interesting E mail i recieved concerning the 2007 gathering..

Alot of people area saying that. I think in a way it couold all be a trap. That will give them the ability to put up cameras, more law enoforcers in the gathering, mabye with drug dogs... it would all be just too weird. I think Its just thier way of being able to take control of the situation... They try to control everything, wouldnt this be their way of trying to get US under control?

 

oh please god not texas. im from here and and the leo's are vicious vicious vicious. did you hear what happened to Two Gallants in Houston? Colorado was my first gathering and I absolutely loved it, and really really want to take my best friend to the 07 gathering. Unfortunately (and this is just me being selfish really), after I hitch out of Dallas on thanksgiving, I can't come back to TX for two years.

 

I know i won't go to texas. I heard about a group of family that was ran over by pick-up trucks at the last gathering there. why on earth would we hold another one there?

 

Yes someone was run over at TX'88 but it was one person and she was attempting to block the truck from driving on the beach (not saying it was right, cuz it wasn't) This time, locals in that area would actually support us; we've had folks from Zavala come by our booth in Austin & ask why don't us hippies come on back, 'the forest where y'all were is beautiful!'

Now at Arkansas '79, the local sheriff was shooting at hippies

think it over...at least TX'88 gave us a win in court

we're here regardless, but if the National/Annual is in Oklahoma or Arkansas, we'll make the drive...sure a lot closer to us than any of the last 5 Gatherings

Also, TGC in Austin will be beautiful, Austin is a very hip city, lots of veggie restaurants, lots of long hairs, dreadies and other unusual folks...hell this is a city that embraced a transvestite who wears thong underwear in public (with nothing to cover his cheeks at all!!!!)

 

i'll be makin the trip no matter where we end up

 

Yea, Austin is a hip place, and there are alot of beautiful people, Texas does have its people. But on the other hand, we have to careful, there are also alot of rednecks.

 

philly family represent!

 

I keep hearing if they sign the permit it will give them to much power. Ok that sounds bad "they get power". But what exactly are we talking about here, what new things would we start to encounter if they wanted to flex their muscle with this new power???? I hate talking broadly, what exactly could they do, what rights does signing a permit give them. Wheres the rainbow lawyers? They are the folks who I would listen to, as law is their game...

Mike...

 

ok as i see this part here i dont see how we're giving up power exactly except in the fact that a permit is being signed..wich even if its them signing it legitimizes the permit issue..but all decisions of site and everything is ours, all discussions from seed camp on will happen in open council
the issir seems to be if i'm understanding correctly there is what appears to be a offer of a much more cooperative plan.. but i think havent committed to putting it in oficial writting.. but that should be done at council instead anyway..
]i think theres just been too many years of distrust..ya know, with what happened last year..yea it was fucked up, but i felt like it would be a turning point ..and i feel like wherever we end up this year its gonna be an incredible gathering and the dynamics with fs/leo could be radicaly different
if... its a big if.. but i think the rainbow lawyers and the ppl who just know how to work with them over the years..our ambasadors if u will.. ya gotta have faith in rainbow

>
>
> Once 1 - 3 sites have been reserved, should Family
> choose to set up seed camp on any one of them, the
> USFS resource team will work with Family to define
> the operating plan; and the 2007 USFS Incident
> Commander will issue and personally sign the
> non-commercial group use permit as the "contact
> person," which will give the Permit legal effect.
>
>
>
> All further discussions with the USFS will take
> place on the Site during the Gathering in open
> council.
>
lets hope they mean it

 

[

I have bolded the parts I want to comment on.
OK, so they are asking us to scout in the Fall 2006 instead of spring 2007. They are requesting that we pick 1 to 3 of the sites that they recommend, after scouting all 6 of them this fall. Now my 1st question is when do they want us to decide? This fall I presume? If that's the case and we decide to play along, we should definitely choose 3. I wouldn't want them to know exactly where we will be that far in advance (camera's,etc). If they want us to choose 3 possibilities this fall and then decide in the spring well that's a different story. In that case, we could apparenlty change our minds late in the game and notify them of our new intended destination, say in April or May.
Secondly, they are offering to POSSIBLY select a resource or recreation
forester as Incident Commander, ONLY if we pick a spot this fall (depending one the answer to my first question).

Thirdly, the prt about all further communication will happen during opening counsel. I don't like that. Seems way too late to discuss, for the first time, anything other than the where part.
And lastly as far as us suggesting USFS staff to be part of the Incident Command Team. It's a good idea if we can give them a few names from each area, so as not to tip our hand location wise before it is necesary.
Thoughts anyone?

 

Here are some of the responses and views from this senerio
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
howdy,
* * * * I am totally with Joanne on the biggest legal problem...
that is, the Forest Service SIGNING as CONTACT PERSON...
* *this means the Forest Service is SPONSORING THE EVENT... under
the Constitution, seperation of powers.. no way the Government of any
kind can sponsor a religious, spritual event...


* * * * Joanee, karen, and i, plus sailor and thousands of others
are on the same page...


FOREST SERVICE PUT DOWN THE GUN, COUNCIL IN RESPECT, REMEMBER THE
CIRCLE, THE PEOPLE,


THE TRIBE, IS THE INVITEE AND THE SPONSOR OF THE ANNUAL GATHERING...


* * * * AND, Forest Service should contact Circle direct... as FS
very well know Rainbow Way/process is:


* * * * (a) * * Vision Circle, Annual Gathering 2006
consensus/affirmation is for Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas region.... and
the Forest Service was notified, in many ways, of the need for
RESERVATION OF NATIONAL FOREST LANDS, in this Region, *for the
Rainbow Family Tribe, and Annual Gathering Circle of Peace.
* * * * All the communications, as David reports, Forest service
been working up these Sites since August, shows us evidence that
Forest Service knows, is well aware, the ORAL APPLICATION PROCESS HAS
BEGUN.. i.e. under 36 CFR 251, any application for reservation of
national forest can be done ORALLY.. for many years this has been
standard communication - remember, west virginia report 2005 states
the Forest Service, UPON CONSENSUS OF VISION CIRCLE 2005, immediately
began shifting monies toward COLORADO...
* * * * * * * * Under 36 CFR 251 regulation, a
RESERVATION/application is made from the people, for the people, by
the people... *and for religious and/or speech events, the
Government, in all capacities, is required to be neutral.


* * * * Remember, Forest Service people are like NEIGHBORS, and can
not, while on duty, become Rainbow Family Tribe, no matter what their
personal beliefs...
* * * * Remember, Forest Service (ideally) represents the
"interests" of the rest of the people of the United States, and some
Gatherers are citizens of the United States.
* * * * Forest Service is a service, and is not a person, nor an individual.


Rainbow peoples have always worked with Resource, even under the
gun... lay down the gun... try not to force the permit... simply act
toward Annual in a normal fashion, as any other scene.


* * * * (b) * * *This Annual Gathering 2007 next step in process is
with ThanksGiving Circle.


* * * * Anyone, as an individual, who contacts with the Forest
Service and/or Mark Rey/jeffkline, and/or is contacted by same, if
that individual has respect, will bring whatever OUT INTO THE OPEN
AND TO THE CIRCLE... (which, to David's credit in this, has been done)...


* * * * (c) * * *To Scout Sites in the Fall, wonderful, been done
for years, BUT, come Spring, volunteers, Scouts -People acting upon
the Consensus of Vision Circle of Annual Gathering 2006, as is
Rainbow Way, will be out looking, seeking.


* * * * (d) * * Scout Circle, Spring Circle, then onto Site, to
fully explore, make sure it is the Site for the Home for the Rainbow
Family Tribe and guests to come and be in Peace,


* * * * (e) * * People, on Site - at Home, work out Operating Plan
with Forest Service, something done Annually, either formally (when
there is peace) or informally (when there are problems, see Annual
2006). Operating Plan deals with all the actual issues i.e.
environmental like fire, parking etc, water, public health, i.e. good
kitchens, shitters, etc.. and public safety... i.e. LEO's help with
parking, traffic flow, and respond when needed... see Annual
Gathering 2006 draft operating plan, section on LEO's...


* * * * (f) * * *IF, Forest Service would like to CERTIFY the
Annual's Operating Plan worked out between peoples on Site and Forest
Service Resource and leos re the road, etc... then on July 1st,
Forest Service, in respect, can bring the certification i.e. permit
to the Circle, present it, donate it to the Circle i.e. through Magic
Hat etc...


* * * * (g) * * Vision Circle 2007, plus cleanup and restoration,
process goes onward


* * * * this is the same plan been done, used, is for years and
years.. it works well, the problem is respect... and when Forest
service respects Rainbow Way and process, respects the Circle, works
in cooperation, stops violating our civil rights - lay down the gun,
then, there will be relative peace... I am all for it... if it is
real, actual, and legally opens the way, for the simple accommodation
of the rights of associations, assemblies like the Annual (others),
wherein there is a need for an "alternative manner" to be used in the
reservation/application process.


* * * * This is a review for many, perhaps, but this is the position
I, many others, have been working on for all these years. Respect.
* * * * thank you,
* * * * * *barry, plunker, montana rainbow family tribe
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>I think there is an important distinction to be made between the
>government's unilateral approval of a permit document and the idea
>of them assuming the role of contact as well.


>Consider the following scenario, for example:


>Suppose an assembly of citizens is planning a protest rally to be
>held in front of a government building. *The government grants a
>permit unilaterally but fails to identify citizen contacts. Then the
>government decides to change the location to a city park twelve
>blocks away. *Do the citizens have any channel to be informed of
>this, let alone object?


>It seems clear to me that the role of the government permit is to
>delimit the citizen event, but writing the citizens out of this
>completely is tantamount to writing the citizens' rights of appeal
>and fair treatment out of the process as well. *The best approach to
>resolve this that I see is to encourage a unilateral permit, but be
>clear and consistent on the idea that contact should be made through
>the regular councilling-circles process of the gathering citizens.


>Thanks for listening,
>Sue

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There are any more e-mails that have been exchanged & any that we hippiestead folks have recieved are posted on the Texas Rainbow chat group

The view here is this....if any kind of permit worked to stop the harrassment, then why do we continue to have harrassment problems?

And why would anyone want the fs to sign a permit when they have continually disrespected the views of the Family? we ask them to keep their guns out of the Church, yet they bring them anyway...we ask them not to bring vehicles into the Church, they do it anyway...we fight in court to prove that their roadblocks are illegal, yet they block the roads anyway.

The fs signing the permit means that Rainbow would be an event and as such would be subject to the same types of things that we see at music festivals; drug dogs, cameras, ect. A particular bumber sticker comes to mind here: Is Your Church ATF Approved? since JuJu saw a BATF handbook in an LEO vehicle, I can only shutter to think of what a fs signed permit could do to Gatherings as we know them....

 

a FS Task Force agent contacted me at the CO gathering . he said they want the site to be chosen sooner .


what they apparently need tho is a scenerio of less contention and the problem is all theirs . i'm pleased they have a mind to initiate a negotiation .

government at its best is simply an information agency . nobody , nobody needs a damn leader or authority by the power of the gun . yes , let them tell us of sites in the proposed region that would not be challenged . for that matter it'd be nice to know of the sites that would be .

no guns in the church .

we can negotiate for that : it can be stated in the permit .

 

what's new with this , HB ?

 

I dunno man, Ive said this once Ill say it again... it smells like fish.... I dont think we should trust them, it would open the doors for all kinds of crazy stuff... and we all know what they could be capable of.