Who is more likely to go to heaven?

To be honest, with all the trolling going on in this forum, it's pretty much not worth the effort to try to have a resonable discussion.

 

defensive much?

 

I wasn't referring to this thread when I posted. I was referring to the Christianity forum in general.

 

I come back because I yearn for a Christianity forum that isn't so filled with negativity and "Christian bashing", but this is the closest thing to it that I know of it on these forums.

Seriously though, you can't tell me that the Hitler-Fallwel post you made the other day wasn't trollish. I can't see any other use for something like that other that to intentionally be unpleasant.

 

I think this is related to the question of whether Hitler could be forgiven of all the horrible evil he committed. Could Jeffrey Dahmer and Karla Faye Tucker be forgiven? Yes.

Eating someone is far worse than stealing a pencil from a CVS and these are not equally offensive to God. The former is surely worse. I think we know that.

However, God's justice does not only arise with extreme crimes or extreme individuals. Any sin disqualifies you from Heaven and brings you under God's judgement. And we are all sinners, we all do things we should not do and fail to do things we should.

We all are going to die, one way or another. It could be at the hands of a murderer, a car crash, a heart attack, drowning, a blood clot in the leg, old age, etc... As the Bible points out, none of us are promised tomorrow. But within our lifetime we are given a chance to follow God or reject Him. The Bible says that God has put us in the time and place in which we live so that we would seek Him out and find Him, though He's not far from us. We don't, however, know how much time we have before death. God will honor a person's decision of whether they want to follow Him or whether they want to do it their own way. He gives us that choice but He also says that He is not willing that any should perish. He wants us to follow Him.

God will punish all who are guilty. He won't turn a blind eye to evil, they will get what they deserve for the crimes they have committed. Can God forgive minimal crimes but not extreme ones? How can a just God forgive any of us?

I may not be Jeffrey Dahmer but I'm no Jesus Christ either. In fact, I'm more like Dahmer than I am like Jesus, all things considered. Jesus came to take away the sins of the world, so that all who put their trust in Him can be made clean. God knows our hearts and if we truly give our lives to Him and trust in Him to save us from the evil that we have done, He will.

 

Haha, you missed on that one Fedup and don't even know it. I would hope that his parents are proud. Not that he is comparing himself to Dahmer in particular, but that he is aware that he is more like nasty people like that than he is like Jesus. The fact is that we are pretty much ALL of us more like Dahmer than we are like Jesus. We like to think that we are wonderful and that it is everybody else who sucks and needs help. I'm more like Dahmer than I am like Jesus and so are you and so is JLPMGHRS. It's not something that we like to think about ourselves, but its an important realization.

 

Thanks for replying.

Yes, per Christian belief, Jeff and Karla could be forgiven...that's the easy part, a no-brainer.

The part of the question you didn't address was: did the people that they killed who weren't "saved", who for whatever reason hadn't yet used their chance to make peace with God, end up in hell while their brutal murderers got forgiven and ended up in heaven?

 

Nope. I recongnized the attempt at sarcasm. But riddle me this. . . If someone were to say, very scarcastically, "Oh sure, and I think the sun rises in the east and sets in the west" no matter how scarcastically it was said it would fall flat, it would miss the mark for the very obvious reason that the sun actually does rise in the east and set in the west.

For similar reasons your attempt at scarasm missed the mark.

 

If you don't like christian bashing go here..

http://bibleforums.org/forum/index.php

I go there for understanding of christians philosophy and their way of looking at things. You can't do bashing there. If you seem to be there to just bash instead of learning about the bible and christians that follow it.. then you'll just be seen as a troll. So if you want some nice christian love, go there. This site allows more debate. There you'll get more one sided discussions. If people here want to discuss problems inherent in the bible, I don't see the problem. Or to show their support for it, either way this is a discussion board for people of all sorts of beliefs, not just one sided christians.. I believe. Though maybe I missed something in the rules that say "you can't post here unless you are here to praise the bible or are a christian. Any kind of questioning of the bible or posting things that may make the bible look bad is prohibited."

 

Fed up americans do the same thing, they disregard anythin having to do with faith.

have you no faith FUA?

 

lol, you got atheists then you got christians. They make absolutes on things that are not completely proven. There are probabilities on both sides. I lean more towards the evolution thing, nothing in the bible says such a thing exists. Now christians are saying god created it.. yeah god created it, and didn't bother to mention it in the bible.. he works in mysterious ways, oh yes he does. He wants to confuse the masses. God doesn't wanna be honest with us, maybe he's just one big liar.. or maybe not, that would make him a hypocrite if he did exist.

lol, just playing.. anyway. I'm agnostic.. but I side with atheists more than christians.

 

What is real. How do you define real? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain. You think that's air you're breathing now?

 

Everyone who doesnt reject the Lord Jesus Christ when they die when they see the light, goes to heaven. If you go away from the light and reject him, you will be seperated from God. That is Hell. Not fire and brimstones. Just seperation from God in "the void". Whenever you want to come to him, just pray and accept him, then you will go to heaven. Thats just my belief with the help of Near-Death Expiriences. You should look some up online and read them, there very interesting.

 

I tried to give a response to that in my third and fourth paragraph.

We all have a choice of whether we want to follow God or do things our own way. Death is guaranteed for all of us and we never know when it will come. God is trying to get a hold of us, trying to bring us to Him while we are alive but if we continually resist His mercy, that is our choice. He wants us all to come to Him and is not willing that any should perish but some people want nothing to do with Him and exercise their choice.

We can respond to the light we have been given or we can choose to stay in darkness. It's not about what people haven't heard, it's about their rejection of what God has revealed to them. Some people want to stay in rebellion against God.

None of us can claim ignorance before God. The Bible says we have evidence of God through creation and our conscience.

For the truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts.

From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.(Rom 1:19-20) NLT



Even when Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, instinctively follow what the law says, they show that in their hearts they know right from wrong.
They demonstrate that God's law is written within them, for their own consciences either accuse them or tell them they are doing what is right.

(Rom 2:14-15) NLT



As Jesus points out, we are not ignorant of God. No one has been kept in the dark about God, we are all accountable to Him. It's not that we don't have any light but that men love darkness more than light.

"There is no judgement awaiting those who trust him. But those who do not trust him have already been judged for not believing in the only Son of God. Their judgement is based on this fact: The light from Heaven came into the world, but they loved darkness more than light, for their actions were evil." (John 3:18-19) NLT


We all deserve to be sentenced to Hell. But despite our depravity, God has mercifully chosen to provide a way to save us.

 

In reading your previous reply, I sensed what you intended; in this response you should have saved yourself some keyboard time and said what you meant: the unsaved among the murderers' victims ended up going to hell, while the murderers, if sincere in their conversion, were saved.

There's no point in taking this further; I'm not a basher and have no desire to try to change anyone else's faith.

In parting...for me, seeking others' answers to questions like this helps illuminate the differences between the rational and the irrational, the orderly and the disorderly, the scripted and the truly-perceived.

I appreciate your replying.