Banning religions

I read on another's thread in the Atheist forum that they felt we should ban all religions and that all relgions are evil. While I am not going to get into all the definitions, one is someone who commits sins, sinning by definition is to break a divine law. So, banning religion would prevent evil by definition, since there would be no divine law. Doesn't mean that evil would stop, just couldn't really call it evil anymore. Would just be immoral.

However, and I do not mean to point out anyone poster, but there are several of them and this is the first example I found that I wanted to share. I have not gone into their forum demanding that they prove that God exists. I am tired of it, and if God felt one iota of what I feel when people were demanind He show proof of Himself and His power, as I do when I get these post that are off topic of what I was requesting or talking about, it is extreme sadness for these people.
Now I have posted replies to a couple people on other posts, and I will not do it again, these just seems to encourage them and is really the equivalent to a high school prank or harrassment.
Now, I also apologize to these people that I can not give them absolute proof. Maybe if I dedicated my entire life to researching I could come up with proof. I do not feel I need to prove to anyone that there is a God, I know there is.
Now lo and behold, say hypothetically that there is no God, well yippee for you that do not believe. I mean what will you have gained? A little satisfaction harrassing the Christians? It isn't bothering me at all, I don't need to feel accepted by you to get through my life. And if you are right, you won't really know until you are dead, and if there is not a God as you say, then you won't know then either for there is nothingness when you are dead. If you are right, then why aren't you out living your life to the fullest, it according to you is the only life you have, so go live it.

This was copied from another forum the OP is in quotes:

"So why is religion the root of all evil? Ironically religion defines evil as the opposing force to divinity. For all realistic purposes it’s just another synonym for bad aspects of this world we live in. The biggest problem I have with religion is how it can be used as an excuse to give in to evil. "

Umm, no, according to most religions that I know, we are not supposed to commit evil. If we do, we are supposed to go and confess our sins. Religion is a reason not to commit evil. Without religion, society as we know it would not exist. Religion is what gave us our first set of laws, our first set of moral guidelines. How fast did people progress before a set of morals told them it ws wrong to kill? How many years of living in caves did people have in comparison to the time that it took for computers to go from being room size to being pocket sized? Society has advanced much further with religion that it would have without. There have been many incidents where things were done in the name of religions that are considered autrocities. However, politics were also involved in those autrocities. It is not religion that gives man excuse to commit evil, but man that uses religion as an excuse to commit evil. Unfortunately, it is hard to know what the original version of the Bible stated. We do not speak Hebrew, even Hebrew people do not speak the same Hebrew that was spoken back then. As we do not speak the same English as was spoken when the Bible was translated. All we can do is live as morally correct as we can, ask forgiveness when we commit a sin and hope that God will forgive us. But not intentionally commit a sin, thinking it does not matter because God will forgive us.




"All the complexities of a brutal and ugly world can be washed away with a simple “God’s Great Plan” exclamation. Or, “The will of God”, did you know that it’s Gods will that 95% of the 30 Billion “souls” on this planet live in utter poverty. Multiply that by every generation of mankind that’s existed for the past 12 Million years… that’s a lot of suffering, that’s a lot of reasons to need to believe in something greater, more beautiful and eternal. The belief that this world is just a test, that God is in control of the planets welfare is an extremely dangerous and destructive concept. No matter if you’re blowing yourself up in a crowd of “infidels” in return for what you believe to be eternal bliss or dumping industrial waste into the ocean with the belief that God can fix anything. "

First, God gave us a will of our own. In the Old Testiment it was man that was jealous of what other cultures had, worshipping idols, and having laws. Man requested a set of laws and God gave them laws. God's will is not that we suffer, do you not think that man had a hand in the world's suffering? In mans' need for advancement and material possession, we have industrial waste. God does not tell us to live for material possessions, it is our own greed that has created these problems. Humans have stumbled through life with the mentality of a child that will stick his finger on something hot the moment you tell him not to. Maybe if man had listened from the beginning, we would still live in the Garden and not know these problems. It is selfish and has been selfish for us to blame God for the sorry state of the world.



"After all, God is supposed to be perfect, how else can he provide the promise of a heavenly afterlife. So there must be a “Perfectly” good explanation why Trillions of souls need to suffer first on an unfair and imperfect world. Of course I’m being sarcastic, I don’t believe in God or heaven. A perfect God has absolutely no reason to create misery. "


Well, first what happens when you give a kid everything, he becomes a brat, right? Then when he is older and you give him a new car, he doesn't appreciate it. In history, we have been given everything, and we wanted more, we were not happy with what we had, we are like greedy children that still want more. You complain of the suffering in the world, you say there is no God, but say that those of us who do, should be outraged at the suffering. I am, outraged, but since you do not believe in God, why don't you do something about it instead of complaining about a God you do not believe in to do something about it? You're a great help to those suffering people. Christians do not sit around doing nothing about it. Do not come back at me saying that Billy Bob is a Christian and does things that we, as Christians are not supposed to do, either Billy Bob is NOT a Christian and is using it to hide behind, or Billy Bob is a Christian and is either confused about the beliefs or has made a mistake. Just because someone calls themselves a Christian while committing a horrible act does not mean it is the belief of all Christians.Yes, there is corruption and wrong doing in the Church, that doesn't mean the entire church is wrong. The government does wrong all the time in the name of government, doesn't mean it is right. Just as there are many ways to interpret laws, there are many ways to interpret passages in the Bible.

"Say I’m wrong, and this world is a test of souls. Wouldn’t the ultimate test be to try and make this world as beautiful a place as humanly possible? If a religious persons first and foremost priorities are God and Heaven then Earth and Mankind are second at best. "

It may be a test of souls, but we designed the test. Yes, that is the goal, to put others before yourself. Why don't you start helping make the world beautiful by not attacking people for what they believe. Now, this isn't a big challenge, let's see if you are up for it.


"A religious person once argued to me that evolution doesn’t exist because Scientists can't agree on the details. So there’s two schools of thought on evolution, how many religions are there on this planet? I don’t see scientists strapping bombs to their bodies and attacking other scientists."

Well, first I am female, and I say all males are stupid because the have facial hair. Yeah, that doens't make sense. I see your argument, however, I wasn;t there for the argument so I don't know verbatim what the conversation was. However, taken as is, it is not an intelligent argument on your friends part. However, and this is stretching it a bit, but a better argument for your friend to say, is evolution is still in theoretical stages since scientist can not agree on the details. In my oppinion, evolution can exists, (oh I hear the gasp, but what she believes in God AND evolution), who says that the evolution on man was not God creating man in steps? We have no measurement of time back then. No scientists are not strapping bombs on their chest, but scientist designed the bombs, the nuclear weapons, and the biological warfare. Corrupt government has had a hand in creating these terrorists. As I previoulsy said, it is man that is using religion as an excuse to commit these crimes.


"I’m not going to pretend I know why the universe exists, but it certainly is not born of a God that exists in the religious mind. To think that such a power would be so egotistical and shallow"

To think that we are supreme beings and there is no higher power is egotistical. By your beliefs we are all the most intelligent species there is nothing higher than us.


In closing, since many people seem to want to come here and post random off topic posts to our questions or discussions, I thought I would feed myself to the wolves and give them somewhere to attack.

BTW, I have read that someone said that we Christians get mad when they say prove it and we can't prove it, because it shows us our belief in religion isn't as great as we think, but as I responded, the fact we believe without proof shows that our faith is great. I will continue posting here, and I may respond to some of these posters, it will depend on how bored I am, but I will not allow these posts to deter me from what I originally came here to do: asks questions about religions, try to learn more, and help when I can.

Sorry, to people of other faiths, I do not know enough about other religions to add your side of the argument to this, but feel free to addyour points. I came here to learn about other religions as well, not to be close minded.

 

My advice to Atheists or Agnostics who are entertaining the idea of banning belief systems:
You ought to be concerned about one of the worlds religions banning you.
Not the other way around.

 

You'd probably love to have a hand in that.

 

I bet you really suspect that.

 

i don't believe banning things like religions will work. In fact, history shows that in places where an attempt to ban them takes place, it actually tends to stregnthed the belief. With c/anity it is built into the whole philosophy - christians get a buzz it seems, from thinking of themselves as persecuted.


Illogocal, irrelevant and frankly untrue beliefs can only be combatted through education and development. Menatime, no religion should be allowed political power - they should all be subject to purely secular authority.

 

I am an athiest through and through.
I have no desire whatsoever to ban religion.

What a stupid idea...telling people what they can and can't believe.

 

What is your Religion Blakey?

 

This is certainly an interesting thought, however isn't that in some way punnishing the religious?

I feel that there should be a chinese wall between church and state, but I do not necessarily thing a religious man cannot be king/president/whatever.

Religion is little more than a philosophy believed en masse...and it is far far better to have a philosopher king than a king with no philosophy...

 

I think there wll always be people that believe and people that do not believe. I don't think it is going to change. While in a perfect world we would all have the same beliefs and values, it's not going to happen anytime soon. However forcing someone what to or not to believe is not going to be the answer. Any one who forces a person or group of people to believe what they do is going to meet with resistence. Even if it has nothing to do with resistence.
According to some of the post, there has been discussion about radical Christians and Muslims, how is banning religion and persecuting us for our religions anything less than being a radical atheist by your terms?
However, there is not a written law for atheists, or written practice, just the disbelief or denial that there is a God, there is not a code of atheists where someone says that it is the role of all atheists to ban religions. Have you not been paying attention to history? Wars are fought over religion, and people trying to make another group of people have their beliefs. Just as Hitler wanted to wipe out other races, you want to wipe out religion. It's been tried for thousands of years.
I respect a person's right to religion or no religion. I do not think anyone is less than me for picking another religion, or for beeing an atheist. I think we all have the right to be here and believe what we want.
I was disappointed as each law that was passed took God out of the laws and schools. I understood the reasoning for it, but I do disagree that a child is not allowed to talk about their beliefs. Part of me wanted to protest the removal of God, however, that is not what this country is based on. I respect that.
But the day this country changes it's mind and decided to take away our freedoms in speech and religion, is the day this country would no longer be America. I would fight for what this country stands for, as long as it stands for us and our rights. I will not sit back and let anyone take away our rights as Americans. My father has fought in two wars to protect these rights, if they hadn't told him he was too old, he would have fought in a third. Take away religion and what do you take away next? Right to speak more than one language, carry a gun, make everyone wear uniforms? You can not take away another persons rights just because you don't agree with it.

 

It depends on the philopsophy concerned. Adolph Hitler for instance had philosophy. Some of the kings and queens of england who held religious views instigated massive persecutions against menbers of the 'other' faith.

My point is that since there are many religions, if one gains political ascendency, it will tend to put the other down - as for example, in Northern Ireland, where a potestant majority, who were politically empowered to some extent, dominated and kept down the catholics in many ways, including economic.

The idea held by some that their particular religion is the 'one true way' is extremely dangerous if such peolle have power over others. And too often, it will be abused for political ends. Look at Iran.

 

Well, making statements like getting rid of religionthrough education is a form of persecution. It implies that we are stupid and uneducated because we believe in God.

What it points out is that you are predjudice against a group of people, very close minded. It is discrimintation? What's next on your agenda? Banning people of other color than you? Other languages? You going to teach a person it is not ok to believe in God and then it's not ok to be a different race? That their relatives were stupid for their beliefs? You can not educate a person against religion, it is a belief. Just as there isn't an ability to educate against love. You are hoping to take religion out by quiet force, sort of a hostile takeover. Well, sorry, but I am not selling my stock in religion, and I will pass it down to my chldren.

Just as you do not want your child to be forced to learn about religion, I do not want my child to be forced to learn your doubts.

 

I don't have a particular religion - I've looked into most of them over time.
Whilst I don't reject the idea of a higher intelligence, I don't believe any of the current religions, which are nearly all corrupt, have much of an inkling as to what that might be.
I am more on the side of things like eastern religions, shamanism and so on than the big established cults we have in the west. However, I think that we are entering a new age where the old religions will simply disappear in due course, as they belong to the past, not the future.
Future religion will have to be scientific and verifiable, unlike popular religions of today which demand blind faith in a particualr book, and can only resort to threats of damnation to convince people to believe.
A religion based on fear, like c/anity, is simply an emotional comforter as far as I can see. And it is wholly illogical in its structure.

If peole want to persist in that belief, it's ok with me, so long as they don't cause trouble in the wider world - but unfortunately, cults like Islam and C/anity seem incapable of this. That's why they have to be contained and controlled by secular law. However, I also think I have a perfect right to criticize what I consider dangerous, pointless and highly irrational beliefs.

 

Good points, all of them.

It's really all kind of silly isn't it. A very religious person would be insulted by me calling it silly...but especially with Islam, Judeism, and Christianity...they share the same god, but because their traditions are different, they can't seem to find a way to get along. This I truly don't understand.

Take 3 sects of christianity..we'll even make them all protestant.
Lets go with Baptist, Episc., and one of those non-denominational semi evangelical super churches.

They will disagree on many many things, just like Jud., Chrsit., and Islam, but they will all agree on many things too....just like Judeism, Christianity, and Islam.

I just really have a hard time when the "Fundamantal" differences between the cultures are traditions and words...we should be able to get by traditions and words. This is an indictment of ALL 3 of those religions. Why can't they all be right?...When it comes down to it they're all wrong anyways....(just kidding............kinda)

 

and I feel they should learn both. Slippery slope though, because there is just so much to learn about religion, and I really feel that if you're going to teach one, you have to be prepared to teach them all.

 

"It depends on the philopsophy concerned. Adolph Hitler for instance had philosophy. Some of the kings and queens of england who held religious views instigated massive persecutions against menbers of the 'other' faith.

My point is that since there are many religions, if one gains political ascendency, it will tend to put the other down - as for example, in Northern Ireland, where a potestant majority, who were politically empowered to some extent, dominated and kept down the catholics in many ways, including economic.

The idea held by some that their particular religion is the 'one true way' is extremely dangerous if such peolle have power over others. And too often, it will be abused for political ends. Look at Iran."

Telling us we do not have the right to believe in God is not different than the reverse and being told you have to believe. Just because someone calls themself from a religion does not mean that they represent that religious majority. if someone gets on tv and says I hate all races and anyone not American should die and this is the view of all Americans, a majority of Americans would tell you this is not the view of all Americans and that this person is insane. Same as people I visited in Jordan said that these suicide bombings in the Muslim name are insane.
__________________

 

"and I feel they should learn both. Slippery slope though, because there is just so much to learn about religion, and I really feel that if you're going to teach one, you have to be prepared to teach them all."

I do not feel there is anything wrong with learning about all religions or lack of religion. I was taught about many religions as a kid. But while teaching both sides, I am not going to allow my kids feel like they are stupid for believing in God.

 

They do not share the same God.
The first distinction is the easiest one - Allah.
Allah is a different 'god' than the JudeoChristian God.

Ok,
To put the other two in order you can look at it this way... Christians do believe in the Jewish God.
But,
What we call 'Jews' now (and this means those who still reject Christ) do not share the Christian God.

How can I put this another way hmmm?
Christian believe in Yahwey/Holy Spirit/Christ
Jews believe in Yahwey

But yeah, Allah is a 'Moon God' who is some other 'god' than the JudeoChristian one.


As far as Baptist/Lutheran/Catholic type differences you have no real problem here when it comes to the 'essentials'.
Quite honestly, the differences are all on 'side issues' more than anything and nothing to do with the Nature of God or the Basics there.

 

I have no objection to religions being taught to children - but under a subject heading such as 'social anthropology'.

I don't really want to persecute people for a belief - but I also demand the same in return, and in many countries where religion rules, like Iran, I would not get such consideration from the religious authorities. If christians had similar power to the Mullahs, I think they'd soon prove themselves just as bad. As they did in medieval europe, with their heresy trials etc.

So - feel free to pass the infection onto your kids if that's what you see fit to do - but don't expect political power to impose your beliefs on others beyond your little family group.

 

It's not a matter of being 'stupid because you believe in god'. It is more to do with the conception of god, the so-called record of his activities etc which is stupid.

It would be equally stupid for humanity to allow itself to be governed by any particular religious authority, as it could only lead to even more conflict with those with different beliefs.

 

And though I misspoke in a couple of places, that was the crux of my point...

Now I have to go find the Islamic dude that said it was the same god and kick him in the nuts for making me look dumb.