Did Holocaust Really Happen?

What truth??

You have not presented any actual facts. Just a bunch of pretentious opinions by other bigots(like you) who have nothing better to do in life than to post unsubstantiated and illogical BS on the internet.

Truth my ass. Go away.

 

Blah blah blah. As an apologist for racist extremists you convince no one. Please go away. You were gone for several months. You bring lots of bad juju here.

 

Topolm

The problem I have with McDonald’s work is the conclusions he so often comes to from the information that is there. To take your examples it is like someone adding two and two and coming up with five. Someone can try and explain that the answer is four but if someone ‘believes’ that the answer is five sometimes logic can’t persuade them and they will swear blind that it is five. In the same way that trying to convince people in some periods of history that the earth was round, was hard to do, because they cannot see beyond the conditioning of their society.

As I’ve pointed out bias and prejudice (belief) can lead people to reject what seems rational.

This is were the nature of truth is difficult to determine, because one persons belief of what is true may very well differ from another persons rationally based idea of what is true.

For example a creationist might believe that the world was created in six days by a god, that is their ‘truth’. They will therefore reject the ‘truth’ of rational thought involving geology and evolution.

You claim that ‘facts are facts’ but facts can be viewed differently if the bias to do so is present. For example I once had a creationist tell me that it was a “fact’ that dinosaur bones had been put in the ground by his god to test the faith of Christians as to the ‘truth’ of Genesis.

I hope that this is not your own problem and you believe only in your own version of the ‘truth’ and are therefore unable to understand or comprehend a truth based in logic and rationality?

**

So we come to your ‘foundations of Western European Civilization’ to make my point I will pick a couple of your supposed attributes, but fist up, what do you mean by ‘western European Civilisation’? Europe is a big place with many cultural roots and traditions. And if you include America that is a whole new set of traditions and culture?

**

Christianity

Europe has been unchristian a lot longer than it has been Christian. I mean Europe wasn’t ‘Christian’ just because Jesus was born. Even Constantine’s adoption of it was not a complete triumph, large numbers of the Empires people and most of the rest of Europe still remained unchristian.

Christianity for example isn’t a European religion, many of the tales in the old testament are very much based in Near and Middle Eastern myths and Christianity was just another Jewish sect until it was ‘Greeked’, that is, made more palatable to a classical audience. Christ, saints, angles etc took on the attributes of classical divinity (just look at the many saints of the Catholic Church that took on the role once occupied by gods, nymphs, etc of the ancient world). It also stole classical/pagan festivals, such as Christmas (a mixture of Saturnalia and the festival of Sol Invictus along with other pagan festivals). Even then there was great dissent and divergence as to what the teachings of Christ actually meant and a great deal of secular politics involved. Often gospels were chosen or priests and the hierarchy to gain advantage manipulated translations of scripture.

Which leads to the question of which Christianity you’re actually talking about. Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, all have differing traditions, ceremonies and agendas that cannot be seen as constituting a single foundation.

If anything the greater influence on European thought and achievement would be the classical cultures of Greece and Rome.

In art, architecture, law, engineering, mathematics, philosophy, political thought, and in many other fields, those pre-Christian cultures have been peoples starting points not the Christian Churches that was often an impediment to progress.

The renaissance was a ‘rebirth’ of classical ideas, politically leaders wanted to be associated with classical greatness (the holy roman empire, Kaiser, Tsar etc). Many classical ideas or forms like architecture have remained an influential influence right up to the present day.

But even that only goes so far there are strong influences of Nordic, Celtic Slavic and others pagan tradition mixed in European ideas.

It also has to be pointed out that many of the great names that have contributed to European and American culture have been sceptics at best or atheist when it has come to religion. The secularism of the American Constitution is a case in point. So again it is a questionable point as to how far ‘Christianity’ is a ‘founding’ attribute of ‘Western European Civilization’.

**

You would have to define what you mean by ‘free enterprise’, but I can’t think of any time in ‘western’ history when the modern idea of ‘free enterprise’ has actually taken place. The ancient world had its slave economy, the early medieval the feudal system, the later period the guilds and religious/royal edict, and the early modern the caste and patronage system.
If you just mean the buying and selling of stuff, that is not a purely ‘western’ attribute.

**

The other so called attributes could be also as easily dealt with, but I think you get may point, once you begin looking at those attributes they become less clear and more open to interpretation.

But I do find it funny that you begin the list with Christianity and end it with rationalism which seem to be mutually exclusive.

 

Topolm

I’ve made two charges –

(1) that you are racist in your outlook and methodology

(2) that you are just trying to perpetuate an old and discredited conspiracy theory.

The first could be seen to contravene the Hipforums general guidelines and the second counts against you in the Political Forum guidelines.

You don’t seem to have dealt with either charge.

Please do so.

 

1. I think you are an enabler of racism for turning a blind eye to the behaviour of a certain group. This makes you a racist suspect.
You dont appear to be working with enough tenacity to expose racism by this group. Apparently, YOU may be contravening the Hipforums general guidelines.


2. I think you are drunk on the old conspiracy theory that anyone who exposes racist Jewish behaviour does so without justification. Laughable. Completely LAUGHABLE. That is to say, you believe in the age old lie, that is believed by less and less people that this certain group, as an aggregate, has no malevolent agenda in the countries they reside in. They do. A lack of abstract reasoning and critical thinking skills on your part does not excuse you from your ignorance. Apparently, YOU may be contravening the Political forum general guidelines by not adding to the quality of the discussion.


Please Address these 2 points.

You can redeem yourself by starting to read www.ziopedia.org
A website run by a high quality Jewish human being that has chosen the path of enlightenment to expose the evil of Talmudic Judaism and its relation to Zionism.

 

Balbus, you are arguing irrelevant points. You have not addressed "The Culture of Critique's" Central thesis that Jewish led intellectual movements have been undermining the cultural/ethnic/moral foundations of European and other European derived nations such as the United States. You have not addressed his thesis at all. Instead you are arguing what constitues these fondations. Improper. I set the tone of the discussion. You follow. You want to prove me wrong on the central thesis right? Then argue it rather than hiding behind something that is tangential.

 

........................................................................................................


It was The Jews who gave us the written Bible/Torah, a remarkable cultural document from way back in the Bronze age and Neolithic age. Back when our own ancestors were "living in skins" This document allows us all to share in the intelecutual heritage of this long ago period. It constitutes the cultural/ethical/moral foundations of The West.

It was Abbie Hoffman when asked during the Chicago Seven Trial by a reporter are you guys about to take over the country? ( meaning hippies )
and Hoffman replied "Take over the Country? we cant even agree on what
to order for lunch" Such is a paraphrase of a people who lack the social cohesiveness for such a grand undertaking as world domination.
( unlike the Anglos )

Nobody is going to take over anything. There are no secrets in this world.

Clinton cant get a BJ; Kate Moss can't do a line; and Prince Harry cant even
spoof the Afrika Corps without it all being on the front page!

 

Who's front page?

 

The Sunday Papers.

 

lol...

"the sunday papers" would be under the control of people with private agendas...
...if they do have private agendas...

What happened to the holocaust discussion?

To Topholm, not that it's my business, but are you a Christian, and, if yes, why? I would think that Judaism was a religion perverted to sinister uses, and Christianity was to be used as a control valve, sort of like capitalism vs. communism.

Check this out.

 

I have read the New Testament quite a few times. All of those quotes are by rabbinical authorities from the old Testament. I will read through all the links though. Judaism is better identified as Talmudism. Talmudism is codified racial supremacy functioning under the guise of "religion". In regards to Christianity being a control valve, do a google search and find quotes by famous people on Talmudic Jews. I think you'd be suprised what Christian leaders had to say and why. Even in this thread, check out some quotes from the Talmud.

 

Totally; I agree with most of what you're saying,

(Though, I believe all forms of supremacy, which all peoples have gone through, are a natural part of man's consciousness-progression; something we are now moving away from and have it as a useful historical example of what not to do. The Talmud may contain rubbish, but I don't think it's "evil.")

On top of what you're saying, what if Yeshua Ben Joseph was a man who had revolutionary thoughts. He was killed for these thoughts by the powers that be. Even so, he was revered after death, so instead of trying to destroy him, TPTB used him and molded him into The Christ?

 

What if Top is an agnostic what difference would it make. Do you choose your enemies by label? That's one of the biggest problems with the world right now.

Rabin was jew for peace and Israeli extremist assassinated him. You think we will ever see a day when he is so revered?

However, his last words before he stepped off the stage and down the stairs to what would eventually be his final walking place was the song Shir Lashalom (literally Song for Peace).

 

We are still living in a world where his (Rabin's) contribution is forgotten and only Sharon and his ilk are considered or remembered as being important.

 

For the record I still think the holocaust took place, but should it be a get out jail free card....no!

 

Damn, I left out my reason for questioning, sorry.

I just wonder why Christians don't group Christianity in with the idea of the New World Order; to me, it is an obvious control valve, no offense. especially since Christians seem to be the biggest religion who is on to the new world order...even more evidence they are a control valve.

This Rabin guy sounds alright but I think Jesus was used like that on purpose, because the things he was saying were so enlightening that the whole power scheme would topel: "Love your neighbor as yourself, I am the way and the light," Christ sounds like he was onto cosmic consciousness, which I also think is the "secret" to life that the powerful have hidden from us. Jesus was big, he was Martin Luther King, Jr big. Rabin was obviously unheard enough to be kept obscure, seeing as you have to tell me about him. Jesus wasn't he had followers, so, when the powers (then the roman empire i believe)when the romans couldn't destroy the christ cult, they assimilated with it, hence constantine converting on his death bed, and welcome to the wonders of modern christianity.

I still haven't seen anyone discuss facts...yawn

by the way, choose my enemies by label? i must have misspoke; i thought i made it clear it was not an attacking question...i dont choose enemies, they seem to be molded by time and place

 

PS

I win, you intellectual pussies.

This is my last post.

This forum is a haven for regurgitators, CNN bootlickers, and trendy-psuedo-political-whiners.
Whatever, it's all the Bush Administration's fault, right?

Liberals are just as mentally sedated as conservatives, but their condition is even worse, because they think they are some sort of counter-culture.

"Bush sucks bush sucks! [insert contemporary political bitching]"
You people had better be happycomplaining about the same things every 4 years, because that's all you're going to get until you start using your brains and your individual spirit.

"Whatever, blah blah, Kblaze. I watch CNN cuz they're not teh propagandas!1"

Thank you for your time, and have fun in limbo, you worms.

Peace.

Now bow to your Master:

 

WOah...that picture is sick.

 

Is there a single person here that says something is true because CNN says so? You are just stereotyping to feed your own ego.

And what is your ideology? Your plan? To complain about a global conspiracy that is so vast and powerful that its not even worth doing anything about it?

 

Pepik, if somebody was across the road killing your neighbor, and you saw him seconds away from putting the knife into her heart...would you just shut up about it or would you use every last minute you had to go outside and yell your lungs off about it, even if the power you have to stop it is pretty minimal.