god created us

i've always wondered this and nobody has ever been able to give me a decent answer which is why i concluded God that is refered to in the bible etc... does not exist
if God is supposed to have created us, then he was here before us right? well, if so, who created him into existance?
yeah think about that

 

The way I look at it is like this- man created God, not the other way around.

 

your on an agnostic/atheist forum.......

beielve me......everyone here has "thought" about that lol

 

You did two good things in this post. First you defined what god you were speaking of (the bible god). Secondly, you question his existence. This means you don't just willy nilly "believe" just because some old book says he exists or because your parents told you he exists.

The answer you will always get from "Bible god" believers (christians/jews/muslims) is that god has been around forever. There has never been a time when god hasn't existed. You may also hear that god transcends time. You will hear this usually when the argument goes into the cosmological debate. The universe and space/time "started" 13.7 billion years ago, prior to that, there was no "time". Time began at the big bang, but because god is "outside" of time, he has still always existed. To me this is meaningless. The theist can't explain what "outside of time" means. No one can, it is a meaningless statement. If we look at what "time" is, it is the time (for lack of a better word) between two or more events. This is how time has a begining. Science uses the Big bang as Event#1, then -10^43 seconds after that, rapid inflation = event#2 and so on, Time has started. There is nothing at all to say that time didn't exist prior to the big bang except we just don't know what, if any events happened prior to it so we use the BB as the start of time AS WE KNOW IT. Laws of physics (as we know them) begin to break down prior to -10^43 seconds after the big bang.

There is nothing to say that prior to the big bang, all matter/energy was in a different form from what we now see. It is more conceivable (IMHO)to assume that matter/energy has been here for eternity prior to the big bang, and the bang merely changed the form of this matter/energy into what we see today. So what/who started the big bang? Theist will claim god. God always fills in the gaps of knowledge for them. Example, How did life start? "Uhhh God did it". What happens after death? "Uhhh you go see god". Humans have a natural desire to have all the answers, and god is the easy answer to everything. The Christian god has always been "the god of gaps". The problem with this is that it always seems to create more questions than it answers. Ultimately it always comes down to "faith", belief in something with no logical proof or empirical evidence. Which never makes any sense to me. I'd rather continue to search for the answers rather than accept a concept that doesn't have any logical proof or empirical evidence.

 

Itsdarts

Occam thinks the mater/energy has yes, been here for infinite duration.
always has and always will.
BUT.. that the mater/ energy of our observable universe. IS but a grain of sand on the beaches of reality.

Far more logical.. It allows 'evolution' of laws within universes.
If our universe is but a small thing.. can have evolved..
If it is all.. how did its laws come to be?

Occam

 

I have no problem with this line of thought at all. I can conceive of this as being one of many universes. I'm glad to see that you've made the distinction of "Observable Universe" because at this point in time, from our persepctive, we "appear" to be in the center of it. This is misleading though because we can only see so far out (13.7 BLY) in any one direction. Its very probable that there are even more super clusters of galaxies beyond our current vision.

According the BB theory , our laws of physics break down, so I can see your point here, but -10^43 (or is it ^33?) seconds after the big bang, our laws of physics still work, so if our laws evolved, they did so rather fast and it appears there has been no evolution of them since the BB. The observable universe has evolved, but the physics haven't since the bang. They always work the same way. The only REAL evolution of physics has been in how we define them. Newtons laws of gravity work just fine on earth, but needed adjustments by Einstein to work in space.

 

in the begining was the plan and the proccess was the plan and the proccess was with the plan.

beggining?

i think if we fallow that priestly persumption,
that our god is a baby god,
who created a universe to play with because it was bored.

one could even speculate
that somewhere there is/are parrent gods with parrent universes.

other possibilities exist to a number approaching infinity.
remember; our ignorance of anything is no barrier to its existence,
only our egos, collectively and individualy, fantacize that it might be.

likewise it is they, that promt us in the tantrum of objecting to the existence
of mystery.

yes, every beggining story becomes circular at some point in that manor.
no one is so wise as to not be whistling in the dark on that one.

the advantage of science of belief
is that science is honest enough to admit
that it does not know everything

which is, of course, the first step,
to LEARNING,
ANYTHING.

=^^=
.../\...

 

God
-by, Carol Ann (Rouse) Gallegos
I am one with God
God is the energy that can not be created or destroyed.
He is the energy that was here before the big bang.
He is the energy that will be here long after your body is dust.
God is the energy that brings the atoms and molecules together to create solid matter
God is the energy that gives you life. The Holy Ghost.
You are a part of that energy. You are one with GOD.
When you work against that energy (by stealing), you’re working against your self.
All the basic Newtonian laws of physics apply to the spiritual realm
realm as well.
Think about your KARMA.
Remember that for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction.
In every tribe, in every group of people there are seers, sages, psychics, holy men who converse with god. These men read Gods pure thoughts. There are no words. God doesn’t speak any particular language. Although he can speak all languages. These Holy Men translate Gods pure thoughts into their own language and filter it through their own culture and customs and then form a religion around these thoughts. All religions are based on these same ideas. But each translation comes out just a little bit different. One religion may call it Karma while another may call it the golden rule. But originally it was the same idea or thought. Religions all were formed in order to teach men to strive to be more god like. It said that Jesus is “the way, the light.” I translate that to mean, He knows the way to enlightenment. Jesus said, “follow me and I will make your path straight” What he meant was that if you follow his example your road through life will be smother or easier. Jesus has empowered you to perform miracles. Jesus said, “these things (miracles) that I do so can you and more” Religion is not just a tool to control the masses but a way to learn to be better people, more God like.
I guess that it would help to better understand the basic Newtonian laws of physics so that you can learn how to manipulate the energy in your live to your benefit. The Newtonian laws of physics are the scientific laws of motion. For example, a body in motion will continue to be in motion unless another force acts against it. It also includes inertia and kinetic energy = potential energy.
There are rule like the 10 commandments. And we know were suposta follow these rules, because they’re the rules. Right?
But the reason to follow these rules is not just because they told me to, but because all the energy of the universe is connected. That energy is in every atom and molecule. Therefore everything is effected by the way the energy flows. That energy is effected by the basic scientific Newtonian laws of physics. Not just that “For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction” as in KARMA, but inertia for example, is like when something is going in a certain direction it will continue in that direction unless another energy acts against it. Let’s say that someone is doing pretty well in life. Every thing seems to be going in a good direction. And then, he gets in a car wreck, or gets fired from his job (another energy acting against him) changes his direction. Man has the ability to use his willpower to change his life’s direction too. He is not just at the mercy of the winds of change.

You must be careful to not hang out with the wrong friends too, or else you may get sucked in the vacuum end up going the wrong direction. You may find yourself riding along in a stolen car for example, when the car thief gets pulled over, all of you go to jail, not just the driver. Don’t condone negative behavior. Stand up for what you know is right, even when it’s not popular.
by, Carol Ann (Rouse) Gallegos


ROB BREZSNEY SACRED ADVERTISEMENT
Evil is boring. The universe is friendly. Life is on your side. Joy is your birthright. Cynicism is idiotic. Fear is a bad habit. Despair is lazy. In fact, all of creation wants you to succeed. Act as if the universe is a prodigious miracle created for your amusement and illumination. Assume that secret helpers are working behind the scenes to assist you in turning into the gorgeous masterpiece you were born to be. Retrain your senses and intellect so you’re able to perceive the fact that life always gives you exactly what you need, exactly when you need it.


“If there were no creator There would be nothing created.”

 

Maybe...

A God created evolution...cause it cant create free minds.
UH OHH

Creationists rebel and fall back to the old testament.. lobbing dud grenades
and firing blanks as they do so.




Occam

 

i would actualy aggree with most of this:

"ROB BREZSNEY SACRED ADVERTISEMENT
Evil is boring. The universe is friendly. Life is on your side. Joy is your birthright. Cynicism is idiotic. Fear is a bad habit. Despair is lazy. In fact, all of creation wants you to succeed. Act as if the universe is a prodigious miracle created for your amusement and illumination. Assume that secret helpers are working behind the scenes to assist you in turning into the gorgeous masterpiece you were born to be. Retrain your senses and intellect so you’re able to perceive the fact that life always gives you exactly what you need, exactly when you need it."

except life isn't about being a masterpiece. the kind of world we all have to live in liberates or limits the gratifications of creating and exploring.

my main caveat about that one though is that what life gives isn't exactly anything, but rather very nearly totaly random. how you deal with it further affects the probabilities. and the statistical combination of how everyone deals with it affects the probabilities even more then how we do individualy.

well "all of creation" doesn't "want" anything either. it certainly isn't out to stop you though, and we all have unexpected friends.

=^^=
.../\...

 

its not true that god created us

we create god every moment

 

dont worry be happy

Always thought it might be because it needed someone to talk to...
Lonely
Funny tho,, cant think of anyone such a being would NOT want to talk
to more than a religious person. Yes-men are assholes.

Einstein would be a chalenge..He believed in a god.
But thought religion a farce/horror
And he was one of the smartest humans who ever lived.
Just about all the smartest people who have ever lived thought religion
a con and a horror.

occam agrees with them

Occam

 

huh?