The theory of evolution does not negate the existence of God, however if the theory could be proven to be true, it would negate the truth of the Scriptures. And yes some early men did believed the earth was the center of the universe, yet the Bible stated the earth was round and floated on nothing. Evolution does not support the Biblical account of creation, yet the Bible now has many of it stories being varified, and this puts into question the theory of evolution. If the Biblical account is true, then Evolution is wrong.
Campbell, regardless of what the bible says, biochemisty, physics, probability, and logic say that evolution has to happen. You can think the world is 6000 years old, but it happens whether you like it or not.
Campbell, would it destroy your faith in God if proof beyond a reasonable doubt was produced that the Adam and Eve/Original Sin story just didn't happen, evolution or no evolution?
Well I have seen the power of God work, and it sometimes defies logic and probabilities. When we are dealing with a supernatural God, all bets are off. And that happens whether you like it or not.
At the very least, I would really have to question then just how much of the Bible could really be believed.
Have you ever thought that the bible is to be believed, just not so literally in regard to creation? It's one thing to tell your people that the messiah is coming, telling them that they are related to deer can't be so easy. There are plenty of christian scientists who support evolution but also believe the bible, they just interpret it a little different. Take the story of Noah Flood for instance. Is it possible that there was a flood and an ark, but that it wasn't global, that it only flooded the world as those people knew it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution "Theistic evolutionists may believe either 1) that evolution (namely macroevolution) is a viable biological mechanism but was guided by God for the determination of species, or 2) that it is not viable and each genetic alteration leading to a new species required God's intervention. Both camps accept the notion of a last universal ancestor. This is distinguised from Progressive Creationism. Theistic evolution does not deal with the origin of life. This notion is accepted (or at least not rejected) by major Christian churches, including Roman Catholicism and most mainline Protestant denominations; some Jewish denominations; and other religious groups that lack a literalist stance concerning holy scriptures. Some evangelical Christians, including evangelist Billy Graham, are also open to theistic evolution. With this approach toward evolution, scriptural creation stories are typically interpreted as being allegorical in nature. Both Jews and Christians have been considering the idea of the creation history as an allegory (instead of an historical description) long before the development of Darwin's theory, two notable examples being the writings of Philo of Alexandria (1st century) and St. Augustine (4th century). [2] [3] Today, many individuals stress the unreliability of Genesis as a scientific text, believing that God guided an evolution of life up to humans." If the bible is the word of god, i'm sure that it has layers to it that we haven't even dreamed of, why take everything in it only at face value?
I don't know how that belief can be true, or maybe I just don't understand your reasoning. Maybe you can enlighten me. I do know Evolution is not in any way a threat to any truth of the Scriptures. I also know that an incredible treasure trove of infinite truth and meaning is ignored when one insists upon a strictly literal interpretation of Scripture, or ANY truly inspired text. It is the nature of Scripture (the word of God, if you will) to provide for anyone who sincerely seeks its truth and meaning, regardless of where they are when they begin their search. Now, you could accept, for a moment, that Evolution and Scripture are both true. It is certainly possible for truth to exist in more than one form, just as it is certainly true that all forms are truthful and meaningful according to their relationship to this ultimate reality. I realize it may be difficult to recognize and reconcile both Genesis and Evolution, but difficulty is not proof of either one's truth or untruth. The insistence that either one negates the other is really a misunderstanding of one or both truths. Ultimately, the Evolution/Creation debate is the same as arguing whether music resides in musical instruments or in music theory. Nonetheless, whether you believe it or not, I am curious about the reasons for your belief. Please elaborate. Peace and Love
Okay...would you still believe that Jesus Christ existed, and would your faith in him remain unshaken?
Explain? I don't believe you have seen anything that defies logic or probability. Really, I'm not sure how it can. Although reading your posts... Your evidence of god is subjective. You can't prove it happens whether I like it or not. I can, and I have, and even if there is a god and he defies logic and whatever, he obviously doesn't care enough to screw with evolution, 'cause it still happens, still is, and still must. Also, if you believe god can defy logic, what makes you believe anything in the bible?
Once you start to head down the path of what story is true, and what story is not, the Bible then begins to fall apart. As far as the flood, the Bible clearly tells us the flood covered the highest mountain. There is I believe a degree of Evolution that is natural and does exist, yet I do not believe to the extent that some would believe. If you consider the prophecies of the Bible, all of them that have been fulfilled, have been fulfilled literally. Jesus fulfilled to date over three hundred of them, and yes, all of them were fulfilled literally. For years many said the crossing of the Red Sea by the children of Israel was just an allegorical story. Yet just in the last few years, they have discovered Pharoahs coral incrusted army between two granit pillars that were placed there thousands of years ago. Also they are finding extra Biblical writings which describe what took place at the crossing site. And those writings match the story we have in the Bible. The event was not allegorical, it really happened. Dr. Moller I hear is coming out with a movie in the spring of 2007 which goes into great detail with the findings there.
If Evolution is true, then that would mean that the Creation story found in the first Book of the Old Testament is a lie. And I have found that often if you don't take the Bible in most case as lieteral, the Bible is reduced to jiberish. There is one thing that is certain, Evolution, and the Creation story cannot be both true. Many did not believe that the Red Sea Crossing story was a real event. Yet just in the last few years they have discovered the remains of Pharoahs coral incrusted army. I believe a movie is coming out this spring to show the massive amounts of evidence that is now being uncovered there. If we had believe those who said the story was made up then we would of believed a lie. If we believed the Bible had told the truth, then we would of been right. The Bible will always be a step ahead of mans best theories, because the Bible never fabricates the truth.
Whoa FreakerSoup! We actually agree on something?! Logic is a fundamental aspect of God's nature. He cannot defy it nor can He ignore it. However, it must be stated that not everything is bound by logic. So, God can do things outside of logic (like we can), but cannot *contradict* logic (i.e. God cannot make a square circle).
The Bible clearly tells us that mans wisdom in Gods eyes is but foolishness to Him. What we preceive as sound and logical, God often understands is but nonsense on our part. God often defies logic, do you recall the story of Jona and the whale? Or how about the story of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. Do you recall how the King had the three thrown in to a fiery furnace and the flames were so hot that men near the furnace died from the heat. Yet God's people stood in the flames and were untouched. Or how about when Aron tossed Moses staff down before Pharoah, and his staff turned into a serpent and made a meal of the two serpents that belonged to Pharoahs priest. Where is the logic in that. The God of the Bible has wonders to preform, and often those wonders defy human understanding.
Defy human understanding yes, but not logic. Defy common sense? Yes, but not logic. Logic is a systematic analysis of the truth or falseness of a statement. There are two fundamental "laws" of logic, the law of non-contradiction and the law of the excluded middle. Not even God can violate these laws any more than God could alter any part of His own nature. God is truth. If something is true then we can use logic. Only that which is false defies logic. God *is* a logical being. He can be emotional, He can have preferences, He can issue commands, and He can ask questions. All of these are outside the realm of logic. Here is a simple test to see if logic can apply. After the sentence, ask whether it is true or false. If asking "True or False" is non-sequitur, then you know that logic doesn't apply. For example: 1. "Hunger." True or False? Non-sequitur. Logic doesn't apply. 2. "What time is it?" True or False? Non-sequitur. Logic doesn't apply (to the question, though it might to the answer). 3. "Go to sleep!" True or False? Non-sequitur. Logic doesn't apply. 4. "Vanilla is the best flavor of ice cream" True or False? Aha! We CAN apply logic to this statement. What we will discover via logical deduction is that the statement is false because it is not the case that vanilla is actually the best flavor of ice cream (even though several people, including myself, think so). So, if God acts, He will act in a manner that is logical if logic can be applied, though we may not understand His motives or reasons. However, He will not nor can He *contradict* logic.
There is nothing that God can't do. He is God, and don't even try to tell us about what He can or cannot do. This is the whole problem. With a human mind you are trying to explain God's limitations. He is light years beyond your best thought. Thats why God tells us the natural man cannot understand the things of the Spirit. God tells us, that His thoughts are higher than ours. That is why God tells us not to lean unto our own understanding.
1. God cannot cease to exist. 2. God cannot do evil. 3. God cannot do anything unjust. 4. God cannot cease to be 100% God. 5. God cannot violate the 10 commandments. 6. God cannot make a square circle. 7. God cannot exist and not exist at the same time and in the same respect. 8. God cannot sin. 9. God cannot violate His own nature in any way. 10. God cannot change His essence or nature. Ten things God cannot do. If you say that God can do any of the above, then your concept of God is non-sequitur, non-scriptural, and frankly, if you believe that it is possible for God to do moral evil, then you do not believe in the Christian God. God is more clearly defined by what He cannot do than by trying to imagine what He *can* do. God can only do what is possible for Him to do. The above are (thankfully) not possible for Him.
Isn't that what you're doing? What makes you more of an expert on the matter than anyone else? The bible itself does exactly that. Constrains god to fit into a very specific image. Is he infinite or is the bible right?
Here again you underestimate God. In Matthew 19 verse 26 Jesus stated, ''but with God ALL THINGS are possible.'' Now would you like to present your list to Christ and tell Him how wrong He was for say that. I believe in the words of the Christian God, you donot. You are trying to figure out God, I'm telling you, He is beyond understanding.
I only believe God's own words. Matthew 19:26 but with God ALL THINGS are possible. I'm not an expert, I just happen to agree with Jesus.
There you are. You're saying that god had to have said and confirmed as true and absolute everything in the bible. God HAD to do no such thing. With god, not all things are possible. He still can't make, as Ash said, a square circle. He can't mess with our free will, right? He can't make himself normal and then make himself god again. There's plenty that even god cannot do.
