atheist but not arguing

I have given up arguing with people who argue from a christian perspective
they are full of shit and cant even work out the simplest logic
that most 12 year olds can do - indisputable logic such as:

god does not exist is an illogical statement
why?
because if god does not exist then there is nothing that is called "god"
if god does exist - then there is something called god
If god does not exist how can I prove god does not exist
since there is nothing called god and it does not exist
its evident it does not exist because its prescence is not evident
(still following this huh?) because it doesnt exist its abscence is the proof
If you say it does exist ONLY ITS PRESCENCE WILL SUFFICE AS PROOF
the best we can get is that I might be generous and say "well I JUST MIGHT NOT HAVE FOUND IT"
but it begs the question doesnt it?
WHERE THE FUCK IS GOD IF IT EXISTS ?
since I have to spend 30% of my time explaining that - I've given up
because it just fuckin wore me out !
theyre thick as two brick shit houses out there sometimes
INFACT I EVEN REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE GOD NOW and will ask what people are talking about when they use that word
infact - thats it - lets see them squirm trying to work out exactly what they believe

 

You were wasting your time, because there is a good reason why even if God exists, he has to hide.

Proof negates faith, and therefore also negates the free will and power to choose. If you proved there was a God, what choice would you have? You would have to believe.
That is logic.
If God is hiding you won't find him. But why would God care if you believed in him or not?
The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The city of Troy is an example. It was declared a myth because they hadn't found it. It was there, though.

 

Exactly - but the people who said it didnt exist asked for the same proof - if you say its there I will believe it when you show me - and prove it is troy
until then we must agree that if I look and dont find it - it may exist but that begs the question - where is it - if youre so certain you have found it - show me

 

LOL!

I said the exact same thing to Columbo less than an hour ago, must be an agnostic catch phrase or something...

 

I haven't found it. I have seen no evidence that there is a god. And even if there is, I can't see God favouring one religion over another. Would Christianity be God's pet religion?
If there is or is not a god doesn't matter to me. It appears you may have assumed I am certain there is one. Far from it. If I had to make a call, I'd guess no. But I won't dismiss the possibility. Besides, if god exists, our limited minds couldn't grasp what it was, so trying to figure out god seems to me to be a waste of time. I am with you, it may exist.
I don't think it matters anyway.

 

Maybe that's your problem.

Not everyone is a fundie.

Just because they claim that the possiblility for the existence of God is there(like those who claimed troy existed), doesnt necessarily mean they are claiming to have found it.

It just means that they are not going ignore the possibility of it's existence.

I think thats the difference between atheism and agnosticism....

 

so you are saying that for all things that are asserted true and provable
if x is asserted as true and provable its negation is also asserted as true and provable?

Then I am standing outside your house writing this on a laptop
prove that isnt true
I say it is true

 

clarify further please?

 

Just because something has been proven does not mean that there is no chance it can not ever be disproven under certain conditions. It is better to try to disprove something, rather than prove it, because once you disprove it you know that it can be disproven. If you prove it, that might not mean that no method exists by which someone could disprove it.
If you say you are outside with your laptop, I will just trust you, its much easier.

 

that was like....the 1st thing i said to columbo when he came here in one of his earlier posts and the thread was somewhat the same....

you just have to have faith columbo.....throw your logic to the wind...and just have faith.....

 

Col

what if a god/s is not interventionist
And set the observable universe up as an evolving system
including an antientropic subsystem called life.
[organised, not created, like a farmer]
14 billion years back..
Then went away to some other part of reality to do something else.

To occam this is far more reasonable than any religious mythos.
Actually explains what we observe quite well.
[as do other variants]

Are you saying that because humanity cant see it, it does not exist?
We dont know what gravity/space or time are. We dont know what
consciousness is. We have travelled only to our own moon.
We in fact know very little.
God could be hanging out in the proxima system and we would not know it.
[Next door]
So limmited is our vision/understanding.

Indesputable logic,, that a 12 year old can do.
Is.
"To prove a thing does not exist
one must examine all the places a thing may exist
and find nothing"

We cannot do so. [at this time]
thus.
We cannot say that thing does not exist

Thus the thing may exist=
agnosticism

Occam

 

no I'm not saying that at all -
I'm not saying we cant see it so it doesnt exist - certain elements in the periodic table were discovered because we deduced they must be there and knew what they would look like because of the evidence that was brought to our attention by the elements that we knew about. It was mathematically deduced. Also - there are particles no-one has ever seen but we know they are there because of their effects - we can analyse the particle by its effects on other particles and thus deduce its exact nature.

this is not the case with the christian "god" and that I now call by a random name in each thread, such as jursyslajdydijwhgwusjs. there is no evidence for the existence of jursyslajdydijwhgwusjs as it doesnt exist ! there is no sign that any approaches to jursyslajdydijwhgwusjs makes a difference nor when christians call it god and pray to it -and therefore it is a mere miscarriage of good reason to infer an entity with no reasonable evidence or disputation of the proposition that jursyslajdydijwhgwusjs is any different to "god" - in what way would praying to jursyslajdydijwhgwusjs be different from praying to god or doing any other ritual ?
when people pray to elephants it makes more sense than praying to a god
it makes no sense whatsoever to pray to that which we do not have a clue about in the factual universe of existent entities

 

Maybe God is not merely a mythological figure for those who believe, or are open to the possibility? The question of divinity arises universally. We should try to understand that instead of nitpicking old age religious mythology.

 

Well we wouldnt be able to nitpick if it didnt have nits - I mean if a horse gets nits you groom it - but what can you do if a big fat smelly nit-infested religion lands on your doorstep - you cant invite it in and give everyone nits can you? thats why I choose to leave it outide the house !

 

Col

Agree..

There is no evidence of gods of human religion
But there is 'highly indicative' evidence of 'something'
that has resulted in anti-entropic and dynamic subsystems
within a deterministic gross physical universe.
Our observable universe displays MASSIVE complexity.
The structural complexity of a single flower reduced to data would
fill all the hard drives on earth.
Occam finds it difficult to believe a stable platform of FAR
less complexity could not be found if all was just random
chance.
To occam..Our universe, our small part of reality. Is a freeform play
withinin a stringent set.[of rules] That allow choice within a mostly
deterministic stage.
Total randomness and absolute determinism are anethema to occam.
They do not 'ring true'

'Where did these rules come from' is the all important question.

Occam

 

That'd be throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

 

Throwing the baby out with the bathwater?
that is the first thing you have ever said, shaman sun, that I dont think is relevent. The two arent equivelent in the sense that the baby would have to be in the bathwater to begin with - in this case the baby never got through the door. It was already outside the door
I already chucked it out when it turned out to be a rabid dog that didnt want its nits picked

 

Religion itself develops around the divine, attempting to wrap it up into a neatly packed bundle of divinity.

The question remains about the validity of the divine. Can't throw it all out. If you'd like to remain inside, however, it'd be worth a peek through the window. Certainly is quite a beast we've made! However, it goes to show that what contraptions we make of "truth" or divinity are always warped when we attempt to organize and claim them.

 

Faith is basicly saying "It hurts my brain, I give up"

 

Well said !