Legislation is needed 2 drive religion out

I truly believe that the time is now right and that we have all, well enough people have, seen through the idiocy, lies, and stupid hypocrisy of all religion.
It should be in the best interests of mankind to urge governments to drive out religion from all aspects of education and to insist that schools teach only the basis of good facts and that reason is better than religion, that logic is better than faith, that morality is better than dogma, that blind acceptance of anything written is a fools procedure, and that god is a complete fantasy of deluded people who cannot accept a full and responsible attitude toward society and the care of fellow humans no matter what their colour or class.
I believe that before the world becomes embroiled in the affairs of these schizophrenic people that say there is an invisible creature controlling us, and get more war and bloodshed on a scale of WW1 and 2 - we should drive religion with a vengeance from the west and push it to its eastern homelands - where we are safe from its tyranny
It is time the children of the west were taught properly and were free of fantasist nonesense that christianity, islam, Judaism and the rest of these pathetic mindsets preach

 

One of the good things about some of our western societies is that we have great freedom of ideas, religions, philosophies and political ideologies (in a relative sense).
Total blanket censorship of religion like this will be seen as oppression and will only spark even more religious extremism and would be totally counter-productive. If you really believe all religion to be totally flawed then why not open it up to discussion and prove it in the classrooms in discussions rather than outrightly censoring and oppressing it? Sounds very totalitarian/fascist to me. If I wanted this i'd go to live in China...

Your comment: "we should drive religion with a vengeance from the west and push it to its eastern homelands" also displays some pretty pronounced xenophobia and ignorance (not all religion comes from the 'eastern homelands' as you so beautifully put it.).

On the one hand you are saying that schools should teach people to be more objective and not accept anything on blind faith, but on the other you are saying we should just totally "drive out [all religious ideas]...with a vengeance from the west to it's eastern homelands"...Do you think that kind of action is really going to teach people that "reason..logic..morality" is better than blind faith? No, it's only going to send a message of intolerance, and a message that the government wont tolerate certain ideas that they don't like by passing legislation...What would be censored next? Political dissent? 'Wrong' ideologies? Ideas that are against the governemnt?

I'm sorry, but I enjoy my freedom, I am thankful to live in a society where we can freely discuss ideologies, religions, and dissent against the government. I may not agree with what others say, but I tolerate it. Like i'm tolerating this post!

You are claiming to want a society that has "a responsible attitude toward society and the care of fellow humans no matter what their colour or class." but if they have a religious concept, then god help them (no witty pun intended!)! You are (apparently) all for equality, no matter what race or social class, but if people have anything that sounds like a religious ideology then they aren't allowed to discuss it at all...It's like saying "oh, i'm not rascist, but those jews are greedy fuckers".

I'm all for removing the 'forced religion' from schools e.g having to go to assembly to sing christian hymns then having some vicar preach from a bible, but to pass legislation to "drive out religion from ALL aspects of education" is totalitarianism...I'd rather endure a hour long christian sermon eevry day for the rest of mylife than go down that road...Sorry, but it's clear you haven't thought this through at all and this post was just made in anger.

All the best.

 

and you wonder why I say that fascism is the 'logical conclusion' for atheism.

 

Wrong end of the stick, old chap, this is a bona-fide anarchist talking - I dont need religion, government nor anyone to legislate over the actions of me - I am autonomous and a man - not a child that cannot reason and not a dogmatist that does not think for for themselves -
I write the book, my friend I dont need an author to script my life

You seem to think morality is a possession of religion - it is not - religion gave up the right to dictate my morality when it damn well preached the right to take life in its name - it gave up the right to teach our kids when it preaches nonesense and irrelevence and violence, and seeks money for some platitudinous dogma
Since I do not support religion as a moral statement I do not see why our government asks me for tax to pay for state funded religious schools
Infact unless they make all religious schools private schools and unsubsidised I will stop paying tax
Many people feel this way - I think there is a backlash against religion coming very soon and to be quite honest - It is religion that is fascism
What I am calling for is that liberalists become less tollerant of fascist religions and fascist politicians

That is a tactic tried in Britain without success for 400 years it lead to the rise of catholic and anglican terrorists from ireland bombing us - now because we were tollerant of muslims for 60 years they are bombing us - with religion on our land we cannot live in peace - better to crush it now before we are bombed for another 20 years like we were between 1970 and 1990 ish

 

The intellectual dishonesty is astonishing Columbo.
How blatantly ignorant do you have to be to pretend that IRA violence has or ever had anything to do with religion, religious teachings or Christianity in any way or form.
Im talking on every angle here, in practice, in theory in reality.. whatever you like.

But consider this, the IRA violence you saw was IN SPITE of and going AGAINST both Protestant and Catholic Christian teachings.
In fact,
IF ONLY people WERE practicising Christianity these things would NOT be done.

So if you claim to be against violence, injustice and hate (and I think you love these things) but if you say you are - then Christianity is your answer.

You know this.
But you have fucked up your head and heart and want to just drive drive drive to a false concept of reality anyways.

 

Stop throwing your intellectual dishonesty poop around. Saying it has nothing to do with religion is like saying “Fudge has nothing to do with sugar”. We all know it’s part of the mixture.

The IRA battle is Class division as much as religious division. Just like all wars, each side draws power and support from their religion. Some of the most violent places on earth are also the most religious, funny how that is.

 

Some of the most peaceful places on earth are also the 'most religious', what's your point?

"The IRA battle is Class division as much as religious division. Just like all wars, each side draws power and support from their religion."

So now you're backing down from your 'religion is the root of all evil' ramblings by accepting that other factors are too blame too? "Part of the mixture" as you say...Make your mind up!

"That is a tactic tried in Britain without success for 400 years it lead to the rise of catholic and anglican terrorists from ireland bombing us - now because we were tollerant of muslims for 60 years they are bombing us - with religion on our land we cannot live in peace - better to crush it now before we are bombed for another 20 years like we were between 1970 and 1990 ish"

You are really talking absolute nonsense now by suggesting the IRA bombings had anything to do with our schools policies on religious education...Truly laughable.

It's bordrering on the insane the lengths some athiests will go too to convince themselves and other people that religion is at the heart of all the negative issues in the world today. I think these kinds of athiests could turn out to become more of a threat to society than the religious extremists they are so keen to preach against. It's the brand new fashionable religion, the religion of anti-religion. The hypocrisy is outstanding:

"You are claiming to want a society that has "a responsible attitude toward society and the care of fellow humans no matter what their colour or class." but if they have a religious concept, then god help them (no witty pun intended!)! You are (apparently) all for equality, no matter what race or social class, but if people have anything that sounds like a religious ideology then they aren't allowed to discuss it at all...It's like saying "oh, i'm not rascist, but those jews are greedy fuckers"."

One question you chose to completely ignore which i'd like an answer too;

"On the one hand you are saying that schools should teach people to be more objective and not accept anything on blind faith, but on the other you are saying we should just totally "drive out [all religious ideas]...with a vengeance from the west to it's eastern homelands"...Do you think that kind of action is really going to teach people that "reason..logic..morality" is better than blind faith?"

If so, how?

"Wrong end of the stick, old chap, this is a bona-fide anarchist talking - I dont need religion, government nor anyone to legislate over the actions of me - I am autonomous and a man - not a child that cannot reason and not a dogmatist that does not think for for themselves -
I write the book, my friend I dont need an author to script my life"

You claim to be an anarchist, yet you are saying we need STATE legilastion, which is highly authoritarian and requires an authoritarian state.
You claim to be a anarchist, but at the same time you are saying you want a governing AUTHORITY to ENFORCE a legislation that would be restricting peoples freedom, a basic civil liberty, of religion. Can you explain the contradictions for us please?
Would you also ban political ideologies that are deemed 'authoritarian'? How would you do this without an authoritarian government to impose authoritarian legislations? And how would these legislations be enforced without a authoritarian governing body?

 

Is this the best you can come up with - I never said the ira had anything to do with education - why you are so fucked up is because if I had just demanded an end to islamic religion you wouldnt have said a word against it - but because your religion is under fire you are flustered - perhaps you should go back and read what I have written before you argue a point - if you cant understand a simple construction like the argument above dont bother replying you just make yourself look silly

Not at all thats what the muslims say about jews and visa versa - I know because I discuss religion at great lengths with muslims - also IF YOU FUCKIN BOTHERED TO READ WHAT I HAD WRITTEN INSTEAD OF GOBBIN OFF A LOAD OF TRITE AND DERELICT RESPONSES YOU MAY HAVE READ WHERE I SAID THAT I WANT LEGISLATION TO DRIVE OUT STATE FUNDED RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS
IU am not against jews = I am against the dogma of religious sects such as christianity, judaism , islam- if the priests and vicars want to practice that and teach that - then let them live somewhere else THEIR HATRED AND INTOLLERANCE IS WHAT CAUSES WAR - not my desire for them to stop that hatred - nt my desire to end religion but their desire to be seen as belonging to the correct religion - THEYRE THE RASCISTS YOU IDIOT !! JEWS CHISTIANS MUSLIMS - I never known such a rascist bunch of morons till I started engaging with people from these religions - it is their hatred of each other that causes half the worlds problems -

No but it will stop future children not yet born - centuries into the future from being enslaved by dogma and the crass and stoneage thought that there is a god - best move on from the days of human infancy and find a better solution - best not sit on your fat arse thinking god will save us - we must save people of the future from the apathy and ignorance of religion and thereby save ourselves from war and intollerance - you have to act like a cop to beat a cop - huh - takes a theif to catch a theif

 

The whole “root” analogy itself IMPLIES being a PART, not the whole. I never said Religion was absolute Evil. It is a large part of a system man has made up to excuse and justify his own “evil”. Of course there are many complex triggers, factors and sociologies that create terrible events.

I have found most objections to these posts to be extremely narrow minded, and full of flawed reasoning. Every post like this just demonstrates your lack of understanding of basic concepts and simple common sense.

There’s no reasoning with insanity, and there’s no reason why I should have to run around in circles explaining basic concepts in replies to irrational posts.

 

You seriously overestimate "people". Most people are as smart as dried paint. Religion has a good a hold now as it has in the last 100 years. The best we can do is coax folks toward moderate religion and away from fundemental nitwitism.

 

Columbo

This would be a most disasterous path to take.

You load the magazines of the righteous and give them a target.

Occam

 

Columbo, stop ignoring my questions.

 

What is democracy?
What is communism?
What is totalitarianism?

The dogma of each is explained..but not required to be followed

What is religion? should also be so taught. The same way.

Occam

 

What like the USA - the fact is that a report out by the USA's government (I believe but may need to check which organisation produced it) Said that in times when religion prospers so does violence on the streets and that there is something to be said for the fact that religion causes violence - are you saying also that religion is not responsible for war ??? HA HA HA ! well I gotta see someone tell me that those arent religious people theyre political extremists using religion as an excuse huh? and what if there were no more excuses - what if religion did not exist - then their phoney excuses would be seen in a true light
Looks to me like theyre religious extremists using politics as an excuse huh ?

You see the idea of a secular state is to separate the idea that one's religion is one's politics - they are not - ones politics can be different from one's religion - like in Britain and the USA, where it is written into their constitution or customs

Of couse the next time a bomb explodes in London maybe I should say - "well when he shouted ""Allah"" as he detonated that thing - he didnt mean it " so we can at least call him a liar - meantime wheres my legs

Perhaps if he had never heard of this concept "allah" the lie - he wouldnt have thought of blowing someone up for that lie - maybe if he was educated to know that one cannot infer the existence of god - he would have seen sense and got a decent job and played a guitar and said lovely things to a woman he loved ! who knows but he certainly wouldnt have had the idea he was off to heaven for his crimes

 

nothing needs to be driven anywhere. if the old soviet union had not made enimys for itself from among its own people by making of belief a defacto enimy, chances are real good it would still be arround to keep capitolism honest.

fanatacism thrives on martyrdom.
idiological and economic fanatacisms are fanatacisms too.

half the reason people turn to organized belief is in rebellion against rationality
just as people become antitheist in reaction to it.

we would certainly be no worse off if no one had ever come up with the idea
that anything needs to be infallable
but trying to make it go away by brute force isn't gonna get us there from here

doing so only gives the intrests of rationality an undeservidly unfortunate reputation
which as occum pointed out, plays directly into the hands of those who use reaction
against imposed belief as a means of manipulation.

kind of a double reverse psychology, that humans seem to be peculiarly gullable to

nor will the repression of anything, nor anything else, ever make anyone "safe from tyranny".
rather it is precisely callous thoughtlessness that gives rise to and creates a market for it.

=^^=
.../\...

 

I propose we need legislation to drive out agnosticism and atheism?
Do we all think thats a cool idea?

But seriously, if it was possible to make Islam disappear tomorrow....

 

why single out islam? the problem isn't this, that or some other particular belief, idiology, et c., but chauvanism and coerciveness itself.

those beliefs, et c., which practice chauvanism, whatever else may be good, bad or indifferent about them, i aggree we would be no worse off without,

just not that we'd be any better, or even not worse, off trying to get rid of any of them forcefully

i would love to live in a world that reguareded everything we can see as sacred, and everything we can't as something that might exist, but about which, we, as we honestly do, know nothing.

=^^=
.../\...

 

I also agree that this would be very dangerous and most likely disastrous.

The vast majority of people need religion. Religion and war has been bred into our DNA for millions of years. Unfortunately what is really threatening the human race right now is the recent addition of industrialization to the mix. We can’t survive another 200 years of industrial pollution. Without this we could have slaughtered each other in holly wars for possibly millions of years to come.

If man can’t get his priorities straight soon, we’ll destroy our environment one way or another. We spend billions of dollars dumping fuel on Middle Eastern disputes all based on religion, hatred, and poisonous fossil fuels. The US and Canadian governments spend 100 times more money investing in fossil fuels than renewable energy.

Education is the most obvious front line. Break the chain by teaching new generations. We need a new system, there’s not one social model out there that works because they all give in to mans weaknesses such as greed. Democracy is a joke, when only fanatics bother to vote, can you call that democracy? Communism and Dictatorship all fall victim to greed and abuse. Government officials should not have external agendas such as owning Oil companies!!
We need social systems in place that will prevent fanatical extremism. More importantly we need a system that will protect the long term interests of mankind and not just short term rewards for greedy individuals. I’d be willing to live in a world full of delusional religious people providing they were truly happy and focused on a sustainable and peaceful future for man than to live in a would full of melancholy unmotivated atheists. But religion is not like that in fact, it’s an excuse to let this world go to “hell”, is the best way to put it.

There’s an interesting two part episode of South Park that kind of relates to this thread. In part one, last week they abolished religion and formed factions of atheists that ended up in their own wars. It portrayed the dangers of atheism becoming a religion with all of the same hatred and ignorance’s of classic religions. I can’t wait to see how it ends.

 

You would have a very difficult time - for one most people are atheists and agnostics - so you have this problem - how you gonna vote enough people in to do it?
secondly since the state (in the USA and UK) is secular there would be a problem of constitution. Now given that in the UK the state provides 100% subsidies for Cristian, Jewish, and Muslim schools - a big question - why should an atheist spend tax on a school which is diametrically opposed to the belief system of that person? Secondly - what is unconstitutional about getting a fully secular society on the political agenda?

I can see that - but who said it needs to be by brute force - everyone is saying in Britain - "oh these muslims are outrageous no respect for the law etc" they have a bad press but we cant just say - "hey - you go away" can we - so maybe its time that religion and reason went head to head in a court of law and settled the dispute once and for all - are we religious - does god exist - can you educate the kids with an unfounded form of pseudo science as though it were true?
Well questions surely have to be raised - I'm not saying drive it out with a gun - I'm saying push the legislation in that would once and for all drive these institutions of madness out - unless they have a good reason not to go -
WHY SHOULD I OR ANYONE ELSE PAY TO EDUCATE KIDS IN RELIGION?
I dont agree with it - so why should the state do it? They are secular no interest in religion - its a constitutional point


EDITED IN LATER

Actually I have had a good think about this and there are several people in this thread whose opinions I respect greatly and I find myself convinced by your arguments against the ideas contained in my first post while still wishing to express my disappointment that in my lifetime I will not see an end to humanities most destructive and unreasonable beliefs - religion

Seriously I am going to adjust my beliefs to a more liberal stance again on the basis of this thread

 

double post