A new proof for the existence of god

The universe is everything that can be known, can exist can be imagined etc etc etc-
no matter what lies outside the universe if it becomes known to us we can incorporate it into the term "universe"

the universe is that, than which nothing can be greater"

We do not exist in the universe
we are not separate from the universe
therefore we are part of the universe

we are made of atoms and molecular structures such as hydrogen - etc etc
these things are found in other bits of the universe like stars trees etc so we really are not distinct from that which exists around us and with us
However we are a part of the universe that thinks

since we cannot be thinking about anything outside the universe
because whatever we are thinking about is incorporated into the term "universe" as well as the thinking itself being incorporated
it stands to reason that we must be part of the universe thinking about other parts of the universe

That is - we are the universe thinking about itself - and to all intents and purposes that would put us in the position of claiming the title "god"
the human race is the thinking component of god - the universe god
god is the universe thinking about itself and we, the human race are collectively god - god is us - the universe thinking about itself
because there is nothing else the universe could possibly think about

We manipulate the universe - turn bits of the universe into cars magazines space craft, computers etc - god is not that being in the holy books - god is us - and possibly god is also all other life forms having the attribute of sentience as well - tigers aliens chimpanzees ants wasps etc but certainly humankind

 

and of course this is what it really boils down to for the antithiests:
"I am God"

 

what ever makes you feel safe...significant.

 

If something more significant is discovered outside of our known universe then a new definition and term for the previous universe will be created. For instance there was probably a time where we didn’t realize multiple galaxies existed so the known universe was our single galaxy.



I wouldn’t say we are Gods, be we may possibly be the closest thing to it. There may be other intelligent species scattered around out there but I don’t think any are exploring the universe at light speed or anything like that. Even if light speed travel was possible they could still be billions of light years away.

 

That time was the early 1920's

There are other intelligent species...ours only JUST qualifies

Occam

 

I'm not an antitheist - nor am I an atheist, at least not when I propose the propositions contained in the first post. I am a theist when I say I am, and not a theist when I choose not to argue the point - my interest is logic and proof and what Wittgenstein calls "bewitchment of language"

What makes me feel safe is a lot different to what I think -
I hold that both the above is true that man is god - and at the same time I offer the idea that there is no god - I defend both but not necessarily at the same time

Well said, but god needent be omnipotent and omnipresent that might be a misnomer

god needs only to be as intelligent as man, infact god need only be as intelligent as an ant - I am arguing that allspecies that are sentient qualify equally - an ant is the universe thinking about itself from the perspective of an ant - god is everything that can view the universe
from some perspective or other - in some way or other

I am offering a proposition of god argued inductivly from empirical evidence - so that given that there is a universe this is one explanation of god

 

Columbo

Yes.. the sensorium of an ant is just as valid as a perspective
on our observed universe as that of a human.

Who is to say which umwelt a god would define as the most valid.
After all, inscts have been here far longer than we have and have
many charactaristics that might carry them way past 'our time'.
Hive minds are a proposition of much interest.
Maybe far more stable than human 'civilization'.

well said
'a jouney of discovery is not visiting new places, but seeing with new eyes'

occam

 

Well, if like I say, the universe is all one thing then surely the ant is merely a part of whatever we are - which is the universe - if we are the universe thinking about itself - we are NOW at this time putting in effort to think about that part of the universe we call the species of ant. When we disturb an ant nest they might think about what it is in the universe that caused the disturbance. surely my claim is that if there is a god there is only one god and that god is identical to the universe. We are merely the part of the universe that can think along with many other thinking components - non being better than the other just different. We are the universe thinking about itself from a human perspective - the universe is like a distributed network - a neural network I guess with different methods of thinking about itself an ant is life therefore as sacred as us - with a claim to be part of the thinking process of the universe
If we were wiped out some other species would be in our position in the food chain but may take millions of years to evolve to our position in the technology stakes

 

My only question is, why call it god? We already have a term, its called Universe (and everything in it) Is there a point to calling it god when there is already an identity associated with "everything"? Is it out of some need to have a belief in "god" when we already believe in the universe?

 

I agree, this would seem more of an attempt to redefine what a God is.

 

Brilliant - I have tried this argument on others and they never spotted that - neither did I but now ya mention it it seems obvious - ha - gimme some time to have a think on that

Actually yes I think it is in a way - it would satisfy those who wanted to worship it and would stop the idea of a non existent god - but no even that dont work does it

GREAT ! something to really think about 4 me - cheers thanks !
That really is one heck of a question

 

There won't really be a problem to hold on to this idea, it gives the appearance of being "spiritual" and most theists seem to be a little more tolerant towards anyone who believes in some kind of god rather than no god at all. You could call yourself a Universalist? Of course then, you may be asked to explain at that point. Personally, I see no need to give it a new name to appear to be "spiritual", I have no problem telling anyone that I'm atheist if they ask. Honestly, it doesn't come up all that often, but when they do ask, it's even more rare that they ask me to explain, and usually just leave it at that and change the subject LOL.

 

Here's a link to 10 years worth of evidence for your new god, which is more than other theists can provide.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/calendar/allyears.html

 

wow thats one awesome link, cheers man !
BOOKMARKED !

Actually if I am TOTALLY honest with people I would say my views are agnostic since I test my theory that the universe is god - and I test my atheism - they both seem equally true to me and I wonder if I am some kind of bhuddist at the end of the day

In light of what you said earlier the best I can now think is that I find the universe a spiritual thing it is MY god. I dont believe god is the invisible man I see god everywhere and in everything I look at but it is not the god in the holy books this is something much greater
every situation - relation and thought belongs to one thing - the universe
It is the reason I am moral - to harm anything is to harm myself

The universe is one thing than which nothing is greater and some of it buys "hello" magazine ! right now part of the universe is drinking tea, while another part of the universe flits around as a flock of birds

 

Columbo

Well said indeed.

Occam

 

In a round about way, I agree with all that you say. The universe (per that link) is just awe inspiring and is what prompted me to get into amateur astronomy. When I look through my little 8" diameter telescope and some faint gray fuzzy galaxy (the eyepiece never looks anything like the pictures) I still have a warm fuzzy feeling that the light that entered my retinas took millions of light years to reach me. I'm looking at what the galaxy looked like millions of years ago, not what it looks like today. We are so small and insignificant compared to the size of the observable universe, hell, it even takes 8 minutes for the light from our own sun to reach us. Our sun has been around aproximately 5 billion years, and in another 5 billion, it will be gone, along with earth as it will be eaten up by our sun as it expands into super nova, then explodes, blowing star stuff out for hundreds of light years in distance. Over time, the particles from that explosion will gather under gravity and ignite a new star and it will start all over again. We are a blip in time in the eyes of the Universe.

 

Isdarts

Cool...Occam watched the apollo 11 command/lem unit orbiting the moon in
1969 through uncles 10 inch reflector.
Thus he knows the 'we didnt go there' popular rubbish to be just that.

But how can you say the earth wil be consumed by the sun...
THATS EVOLUTION....hahahahhaaa [sorry sarcasm is low humour]

Cant say evolution,,it doesnt happen. Yet is damn real in astrophysics.
A conundrum
SO in reality. deterministic mater/energy/space.. evolves.

Yet some say 'life' does not.

Occam [gobble gobble said the turkey]

 

Well of course this is only "Belief' and I can't prove it because none of us will be here in 5 billion years to confirm it, so it's only a "belief" <wink wink> I'm guessing thats when Armagedon will happen.

 

Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.