Women: Is Being a Porn Star Appealing?

Wonderful reading the response. Thank you.

This is much longer than I thought, and I hope you will indulge me by going through the following. Make some tea and grab some chocolate to keep you awake.

I appreciate the link to the article by Naomi Wolf. I have read Andrea Dworkin and believe you me, I have seen young women gobble the feminist slant she proposes. I have no problem disagreeing with both Wolf and Dworkin on several accounts.

Wolf opposes Dworkin's theories on sexuality and porn, especially its effect on young men and women. However I'm also wary of Wolf's traipsing around in the Middle East, wondering and craving the hidden secret treasures of another culture. She is taking her western culture and contrasting it with the middle east, forcing herself immediately to judge which is better, who has become more desensitized, and if the desensitization or lack of ability to handle the respective cultural influences of each region is better or worse than X or Y culture. Why is it necessary for her to seek proof of a better sexuality in another part of the world? It is interesting and no doubt, we are constantly being influenced by each other (all countries, cultures and regions exchanging ideas especially with travel these days and casual magazine and news publications). I believe she should instead be focussing on porn in the "west" and its existence here, rather than theorizing and growing jealous of another culture whose religious roots against pornography is strong and quite different. It is one thing to wonder; it is another thing to unrealisticly and enviously covet what another culture has without first proposing new ways of thinking of porn in the "west".

My thinking rests on the fact that porn will not disappear in 90% (or more) of developed countries. Pragmatically, what on earth is she doing gallavanting and drooling over Othered "hot" draperies, wishing she were more sexually charged in her "western" country if she dons a veil? It is both ridiculous and preposterous. She is escaping. Not dealing.

Secondly, I am continously reminding people on hipforums to DEFINE clearly WHAT "culture" they are referring to when they say "our culture". Please bear in mind that your culture is different from my culture even though we may be on the same continent. I was not born and raised in N. America. It is rather ignorant to believe that everyone here has been raised in the same environment. Many haven't been here for a decade!

I disagree with the "hole that needs to be filled". It is a weakness to encourage that cavernous vacuum in the first place, and I think pornography has been a scapegoat for long enough. I would go so far as to accuse the culture/s in the "west" for their idle nature in the first place, consumerism, gluttony and lack of faith in familial ties. Don't get me wrong. Consumerism and the above hold other developed nations in the east just as tightly. However, there are critical differences. Why does she not get her fingers dirty explaining far east Asia? We have porn. We do not wear veils. We fuck, suck, and our children go to universities.

Personally, it is a weak woman who cannot come to terms with pornography. I am not addressing becoming a pornstar. I am saying that the women Wolf speaks about are not only pure products of their environment, they are also products of their family upbringing and hundreds of years of cultural-instilling. Pornography is not the ultimate worm crawling under society. There are other factors also such as those I have pointed out above. Yet, these factors like consumerism, pornography, celebrity-worship, political and economic dips and highs all contribute to the time period we're addressing. I find that the west has a tendency to mourn their losses more than appreciate the changes in their society, and recognize the customs they do have. Do you know many people in the world do not celebrate Valentine's Day, or Halloween (this is still bizarre to me)? Do you know what I hear most of the time? Half-hearted, indifferent and bitter replies regarding these holidays. You have your customs too. Your beauty and your ability to love or dislike, nurture the family or throw it to shits.

Wolf also addresses that it's not only regional. It is also generational. She does this by contrasting older women and younger women and their pubic hair. I too find the phenomena strange. However, she leaves out the fact that times change. Pornography is here and now, and it influences our culture. I believe THIS is what makes you crave the contrast between a catholic school girl and potential/masked sexual freak. A woman in the middle east covers her hair and her friend from the west immediately thinks how "hot" it must be. How egocentric, ethnocentric, assuming and ridiculously patronizing is this? How much did Wolf go into the thousand year old customs and religion, the painful theoretical debates and feminist and post-feminist discussions in the last two centuries before jumping to the conclusion that her veiled friend must feel "hot"?

If you've read any arguments about the veil, this too is a packed can of worms that Wolf conveniently skips over.

Lastly, my friend, women and their apparent power in being demure are not the only ones capable of manipulating society and men. Pornography and the ability to use this information is also power and manipulation. Wolf is a coward. Dworkin is a coward. Worse, the former is turning to exoticized, fetishized, egocentric interpretations of the Middle East to satiate her ideal sexuality, and the latter literally cripples and strips agency from women and brainwashes them into thinking they must become embittered and angry with their husbands and partners for liking porn. Truly, I believe women should grow stronger because of this, not run away. Instead of mourning adult-length pubic hair in a sauna, we should embrace the trimmed, the shaven, the styled, the unstyled. This is variety. This is power. Here and now. The archaic power of different regions and other cultures exist but they are a different world and trying to superimpose that atmosphere here is both childish and petulant.

 

I just made some chocolate cookies in fact! They are sooooo good. I should post the recipe on this forum, since they are about as good as sex. They involve Ghirardelli 100 percent unsweetened chocolate. I can make them with honey, rice milk, and not a trace of sugar (I don't eat processed sugar), and they're totally sweet and delic.

I agree about embracing the here and now. I feel the same way as an artist about art. There is a real tendency to abstract to the past or to the "other". "Mozart was a genius", and the like. It is, frankly, not relevant. If I can learn from Mozart (I could learn more from Schubert), then that is good. But it is cowardly to attach myself to an idea that is SO SAFE... that no one will argue with, rather than create the best work I can in the here and now, stand up and deliver it. A true artist always works in the here and now. True thinkers work in the here and now, and they are ready to defend their beliefs, or change them if they learn something new. It takes courage to embrace what is happening now, and still try to make something of it all.

However, I think... well, I think the porn thing is complicated. As I have stated, I think we are all interested in sex and pornography speaks to that interest, so to that extent, there will always be erotic materials in any culture, and that is fine. But Hannah, tell me what you think of the following idea:

Because we live in a culture (Western, specifically that of mainstream United States I refer to) that is still not entirely comfortable with sexuality and has a tendency to SEGMENT sexuality from the rest of life and to deny their own sexuality, and in so doing make it more powerful, I think this creates a situation in which exploitative, VERY much lowest common denominator type people are the ones who end up making the pornography. I don't really include the women actors in this. I include the people producing the material (men and women), and in many cases the male actors. I have no issue whatsoever with explicit images of adults having sex. My issue is with the energy of the people making it. See, to me, it is sort of what happens when you outlaw consensual crimes like drug use. In this case, when consenting adults want to use illegal drugs, they have to do so through a network of people, many of whom are not the best human beings you could hope to meet. Many of them are people you do not even want to be around. Such is the case with pornographers, in my perception. Censorship is not these people's greatest threat, censorship would help them. Their greatest threat is people who integrate sexuality into their whole selves, accept it and make it a part of what they are. People like this may sometimes watch pornography, but they sure as hell wish there were more talented people making it.

Because Hannah, these people are stupid. I have seen men talk to women on internet videos in ways that were not just exploitative and offensive, they were just plain stupid. It is akin to the way a group of racist whites might talk to a black woman in a cage. It makes you cringe. They are obviously feeling inferior and angry to behave the way they do. I'm not saying all porn is like this. I'm not talking about any particular thing they do in porno movies, because apart from the multiple partner stuff, I can't think of anything I've seen them do that I haven't done. I am talking about how they do it. The energy behind it. I am suggesting that until people become more comfortable with sexuality, the people left to make their movies will be among the lowest people in that society.

You think?

 

Your response to Wolf was thoughtful and well written, but I had a different take on her. I totally agree about working within the world/culture you are in now, as I indicate above; and I agree with your assertion that to imagine importing one single aspect of another culture into one's own and have some kind of silly nostalgia for "the way we never were" can be absurd, but I thought she mentioned her (muslim?) friend with the veil to illustrate a point about our own. Do you sometimes think that everything is too overt in this culture? That people need to enjoy the contrast and irony a little more? That's how it seems to me sometimes. The best filmmakers, as an example, leave much for you to infer, rather than just dropping it in your lap.


cheers.

 

The cookies sound delicious.

I see your logic but in the larger picture, there should be priorities. There may be awful porn, degrading, painful to watch, bizarre and straight off the rocker kind of stupid but we must have our priorities. Would we have porn openly visible in HMV, "The Nutted Professor" next to "The Nutty Professor"? Or have porn commercials on television, or lessen the taboo or illegal feel of porn just to increase the quality and decrease the number of shady, riff-raffs in the industry?

Should there be more laws, or more regulations in the porn industry? You addressed webcaming girls being debased by stupid people (perhaps she is stupid also). This is not information that comes across the average person. I'm not saying you're odd. Only that it's easily avoidable and that there *is* far better porn (softcore even, of people making love) out there.

If we're addressing the safety of someone who wants to break into the porn industry, this is another thing altogether. It's dangerous so that it discourages people. Is this discouragement bad? I do not know. It depends if one considers its effects on society as bad, and what 'bad' means to an individual.

We can also discuss it like the 'chicken and the egg' argument. Which came first? BDSM and extreme fetishes or porn? I think it would be an interesting study. Are these fetishes and kink products of tabooing of sex amongst a sexual species? OR are these fetishes and kink inherent in our sexualized psyche, and porn is a byproduct? I wonder what your take is on this.

Porn is porn because it can get hard, nasty, senseless and unemotional. Porn is not love for this reason, even though people who love can make porn too. Hence, I think that for those who wish not to see the hard, nasty, senseless and unemotional, they have a choice not to go to that webcam or to the x-rated store, or browse websites or tv channels they know they do not like. Does this mean they are the prim ones who have not seen the light or converted or found their true humanity in its raw form?

If the answer is No, and this is considered an abnormality, then what is normal is different and removed from the porn industry. Primness (I use this loosely but for simplicity's sake) and porn are divided into two separate, parallel universes, and I think some even enjoy switching between these two dimensions with themselves or with their alter egos.

I agree with integrating sexuality in people's lives and this *is* the fear of the porn industry. It results in this other dimension being no longer needed or applicable to "normal" people. However, I don't think humans would be satisfied with this. We make rules only so that we can break them, and then revel in the I-am-here-you-are-there thrill of it. Earlier, when I asked the which came first question, "porn or fetishes", it now slots porn easily AS a fetish.

I don't think it's solely about being comfortable with irony or contrast. I think also that humanity cannot help but feel their differences and reactions about sex or filmed sex or cheap sex in themselves. Most are aware, about what they like and do not like, from early on (late teens and early twenties). Sometimes earlier, sometimes later. And often changing. These changes also happen to those in the porn industry. They're not nether-aliens or strange, obtuse creatures moving on the screen. They're human too, perhaps experimenting, perhaps making a living, perhaps hating it, perhaps loving it, perhaps they have degrees, perhaps they do not. I do not think it's right to dehumanize them in our minds for the dimensions they choose to shift into.

And I mention dimensions because there are many in this world. It does not mean a split personality. I do believe that we have different identities, under an overarching core character that holds it together. We are not going to behave with our grandmother the way we behave with our racing buddies.

To me, there is contrast but what struck me was the kind of sexualized contrast you were mentioning earlier with the catholic school girl stereotype. As a participant, you too have slipped into another dimension or another identity with assumptions that may be quite wrong and even "kinky" to some who have never thought of a catholic school girl in that way. (Yes, people like that still exist.)

As a result, if these dimensions shift and slip and meld into each other as we go about life and roll with the punches, how is shifting into a nasty, emotionless, senseless piece of bad porn any different?

Personally, the underlining key element is not a problem about porn, or a problem about the industry itself, or fetishes or kinks or sex in its many variations or about the rules and taboos we make for ourselves. It is in how we view other people, in all their decisions or walks of life. Does it bother you seeing "stupid" people engage with a webcam? Does it undermine your sex life as Wolf illustrated with young girls and boys who feel inadequate?

The world is not a sheltered, naive, bubbling-brook of sunshine and merriness anymore. Sex in the marshes is something to take a picture of, to film, to catch and to exploit (as you mentioned also). Sex in the marshes under the open sky isn't two people loving or at least desiring in the most "natural" way. Again, we cannot revert back to a time in the past, or to a different culture whose rules are different from ours. It's like a chessboard wishing it were backgammon.

We acknowledge our insecurities and we move on from there. Young girls shouldn't be warned about their nipples or forbidden to trim their pubic hair. They should be taught to embrace their body. More easily said than done, hmm? Parents are lazy more often than not. But do not get me wrong, parents shouldn't be treated as a scapegoat for what seems like a degenerating society either. In my opinion, it's not degenerating - only changing. This reminds me of the late nineteenth century, the sensation novelists, deep anxieties of trains and industrialism. Oscar Wilde made a fool of the fear and wrote that change must be embraced and used by us. Not feared.

And regarding those posts from other members who voted Nay for not wanting to be paid for sex, I wonder if anyone bothered to not only think about how money cheapens things but *how* it works in their psyche. How does a piece of paper change how you feel about something if you too are having a bit of fun? If we turn away, scoff and turn up our noses so quickly, how do you have time to contemplate how others in the porn industry feel? You have immediately separated the dimensions, crossed to the safe side and Othered them. I wonder if others think about it for longer than a resounding No, for longer than they imagine that heavy, forboding piece of paper.

 

Hey.

I went to Catholic School btw. We used to (the guys) go around touching each other to try and shock the teachers. They were mostly middle aged women. Also, there was this really sweet girl of Indian descent, and we might have had a crush on each other. I know I had one on her, I think it was reciprocal. I bet she's married now. I later (much later, only four years ago) fell in love with and had a really intense, intimate relationship with a girl who happened to be Chinese American (taught me a little Cantonese), and it kind of reminded me of the infatuation I had with the Indian girl. Different continent I know, but I'm not speaking culturally so much as I am that exciting, thrilling, somehow deeply satisfying feeling of looking at someone's face which is quite different from yours (I'm caucasion and pale), knowing that your parents and background is quite different and feeling deeply that it doesn't mean a thing. I would really like actually, and I hereby request this of the Universe, to fall in love with someone who cannot speak my language and I cannot speak hers. Anyway, I wore mascara to school once at Catholic School (which was 7th and 8th grade), and that Indian girl used to ask me after that if I was going to wear mascara tomorrow because she liked it. I remember grabbing her ass in church. It was a kind of awkward, early teen gesture, but it was a sincere one!

Listen Hannah, you express yourself with great intelligence and I enjoy this dialogue with you. Sometimes though, we can analyze and reduce something to a point where almost anything can be as justified as anything else. I think that point of view is actually an enlightened one, or can be, in as much as "all things serve God".

As usual you speak well (i hear it when reading). Please note, it is the female actors I have the most respect for, and the most sympathy (I mean this in terms of feeling for or with them, in the cinematic or theatrical sense, not feeling bad for them). My issue is more with the people who make some of these movies.

Of course I behave differently with my grandmother than with my best friends! Anything goes with the latter. That wouldn't really be "segmenting" in the way I described. What I am suggesting is that if one behaves in the latter way while speaking out against it with the former, then that speaks to a fundamental pathology. Hence my example of the preacher who speaks out against homosexuality and supports anti gay legislation but then goes and snorts crystal meth with and pays for sex with a gay prostitute. I could accept either of these things (more the latter than the former), but when he is virulently anti gay and yet clearly gay... I find that very worrisome. That speaks to the kind of lack of integration that I think causes people to start wars or commit violence. The reason for this, is that the person is at war with their self. And this troubles me.



I think the ultimate test of anything, and this speaks to my primary representation of the world which is kinesthetic, is how it makes you feel. Pornography can be funny (my first exposures to it with my friends were a riot). I think that at best, porn is funny and can be a turn on. It's just that if something gives me a creepy, uneasy feeling... then I think there is something wrong. For me. Once again Hannah, it really isn't what they do, but how. I have had a lover ask me to play out a rape fantasy for her, catch her, hold her down, do things to her, etc. It didn't bother me a bit because I knew there was mutual respect and love there and if that is the basis for it I can indulge any fantasy she wants. I have indulged plenty of my own and I do not intend to stop.

This could be done in porno movies, but when I sense genuine fear and embarrassment on the part of the actress, then I have an issue with it. We all have that dark side. Every man and woman has the capacity for war, rape, abuse... and every man and woman has the capacity to do extraordinary, beautiful, funny, transcendent things. I think we have a choice.

I don't think porn is "filth". I think porn is explicit images of people having sex, and I love that! I would much rather do it than watch it but still, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just that, like anything, you can have people doing it who are more interested in sadism than eroticism. Even that would be okay, if all parties are agreeing. When there is a kind of asymettrical domination and exploitation of one party by the other though, fuck that. Fuck the pathetic loser that had to do it... and fuck his pathetic justifications.


It's interesting: I have found that from the Tao De Jing, to the teachings of the Seers of India (my favorite), to the teachings of Christ (also excellent), to literature written in the beginning of the 1900's by people like Wallace D Wattles and Napolean Hill, to spiritual literature and speakers of the present day and now including cutting edge physics, they all seem to be saying that we are our attention. If you hold something beautiful in your mind, then like attracts like. I hope you have a beautiful day.

 

I agree about the genuine fear and embarassment - yet how do you presume to know what is genuine and what is not? They are female actors, are they not? Who are you to come in and shower pity on their lifestyle? It's very noble but I can't help but wonder why they are receiving pity rather than the same respect that we would give any passerby in the street.

It's also difficult for me to envison your "asymetrical domination". In some ways, it's a definite turn on. If it's so for me (and I'm by no means an extreme bdsm person), then I can imagine how it would be for many others. They don't need the pity or the angst from other people who don't understand it. And it's real domination, not some switch you flip off after both have gotten their kicks out of it; it's 24 hours a day. If there's abuse including suicide, crying every night, wanting to get out of the situation but being unable to - I think we can both safely draw the line. That to me is wrong, as I hope it is wrong for everyone.

 

*Puts on mascara and flits his eyes at you*

 

-

 

Is it appealing?













No

















-Maxi

 

I wouldn't want to be a porn star, but I'm glad someone can do it. I enjoy porn.

 

Thanks for all the responses so far. Don't be afraid to elaborate... Thanks.

 

Porn is a commodity now. Anybody with a camcorder can film and post content to turnkey websites. Save for a few companies like Vivid, etc. that still make "porn movies" with contract girls, and a relative few woman that get a "respectable" following as independents - most porn "stars" appear in relatively few scenes, let alone full productions. The content is mass marketed and plastered on <pun> on thumbnail sites. The "free" sample clips are enough for most guys to get off to...and then they strap shoes on and head off to work..lol. Image candy and new faces for new beat material for the male mind to race to.

I am a 38 year old male, and I use internet porn for shall we say "practical"purposes. I must admitt that with the mass availabilty and more or less generic content - and the fact that I'm getting older and hopefully smarter - porn is quickly loosing it's appeal to me. I also see the hard edge and seeming shallowess of those in front of the camera. Like alot of guys I've considered getting into porn and thought that having lots of different women to get off with would be great - but I think the idea is probably better than the reality. Porn is porn...like sex, when you need it..you need it..it serves a purpose...but it's certainly no sexual higher ground. As for the "star" part...most people don't really respect or give a shit about those in mainstream Hollywood...let alone people banging on film. If your going to do porn..do it for the sex or money and know that the video will outlive you. You probably won't get the Nobel prize for humanitarian causes and most people won't know your name, let alone remember it. Other than that...keep posting..I'm late for work. ;-)

 

Oh..and yes I skipped the moral, cultural, feminist, etc. arguments and approached this question from more or less a male biological perspective. That is.."I get horny and visual stimulation during masturbation get me off." Porn delivers the visual. No more..No Less.

 

I've done a few things on camera, but I would never want those videos to go beyond my home.

 

Yeah, that's my concern. I mean, your lover might want a copy for when you're not around (sounds like you didn't do that, which is smart), which is understandable... but if something unfortunate happens and he loses track of it or for whatever reason, it could end up on the internet. People in Tokyo could be watching it tomorrow. Would that bother you? I think it would bother me!

 

Hi, I was just doing a search on google for a certian dilemma I have, when I stumbled upon these forums. The said dilemma in question happens to be about... PORN!

So, here goes:

A good friend of mine recently asked me to be in a porn video with him. Well, I guess to be more accurate, a "friend with benifits" heh...

Anyways, he basically said that someone he knew was looking for a male and female to perform a sexual act on home video for him, of which he will pay $2,000 to be split between the partners.

Now, I never in all my wildest dreams thought that I would ever receive such an offer and actually debate with myself if I wanted to do it or not.

Typically, I would say no outright, but...

I don't know, I guess I was a little flattered to be invited to do it so it's made me open up a bit to the idea.

My friend said that it would be on Pay-Per-View, but wouldn't come back to haunt me or anything, that the people who would see it wouldn't know me or anything, that it would be rare if they did.

We are both broke as shit and need money. We both enjoy sex a lot. So, I dunno...

I guess I'm afraid that people will see my body... a lot of people... see me performing a very sacred act... Also, morally, I don't know... A lot of people say it is immoral, but I don't feel it would be hurting anyone in the end nor is it degrading to myself at all. I could be wrong. I also GREATLY fear the risk of it coming back to haunt me in the future...

I AM JUST SO CONFUSED SOMEONE HELP ME! lol

Should I do it????