Hello to all the forum members! my name is kim, and I am a Buddhist two years now. I have received my precepts from Zen master Nissim Amon at the Tao's center, Paros, Greece, where I still live now. in the begining I did not know what it means to be a Buddhist. I thought it might be nice to be Buddhist in a Buddhist community, thats all. later I've found out it is about ending my own suffering. but whats is my suffering? where does it come from? this I came to see as time went by. I realized that suffering comes from the mind. there is a differnce between the way my mind sees the world, and the way the world really is. my mind is angry, upset and not satisfied because of that gap so it is making me suffer. only when I saw that I am not my mind, I was able to see that this suffering is not mine. my personal journey is not over. it is still going on, day by day. and every day I keep on looking- am I suffeing? things are still not o.k: the motorbike needs to be fixed, I need to do some shopping. but every day, I am suffering less because of these things. every day, I am doing more. you are all welcome to visit Tao's center, and deepen your insights with us. today it is raining outside. thank you all for listening, yours in the Dharma, Kim, Tao's http://www.taos-greece.com
hmmm, i actually have a question about suffering. don't you need suffering? i mean, of course it hurts, but feeling is part of life. if you end suffering, you won't feel any joy either. you need both. the whole yin and yang idea. without one, you cannot have the other.
It is not the flash of the lightning that scares, it is the sound of the thunder. When the lightning cracks and the thunder bellows, when the wind howls and the shutters shutter, a warm bed and a soft pillow beckons with childhood memories. that's when I sleep the best.
dear Revolution time, thank you for taking the time to read and comment on my post. It seems suffering is our own choise. maybe you are right- without suffering there won't be joy. but how much suffering is there in our lives? and how much joy? I have found out that if I reduce my suffeing time during the day, I have more time to enjoy. my teacher says: true happiness does not taste like champagne, it tastes like water. it is clean and pure. there is not extremes in happiness, only a nice feeling. it is simply the Zen approach to happiness I am taliking about here, nothing else. I am not trying to educate or preach, only give you my point of view. may you always be happy, Kim, Tao's www.taos-greece.com
thanks kim, i know you're not trying to preach. i was just curious as to a buddhists perspective of suffering. and please don't feel i'm trying to debunk your religion in anyway. I'm just finding my own religion, and want to get as many perspectives as i can.
That's doesn't seem right, at least how I interpret it. By the same token, many people say that Buddhism is about ending desire. It is not. Magga is about ending *attachment* to desire. One can still feel sorrow, pain, and anger, but they have the mental fortitude NOT to become attached to things which cause sorrow, pain, and anger. Think of it like this. The body craves hunger. When there is no food, the instinctive mind causes one to suffer. The enlightened mind is capable of understanding that not having food isn't a reason to suffer, and is therefore free of attachment to feeling full. One can still appreciate being full or hungry, and can still choose to feel however they care to about being in either state. Similarly, you can still feel suffering, you simply have no reason to feel it anymore, because there is no longer any thing, any construct in your mind, which can compel you to suffer if you don't want to.
Yet the adept knows that it is the flash that kills, not the noise. But why fear either, when we can not stop them?
Thank you Hikaru Zero. my prespective is a little different. when I am hungry (and I don't have any food) I have two options: to groan about it, to tell everyone around me how hungry I am, to cry, to feel self-pity for not having food, and so on. the other option is simply to be hungry. everyday we face many situations in our life. the way we deal with them decides the quality of out life. if the laundry machine broke down and the whole house is filled with water we can feel angry for days: "why does this happen to me?" and fix it, or just fix it. option one i suffering life, option two is simply living them... have a great weekend, Kim
How about the brain and central nervous system? Surely a lot of suffering, and enjoyment, are due to their existence? Maybe without the brain, there would be no mind. Also -it's true that we with our minds can make things seem worse than they are - but there is actual suffering going on out there, and no matter what I do with my mind, that won't change - unless as a collective we act to change things. Just because suffering 'is not mine' doesn't make it any less real to those who suffer. Take a child starving slowly to death in Africa - not much use telling them that they're simply viewing reality in the wrong way. Not much use to me to tell me that their suffering is due to my lack of enlightenment.
No, but surely they are suffering due to past negative karma? And they created that negative karma due to "viewing reality in the wrong way" (to be it very bluntly) as you put it. But everything is interconnected right? So by doing something with 'your' mind are you not doing something for everyone else since the world is interconnected? So a change within your own mind will eventually cause changes in everything else?
yes, but I am not talking about my brain or my nervous system when I refer to suffering. I am talking about my own choice to suffer, my own choice to give in to the one that is "giving me" those suffering ideas and concepts. suffering in my own. so I can only control my own suffering, and I can eradicate only my own. I can help other people and ease their pain, but they have to choose to stop suffering. I know this sounds harsh, and I know people die in Africa because they don't have food. but what about me? I have food, and computers to use and everything else- and still that is not enough. hopefuly, I am helping people around me. hopefuly they will also see their own situation, and work to solve it. and about the people in Africa- you can do something to ease their pain. you can donate money, go volunteer, send your clothes, whatever. already you help make a better world...
But without the brain and cns would you suffer or enjoy even with your own choice? Also, are you actually choosing to suffer? If for example you cut your finger you will suffer, and you can't choose not to. Only in some respects - you can't actually control it beyond a certain point. It depends on the type of suffering involved. In some cases, we can ease a person's suffering whether they want it or not. It's up to you to solve your own problem then. But my guess is that as well as suffering you also experience enjoyment. Do you want to end that too?
Possibly they are suffering from bad karma - but I don't really think so. It is a bit of a primitive concept that some higher powwer would 'punish' people in that way. I don't actually think my thoughts have any significant impact unless they are followed by action. No doubt there is some effect due to interconectedness, but so infinitesimal as to make no practical difference given the scale of the problem.
True teaching of Buddha is that one can live free of suffering. Naturally. By maintaining openness, with clarity.
That seems very reasonable. But I'd say it's only true up to a point. For instance, I may be ok, not suffering, quite balanced and happy, even detached - yet still I might encounter some suffering in the world which caused me to react - and that reaction would then provoke some inner suffering in me perhaps, due to sympathy etc. So I think that ultimately, the truth is that to overcome suffering on the level of the individual is not wholly possible until the suffering of all is eliminated. Can one be free of suffering in an absolute way when one is living in a world where suffering takes place? To me it seems not.
The notion of karma in the buddhist interpretation doesn't have anything to do with any sort of 'higher power' or 'god' or supernatural mystical force. It's simply a law of nature, the way reality works. There's no god of karma judging actions and dishing out punishments. This is a popular misconception that is totally erroneous. Karma is simply translated as action. Cause and effect of actions. So if we use the example of the African in desperate poverty, negative actions got him there because the effect is similar to the cause. Other peoples actions (not 'his', since he lacks inherent existence) got him in that position because of the interdependent nature of reality. It has nothing to do with a god judging and dishing out 'karmic punishments'.
Substitute 'universe' for 'god' then. Either way, it isn't under our conscious control if it is an impersonal law to which we are subject. Anyway, it seems highly unlikely to me.
Suffering is both the outcome of previous negative karma or it can be perpetually created by continued ignorance or negativity in the here and now. To reduce suffering is to become free of the causes / attachments of suffering. That reduction of suffering does not prevent the experience of joy or bliss, it allows it. It is only the conditional quick fix here and there sensual pleasure that non attachment will reduce. The unconditional bliss brought about by living free of attachment does not have an opposite.
