Now that pluto is no longer considered...

In your scheme of things; I am a modern Astrologer. I just want to use astrology to help people grow psychologicaly. I accept the new techniques that became popular in the 60s revival by people like Isibel Hicky and Robert Hand. I know that the outer planets are fine ruling the signs they now rule, and they do have dignities though not as important as inner planests.

I most certainly respect classical astrology. It brought us to where astrology is now going. I don't think you would be a very good counciling astrologer if you just used classical astrology though. Modern times need modern methods right?

Oh and I am going home to Pluto this weekend, I'll take some pics.

 

can i go with you?

 

Yeah sure, hop on board.

 

Ok first let me say that what I am about to say is coming from the persuit of knowledge and not personal fighting. I actually like arguing ideas since that shows what people where their ideas really are - whether it be strong or weak.

First the outer planets are not part of the essential dignity system, at least not that I have found. If they are, then in what signs are Pluto, Neptune, and Uranus the triplicity ruler? What signs do the have dignity by face?

They were given rulerships through a method that I am not entirely clear with and I don't think anyone else is. For instance, WHY is Pluto the ruler of Scorpio when Mars was the ruler for thousands of years.

Actually a modern astrologer who uses classical methods wrote a book called "The Book of Rulerships". It's basically a compilation of various old sources' lists of which planet or sign rules plants, stones, careers, places, and so on.

Here is where it gets interesting. The current standard on rulerships is Rex Bills' book. It uses the new planets. Lehman, who wrote the book I am talking about, compared rulerships from the ancient authors, who still varied a bit, to Bills.

Now today it is said that Uranus is the higher octave of Mercury, Neptune of Venus, and Pluto of Mars. You would think that rulerships would show a high number of shifts from Mercury to Uranus, Venus to Neptune, and so on. She proved it is not the case.

Here is a rough table. If modern astrology was correct, then Uranus should have a high number of rulerships in Mercury. This goes the same way with the other two planets. The table doesn't look good here, but I think you can figure it out:

Planet Uranus Neptune Pluto
Sun 4 1 1
Moon 0 5 1
Mercury 1 2 1
Venus 1 4 4
Mars 4 0 5
Jupiter 2 0 2
Saturn 2 7 6

As you can see, it sin't so clear cut. In addition, today something like adultury goes to Uranus, which in the old days went to Venus which makes sense to me. Computers goes to Neptune (I think that's the planet for inventions - if not then its Uranus) when it makes more sense for it to go to Mercury which is communication.

So again what WAS the logic? This is what got me started on classical astrology to begin with. Why and how did the the new planets get the rulerships and attribututions they did?

Also it's funny you mentioned Robert Hand. Robert Hand is one of the pioneers of the classical astrology movement. He even started a group who is trying to translate and analyze old texts so taht modern people can understand them. A modern classical astrologer once told me: "The are more and more modern astrologers going back to the old methods, but there are no classical astrologer going back to the newer methods."

And my last question is: why CAN'T you do a consultation using the old techniques? Are we really that different? In my mind it isn't that you can't give people what they expect because you can with the old methods. You are actually giving people what they DON'T expect. So why not? Is there some ancient technique that worked for millenia, but stopped in the last 200 years?

 

It's Thanksgiving I am busy, but I want to comment on your points. I love a good debate myself. Have a good one.

 

I'm getting ready to do this myself!

 

will be watching - silently

 

Oh yeaaaaaahhhh we RULE them. ha ha ha ah

 

You should think higher of yourself!

 

ha ha ha ha - i love you man.