Ramajanmabhumi and Hindutva Stupidity

I mean really, who cares? If it was the birthplace of Rama or not who gives a damn? If it is really a holy place Rama would not be happy if you go and kill bunch of muslims because you wanted to destroy their mosque and they protested. Neither does it mean that muslims should burn bunch of karsevaks in a train or something. All of this is stupid. Also, what is up with these hindutva groups , namely Vishwa Hindu parishad and RSS etc trying to show that their view is the view of Hinduism? Hinduism is full of diversity , it incorporates many different faiths. By saying their view is the only view of hinduism , these hindutva groups are spreading more ignorance.

Please add your comments. Thank you.

 

Well, what's hindutva?

 

Fundies if I'm correct.

It's the same with fundamentalists of all religions - stupid is the right word.
I think that behind their craziness is the idea that their particular religioin is the only true one, they are better in some way than members of other religions, and that their religion will one day displace all the others (either globally or locally).
Such views are held by Hindu, Christian, Jewish and Islamic fundamentalists - and they are nothing but a recipe for continuing conflict and violence.
It seems Hindu fundies see religion and nationalism as one and the same thing. They are cultural conservatives of the worst most regressive type.

 

It's sad. my Guru was one of the founders of VHP, the vision the original creators of the group had was of a glorious diverse union of Hindus, bringing love and harmony to the nation. And it was completely usurped in the eighties, to the point where Gurudev refusd to have any association with them whatsoever.

Funny thing is that these fundies are the same fools who sing Ishwara Alla tero naam, sabko sanmati de bhagwan - God, Allah, etc are your names, please give everyone a mind of goodness Lord. Right before going out and smashing down mosques.

And when asked who is Rama, they will say in scholarly tones, sarvatra ramate iti ramah - that which revels in us all is Rama. And then they fight over the birthplace of the birthless brahman.

 

But these are thinga that happened quite a few years ago. Tension still exists, but the events you speak of are 2-3 years old. What brings them to mind now?

 

Thats the danger of religion in general. It degenerates into mere formalism, where the followers go through the motions without any understanding. It's also a function of so called 'religious culture' when in decline or under threat.

Better to discard outmoded social blueprints as indicated by religions, and have a secular society where all spiritual paths, religions etc are on a level playing field.
But it is secularization which many of the fundies find unacceptable. Because it threatens their vested interests, as in the case of the caste thing.

 

ugh...I don't understand the point of doing stuff like that.... but then again...I suppose that is what I am not a fundie...

Mrph...sometimes...it just gets me so sad when things like this happen...you know? Not just the physical terrorism....but also the verbal and political stuff (though it was terrorist here in the 60s but more on a racist term)...like in the US...but I really think people here have got the clue and are starting to become tired with it.... because I don't know about others...but I, for one, am sick of being automatically classified as an ignorant, materialistic, ethnocentric, fundamentalist Christian just because I happened to be born in America....

I do believe that there should be a separation of church and state (a secular society, as you said) but that schools should give a basic world religions class that is unbiased and explains all religions as they are and makes none better than any others...therefore no one is placed higher than another but that everyone still understands ....but that's just me being all unrealistic and innocent and optimistic and such....

....on a different but similar note...though these things went on quite sometime ago....I'm sure there are still similar feelings going around....we talked about this last year during HSC when Vanarsi was bombed.... that many believe Hindus should stand up for themselves instead of non-acting...though I have to say that they have lasted quite long throughout all of this non-action business ::shrug::

 

Well, it never occured to me that you were a fundie Nicole! I'm not one of those who thinks all americans are rednecks...as I've said before I think, America is the place where we might yet see epochal changes along positive lines.

In my interactions here on the forums, I've got on well with many americans, and disagreed with many too - but certainly, I don't think we can judge a nation by the acts of a few cranks who happen to have money and hence power.

I'd favour a wide spectrum of beliefs being taught in schools, but perhaps under a head such as 'social anthropology' or similar. I don't agree with what we have here in britain, so called 'faith schools'. I see them as brainwashing institutions which serve only to prop up and even inflame social divisions. I know, because as a child I was initially sent to one such Roman Catholic brainwashing centre run by nuns. Fortunately for me, there was some trouble, and at age 7 I was removed from there and sent to an ordinary state school. The feeling I had was similar to that of a prisoner on their release.
I'm extremely glad that I didn't end up going the full course with the catholics.
It disturbs me now to think of the stuff that some children today are having put into their heads.

 

Hindu= Hinduism...
Tatva= "Ness"

Hindutatva= Hinduness... but there is nothing hindu about it, it is completely violent. RSS and Vishwa Hindu Parishad claim to be the largest "Volunteer Organizations" in India but really they are no better than Simis (Muslim "Student Group" - which is in reality, terrorist organization in India) and are definitely the cause of Godhra violence and massacres in India in Gujurat in 2003. Together, the extremist hindu and muslim groups kill common working class hindus and common working class muslims. Another sad part is, the muslims are the ones who are completely oppressed because they are the minority, so lets say every muslim kills 1 hindu and every hindu kills 1 muslim, the death toll of hindus does not come nearly close to the death toll we see for the muslim population.

The sad part is, the Gujurat (A state in India) Chief minister Narendra is also part of this stupidity, so he basically let all those murderers roam free even today and no one is doing anything about it.

How do we know all this? the scholars in India who are *not* in Gujurat write about these things.

 

The fact that there are these "hindutva" supporters invading california and many Hindu organizations in America.

 

But now a days you have to start judging BBB. The hindutva organizations in India have alot of power and they control even the state/central schools. They change the books, omit the fact that Gandhi was killed by a hindu, rewrite the books so that they give the impression that muslims are outside invaders. I remember when I was in India, I went to a central school, we were taught that muslims destroyed temples, massacred millions of Hindus in order to convert them and this was from a test!. I had to memorize this stuff to write it on my history exam in 7th grade. So you know, the sad thing is these groups are very influential in India and cause alot of problems.

 

Heh this reminds me, Prabhupada also set up ISKCON for the similar reasons, to bring Krishna consciousness and peace to people who are interested, after he died, you know how it turned out. So don't blame Prabhupada next time you come across his quotes. ok?

 

I get it..."Hindu Jihad".sama:

 

If they are is quotes, and I disagree with them, I will definitely speak. I never criticized him for the mess up of his disciples.

 

I don't know which school you went to, I went to a Central Board school also, and one run by a Hindu organization at that. And we were taught to respect the moghuls and their achievements and contributions to Indian culture. But it is undeniable fact that they were outside invaders. But it is to their credit that they made India their home, their land, unlike the British, who always saw it as a possession.

 

I believe we should stand upor ourselves, but violence is not the way to do that. It is through education, open mindedness and love.

But I am reminded from what you said of an example from the Ramcharitmanas, where it is said that the good people are soft, like the tongue, and the harsh are hard like the teeth. But the teeth fall out, yet the tongue is never uprooted. The teeth may bite the tongue, but the tongue can always tell the dentist to pull them out. The soft does not break. Water cannot break.

 

I'm sorry...I didn't mean it directed at anyone...and that was wrong of me to group...did it just the same, didn't I? ::le sigh:: It is quite frustrating though...sometimes it bothers me a lot....I appologize again....

 

Don't worry - I didn't think you were aiming criticism at me - and I wouldn't mind anyway. I posted that more for the sake of clarity

 

Well Jedi, I am sometimes accused of being too judgemental. But I don't think we can afford to ignore fundamentalists in any country.
The stuff like the attempt to re-write history and so on is very disturbing.
What I meant anyway was that I don't judge all americans because of the actions of a few, and the same with Indians and every other nation.

 

I went to Atomic Energy Central school, maybe my teacher was biased due to other reasons, but I find that very unlikely------ considering Hindutva groups are everywhere in India, especially politics and the central government.