Abortion

Abortion is not murder because the only thing that is being taken away is biochemical life?

I can tell from your statement, you have never seen a child in its 12th week.
And when your sleeping you can't wish to be alive either, and when you are sleeping you don't have fear of termination either. It's so easy to speak of how another human being can be killed off. It's always easy for guys like you, especially when it's not your pound of flesh that's on the chopping block. Abortion is not done maliciously? Oh, so as long as you have a positive feeling about killing something, that makes it ok. I swear, I sometimes wonder where people like you come up with this kind of crap. This is the same kind of logic Germans used to explain why Jews had to die in the death camps. It was sick then, and it's sick today.

 

Fact is that after the heart starts beating you know that it's a living organism instead of just a " cluster of cells ". Problem with abortion that early is that because the fetus is so small the vacum is dangerous to use as it may suck up " too much " and so it's safer to perform an abortion 2 months or so after conception. Which is a bit ironic, you have to wait for it to grow some more before you can destroy it safely. You stated earlier that women might not know they're 3 months pregnant, I do believe that within the first month the morning hangovers begin ( when the pregnant mother throws up in the morning, and in the afternoon ).

 

I havent read all the way through this , there are 31+ pages ._.

But Imho I believe that abortion should be the choice of the woman , they should be allowed to act on their moral standing and make a choice for themselves whether or not others believe its cruel or evil.
People deserve freedom of choice , and women do not need government officials dictating what is legal to do with their body(dont start arguing with something off topic like drugs , I used this for lack of better wording)

 

well I am against abortions unless it is somehow proven to be a life threatening risk to the girl in question. though thats a tough one to call I admit.

or if the girl is raped. But there is no excuse not to get one within the first month if that is the case.

So I would support abortions in the first cycle (give or take) if it is legitametly a dire situation.

I can see that yah, it is the womens choice. But at the same time, you can't have a baby and than decide "you know, actually I don't think I want this." Having a child takes planning and is not something to be done on the whim. Entirely allowing abortions will make women to irresponsible in that regard and that is not something to condone. By saying you are against abortions you place the responsibilty on the woman to practically plan for child bearing and that is something I agree with. But there is no way to plan for a birth that may be threatening to the mothers life or a raping. so I am middle of the road I suppose in the end.

Plus it shocks the hell out of me that some get an abortion just because the fetus is scanned and a few problems are found. as if the parent wants a perfect child and gives up on it. I find that distrubing and it increases my stance on no abortions. But it still needs to be around for rape and times where its dangerous to the mother.

 

Me being asleep and me being a fetus are two different things. I would not have cared, for reasons I gave earlier in the thread, if I were aborted. Now that I'm alive, I'm glad to be here, but I would not have had any thoughts or feelings on the topic at the time.

The nazis killed jews because they felt they were superior and wanted to get rid of them as a race. Stop using this comparison, because not only is it a fallacious shock tactic, but it really makes you look a bit crazy. Which you may be, I won't judge.

 

I'm all for abortions. The more dead babies from stupid parents the better

 

^ I agree

 

I want to make a random point that if women who dont already have 5 kids running around, or are almost to the point of menopause could get tubal litigations, maybe there would be less abortions, too.

I know for a fact I dont want children, but yet, if I told a doctor I dont want children and want a tubal, they would refuse to give me one... so instead, that sets me up for a higher chance of getting pregnant and having an abortion, therefore raising the of abortions performed each year.

it really fucking irritates me. Im sick of that whole lecture "What if you change your mind" or "You WILL change your mind"

I know what I want, and if it ever WOULD happen to change, then I would only have myself to blame, and Id be fully prepared to deal with those consequences.

Im sure women that had tubals and later regretted it, probably dealt with THAT a lot better than most women dealt with post-abortion problems.

The reproductive rights available right now, make no fucking sense. I'm all for reducing the numbers of abortions, but to do that, you also have to have better options as well...and right now the option of a woman getting fixed when shes certain she doesnt want children is almost impossible. Its so stupid.

Wouldnt getting a tubal, and not getting pregnant in the first place, be a hell of a lot better than getting pregnant because you couldnt get a tubal, not wanting the child, and aborting it? I mean...

the whole thing irks me.

 

You misread, I said how can a woman NOT know she is pregnant within 3 months???

Why would anyone wait that long, missing periods, to take a test?

And early abortions shouldnt be a problem, so long as you find a reliable place to have it done... there still are clinics that, I certainly wouldnt trust.

I DO think the abortion PILL should be banned... it's insanely dangerous. My guess is that the women who go through with the pill, think that somehow it will be easier because they dont have to go through a surgery-like process... but I've read up on the abortion pill a lot, and the truth is the side effects, recovery, and everything is a lot more intense than vacuum aspiration. Girls/women have already DIED using that pill.

 

Sorry, I'm relatively too tired to catch those kind of things the past few days.

I've never honest to God heard of a 3 week abortion.

 

I never said anything about a 3 week abortion....

 

I know but early abortion in the first month of pregnancy don't happen all that often, which is the only time I think it could be morally accepted.

 

around 4-5 weeks there is still no fetal heartbeat... if I am not mistaken....

Truth is, this summer I had an abortion; I lost my period and thought it was because of my eating disorder... I was also struggling with anorexia at that time. My mom suggested I take an EPT before writing it off as that, and I thought nothing of it (I had absolutely no symptoms besides the missed period...in fact, my boobs were non-existent because of my eating disorder, I had no morning sickness, nothing), but sure enough. So I was at the doctor almost the entire week following, getting all sorts of tests, because a few days after I took the test I started to spot (bleed) and a miscarriage was expected. But, because of the risks between my eating disorder and being pregnant (not only for the baby, but for me... I could have instantly suffered from heart attack, kidney failure, coma or death) I didn't want to wait to find out, and end up getting sick in the process. I was only 4-5 weeks according to the ultrasound and there was no fetal heartbeat. I am not sure whether or not that is normal, they didn't exactly say...

Either way, I was extremely early, and I recovered just fine... I had no problems, physically. Mentally, sometimes.

I didn't particularly want to get into this, on a debate, because god knows what people are going to attack me with now, but I wanted to point out, that I've had the experience, and early abortions are not as unsafe as you may think... In fact, I probably had the best recovery compared to most women. I only had a couple days of extremely LIGHT spotting, almost no pain, and no medical problems later. They also put me on new birth control immediately.

I know you say things are different in Canada, but here, it was quite a process.

The thing about it too, is that you really can't rely on a lot of doctors to check you out, first, so that you can have an abortion before it's nearly the 2nd trimester. The second I found out I was pregnant, I dialed up the doctor and tried to schedule an appointment...you know, just to make sure I actually was, because sometimes home tests arent all that reliable. They told me I had to wait until I missed my second period. If I would have been a pushover, it wouldnt have gotten taken care of immediately, but I basically told them to fuck off because I wanted to see a doctor right away.

The embryo/fetus whatever it was at the time, wasnt developing the way it should have been because it was taking a long long time for my hcG levels to rise, which was a bad sign...they actually thought I might have an ectopic pregnancy at first. Which turned out I didnt, I simply wasnt healthy enough for the fetus to grow the way it should have been.

Early abortions, are actually far safer for the mother than later abortions... But, I dont know, there can be problems with any procedure like that. it is considered minor surgery, and yes, things can go wrong.

BTW, this whole thing, this is why I am wholeheartedly pro-choice. I don't know what I would have done, had I not had that choice. I knew I was no where near ready for recovery from my eating disorder, and I couldnt possibly have a healthy pregnancy living off of 200-500 calories a day. Either the baby would have died, or I would have, too. It was extremely scary, and I can't stress enough how thankful I was to know that there was some way I didnt have to put myself at such a high risk. Not to mention, the entire thing did really kick me in the ass to not only want to try recovering, but to be much much much much more careful about sex. No one ever helped me until I went to planned parenthood. I was always stressed because I was allergic to latex, and couldnt use regular condoms...I HONESTLY did NOT know about polyurethane until I spoke with the women at PP. And my last OBGYN put me on YASMIN, which made me sicker than a dog, and I had to go off of it...She didnt give me any other options, really. She didnt discuss anything with me, even when I asked. I thank my lucky stars that I go to PP regularly now, because they actually give a shit about what I feel comfortable doing with my body, which medication I should be on, and what else I can use for backup protection being that I have poor health and lots of allergies.

OH!!!! One more thing. I also became extremely paranoid afterwards, that I would get pregnant no matter what. And that was because most of the girls in there when I was, were on some sort of birth control and still became pregnant. In fact, two of the girls had IUDs, and the IUDs failed or slipped without them knowing... IUDs are supposedly one of the most "reliable" forms of birth control. So knowing that, even being on the pill and using polyurethane condoms, I was still freaking out everytime I had sex...which was, and still is far and few between because now it just makes me nervous altogether. Every single week I took fucking pregnancy tests, scared. Course, that was all a waste of money because it didnt happen again... I got over the obsession with taking the tests, but I still have trouble feeling ok about having sex, no matter how many forms of birth control I'm using.

Abortion is not an easy way out, I still have a lot of trouble accepting the whole thing, and being okay with ME, after having gotten pregnant in the first place. Had I not been sick with anorexia, I would have at the very least went through it and given the baby up for adoption...but that wasnt an option in my eyes, for that situation. I never believed I could ever do that, have an abortion, but when my life was at risk... everything changed.

 

:agree:

 

Fetal Heratbeat usually starts between 5-7 weeks. I don't have much against you as it was that early and because of your condition, the girl I told the story about ( way back in this thread ) had an abortion at almost 4 months pregnant and I cut my friendship with her completely because that's just selfish, and if you were to read my story, she was a heartless bitch, I'm not even saying that lightly, so I'll give you space and not get into that.

 

Well, I remember hearing from a young mother ( years ago in high school ) how she was on three different kinds of birth control pill, and that's just plain stupid because you aren't suppose to take more than one.

I think using the pill plus good quality condoms is all you need, and if it still happens then you have to deal with it, it's life, it screws you over sometimes.

 

I dont mean different kinds of pills, just to clear that up. But for a while, I was looking into the spermicide creams, along with polyurethane condoms, with birth control, and I just kept searching for more and more things.

I don't anymore, I got over it... but it was difficult at first. It's not that I was that stupid before, but sometimes things just really really open your eyes, and well, literally scare the shit out of you.

Im currently on the pill + poly condoms... and Im leaving it at that. But I still feel scared a lot of times... I still try to plan it around my "fertile" periods and shit... I dont know. There's some things that just take time to be brave about again. (but not TOO brave, to the point of ignorance, you know what I mean)

 

Ah! so you ARE god...

And of course it's NOT selfish to cut your friendship with someone because you disagreed with her actions? Some friend you are...

Yes, and heartless bitches make GREAT mothers!

Oh, highholy Judge, jury, and executioner.......We be so beholden to ya missa massa fer your compassion.

 

This is the problem with abortion debates... even those who dont mean to pass judgement will, because it gets everyone angry.

Truth is, I can see all sides of the argument, but whether or not its "wrong" isnt completely the question... the question is, what is going to keep young mothers from either, having backalley abortions and dying or get hurt in the process, what is going to keep mothers from dying during labor/pregnancy, and what is going to also keep the number of mothers that have children unwillingly and stuff them in garbage cans.

I mean, I am not the one to say whether or not abortion is moral. We can't be the judge of that. But we can keep our women happy and healthy, and have children on this earth that are also happy and healthy.

Aside from those questions, if youre pro-life, you have to ask yourself, what are YOU going to do to make it so that abortion does not have to exist? Are you going to fight for women to have more leverage on tubal litigations, and better birth control? Birth control pills for men? Etc.

Are you going to advocate safe sex for teenagers and such?

Point is, you can't just ban abortion, without some way to prevent these pregnancies in the first place. And leaving things the way they are is not going to help. Birth control isnt very reliable, and its bullshit that the woman has the right to abort but not much of a right to have a tubal if she decides she doesnt want kids. I dont know what the deal is, but if Doctors are worried that the woman is going to come after them after she gets a tubal and decides she wants children, maybe there should be some papers signed that says they can not be held reliable for that. Something. Because, it's not fair to women to just be stuck in a situation where they have no legal rights to get out of it.

It's okay for men to leave the woman when shes pregnant, and well, besides child support, stay out of her life for the rest of that kids upbringing if he chooses to... but if you ban abortion then a woman just gets to be stuck with that kind of thing? or, go through 9 months of pregnancy, all by herself?

Abortion might be something women will regret later, but adoption sings the same song. Many women who do adoption, go through a lot, wondering if they made the right decision, wondering where their kid is, if he/she has a good home, and maybe later have to prepare themselves for the kid to be knocking on their door one day.

Not every one is saying that not "having a chance at life" is a better way, but really, all sides are pretty much equal. Either way its going to be a tough situation, mostly for the mother, and thats why she needs to feel comfortable with it.

We are not the only creatures that "kill babies"... many animals in nature, WILL kill their babies if they have too many and cant handle it, and such. My ex used to breed mice to feed to his snake... One of the females was pregnant, and he put her in a separate cage. She had the babies, and about 2 hours after she had the litter of mice (eyes werent open, they couldnt really move yet), we found all the pink mice drowning in the water dish.

Im not saying its right, but its also not uncommon in nature. If a female doesnt feel she can handle taking care of babies, she will act out in desperation. And its going to happen no matter whether its legal or not.

I can tell you, it doesnt matter whether its legal, because the way I felt, being so scared, if it would have been illegal, I probably would have been one of those coat hanger women. When a woman is that desperate, do you really think it being illegal is going to scare her into not doing it? I dont.

Laws dont serve to keep people from doing things, they serve the purpose of punishing anyone who disobeys those laws. You can have all the laws you want, and people are going to do what they want to do. The only difference is they will be punished for it.

And who are any of you to say whether or not a mother should be punished for aborting a baby? Its not your call to judge. Especially if you believe in god, you should believe that god will take care of it. You dont have to for him/her/it.

 

P.S. I would gladly serve time in jail/prison for doing something I believe was right.

At least I'd have some fucking dignity.