours (even though ours has many many faults). I think you are right about one thing and that is what is going on in todays world is going to cause monumental change, I just dont know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

 

and the revolution may be coming but unfortunately its not going to happen through peace and many many people are going to lose their lives before it comes

 

nice thread... finally some whiners are talking about doing something

i'll talk to skip and if you guys do something like end all pollution or end the war in iraq, we'll give you your "young hippies" forum back

 

i agree we must do this............
but how??????
everything just crashes on reality....
how can we make ALL people understand???
But yeah...it's much better to be IDEALISTIC and try to do at least anything than just give up all efforts.
I choose being idealistic...i see no other way...

 

you're joking, right? That guy's posts smack of attempting cult leadership, it's like a bad ad, he just says the same two things over and over again


Back on topic... so how do we build that bridge? I'm all for religious tolerance, it's awesome, but how do you show that to another culture? How do you tell them that without coming across as condescending? And how do you keep your ass from getting killed while telling them that, because a great deal of the driving factors are still fundamentalists hating fundamentalists (in my opinion at least)

 

You see... I'm an idealist myself, which is why I realise that I cannot do anything to solve this problem. Idealism is the opposite of realism, and nothing so big can be achieved without logical rational thought.

 

Maybe he likes them, I like them as well in a way, but also found them a bit disturbing. They're too extreme and unrealistic. I can't take Dondat's posts totally serious. I'm sure he means well though.

We can't make all people understand and we also don't have to. If everyone who's thinking of peace and a better world would actually do something we would already make a big change.

Ehm, is idealism always the opposite of realism?

 

Viva la revolution.

I think a revolution would take place a lot quicker if everyone stopped looking at the Hippy movement of the 60's-70's for advice. Sure, I'd give my right nut to be a part of that movement, but we are in a different time now...and we need a different revolution. The hippy movement of decades past had no template to look back to. Hell, they probably didn't even know it was happening till it was in full swing. A revolution will happen, hell I have a revolution everyday......but we won't know what moves this revolution, or how big it will be till it's already in motion.

"Every generation needs a new revolution." -Thomas Jefferson