Have you ever been raped?

Not all guys are like that. I know im not anyway.

 

Ok, iceteapriestess, I'll accept the possibility that I'm not as aware of the same scenario when it's perpetrated by men. I was only speaking from my own perspective, without of course negating the fact that men play around with women in dehumanizing ways as well. As a matter of fact, the perpetrators are also objectifying themselves unwittingly, and both men and women have responsibility in dehumanization.

NOW, the difference seems to me to be one of degrees. Men's sex appeal isn't as commodified as women's in this culture YET. The USUAL scenario is that men are handed the social responsibility for courtship and initiating, whereas women are supposed to sit passively and look pretty. In addition, she has to pretend not be interested, to protect herself from stigma.

My experience is that, in the case of flirting and dating, women have more recourse to abuse men because the direction of initiation in courtship goes from men to women. Men, then, frequently accept their role and dehumanize themselves to get sex. Then, in turn they dehumanize women once they've got what they want.

Despite the fact that men increasingly show off their bodies and make use of their sex appeal, I still see very little of women buying them drinks and other trinkets, doing special favors, hanging around with their mouths open while men strut their stuff, "chasing" and driving men around in cars, spending billions of dollars yearly on sex media, etc.

Things are changing, but unfortunately the trend continues to be objectification and dehumanization, only more equitably.

 

I've honestly never really understood the whole buying-a-drink thing. I mean, two drinks should get you a fuck? Yeah, ok. (not saying you in particular here, a generalization of bar culture here). I've had one person buy me a drink (other than at my bday) and that was a male friend who 1) I hadn't seen in a while and 2) had absolutely no interest in me (I'm female, not his type).

I guess I'm not the typical bar girl though. I go out to dance and have fun, not to find men. I usually get 95% of my drinking done ahead of time to avoid the ridiculous mark ups bars have for shots of rye. I tend to not pay much attention to guys because I'm busy dancing with my girlfriends. It'd be different if I were out there looking to hookup with someone, but I don't really trust the guys in bars. Walking STD's is sort of my assumption.

I'd prefer to look for guys somewhere where I can get a bit of a handle on them beforehand, ie dating sites. *shrugs* works for me.

 

Well, men are being used when they buy drinks, so... They want something in return. It's a mutually exploitative scenario.

Many (perhaps most) women won't give men the time of day if they don't buy something, or cater to them in same shape or form. I always tell my women friends not to accept freebies from men, whether it be a drink or anything else. It is ultimately deleterious to the status of women in society. Being sexually passive does not help either. These social norms only reinforce the notion that women are passive, self-interested, coniving but not brave, uncapable of making decisions, simultaneously manipulable and manipulating, etc.

Women are capable of taking care of themselves. And they are capable of making decisions and taking a participant interest in whatever men they fancy. It is a shame that men will place so much stigma on women who are independent and actively pursue their desires, because those women are far more fulfilling to interact with than the ones who employ some passive-agressive game to get special favors and an ego-trip.

That being said, I think your assumption that men in bars are "walking STD's" is ridiculous, misguided, and AGAIN dehumanizing. Choose whatever way you wish in order to meet men, but have a heart. Even if all of the male population in bars had STDs, which is of course nowhere near the truth, they would still be human beings worthy of respect, and not indifference.

 

But your assumptions about women in bars aren't ridiculous, misguided and dehumanizing?

While it seems okay for you to blindly paint women who go to bars as munipulative cock-teases, it isn't okay for Ihm to say that men who go to bars are walking STD's? When you say it it's the gospel truth, but when she says it its dehumanizing?

And if both members of the human race engage in the above described mating ritual, how exactly is it dehumanizing?

 

Lol, big bad wolf? Most if not all my friends are male. All of them would gladly fight for me, and i for them. I dont live in fear, the restrictions are my own doing because i do not fool myself into thinking that i can handle everything on my own. I take the same care when driving or crossing the road. I have to go into the city alone three times a week for college. I have been harrassed on the train and dealt with it. I learnt to fight from my guy friends and cousin. You make it sound like having a protective circle is a weakness. It's not, its common sense and loyalty. Like a pack. You look out for one another. I protect my boyfriend as much as he protects me. It is not a weakness. He asked me to keep him company on a night his parents where away - is that weak of him to want that extra sense of protection and security? To know that if he was attacked i would be there to help? Even gangs opperate in the same way.
You can't live in fear, yes, but you can't live like bad things will never happen to you either.

 

Rape is much more common than it should be because the crime of rape should be punished by 50 years without parole instead of like how it is in Canada where it's 6 months to 2 years on average and 1.5 years on average in the states.

 

Jesus. I'm not sure but i think here its 6 years. I'll have to look it up but still. Even if it is 6 years...you're right, thats nothing. Should be 25 - life.

 

50 to life i say
it can affect the victims entire life (doesnt have to, but often does) why shouldnt it affect the rapists entire life?

 

*sigh* did I say all the men in bars had STDs? No, I just don't trust players or people who go to bars solely to hook up with people.

And someone offering me a drink doesn't mean I'm "using" them if I accept. They -offered- it, I didn't demand it, request it or even hint at it (were such a thing to even happen)

Maybe some women don't talk to men without a drink first. But that's not all women, and that's certainly not me. You categorizing women as that is just as "ridiculous, misguided and dehumanizing" as if I were to assume that all men in the bar had STD's. I just don't trust the bar game. I wouldnt' get with a barstar female either, because, well, ick. I even like chicks, but ick, they're pretty goddamn scuzzy, just like the barstar guys/players.



Anyways, this has totally morphed away from the original topic.

No, I've never been raped. Yes, I've been abused, but at such a young age I only have the foggiest memories of it. Thankfully. And when I leave the house and I'll be out past dark, I guarantee you I have at least one blade on me. Something's better than nothing.

 

My assumptions are not about "women in bars" generally, nor is it about the entire female population. I've met many women who buck the trend, and some of you in this forum appear to do exactly that. I respect that tremedously.

I'm simply saying that cock-teasing is a widespread phenomenon, and it isn't any less abusive simply because it's done by women.

Members of the human race engage in mutually dehumanizing behavior quite frequently. As a matter of fact, that is the modus operandi of bourgeois society. People are dehumanized whenever there isn't a shared interest. You use me for this particular reason over here and ignore the rest of my personality, and I'll use you for that particular purpose over there while ignoring the rest of your humanity.

Of course, people should be free to engage in mutually dehumanizing behavior. That does not mean it isn't extremely impoverishing of human relations. I try my best to stay out of it.

 

When did I ever categorize women that way? Phew. Enough with the defensiveness and phrase-twisting already. Here's my statement and how careful I was in qualifying it:

Many (perhaps most) women won't give men the time of day if they don't buy something

I categorized your statement as ridiculous, misguided and dehumanizing. And this is what your statement was:

I don't really trust the guys in bars. Walking STD's is sort of my assumption.

I stand by my categorization of your statement. But I'm not categorizing you in such a way, and much less women in general.

I do share your aversion to "players", though. No matter what gender they are. And I'll continue to suggest, for what it's worth, that women like you who are loath of men in bars, shouldn't accept drinks from them. Take a drink from a player, and he'll think you're a part of his game.

 

Why don't we move back on topic, instead of discussing bar games of the genders? Is that ok with everyone involved?

 

Lol yea. But i think its coming to a close now anyway.

 

No, I have not, but my sister has, by her grandpa! And so has my mom, by the same person [ her dad ]. My grandpa's fucked up to do that to the women in my family, luckily I have never been raped.. and to those who have been raped, bless you and I pray you are treated with more respect in the future!

 

thats all too common of a story..in fact the majorityof rapes are simular tothis,
may iask.. was it one time only? or nearly constant over mantyy years

you dont want toknow how many times i've heard about dads, unckles, brothers, granddads, uname it.. raping young girls.. as young as 3.. for years & years & years
every rape is disgusting.. but that by far is the worse..its 1 thing when its someone u know u shouldnt have trusted..but when its someone u should be able to trust withyour life..it really screws with your ability to ever trust again
hugs to your sis & mom

 

Well, my sis was pretty young when he started doing it. My dad was away and my mom and her dad were with me and my siblings, and my gramps got a hold of her and molested and raped her. He's been a child molestor most of his life so I'm guessing it would be constantly over many years...I'm guessing this is why my mom was just a little messed up on some of her views, because she was molested when she was younger. My sister is not affected though, she is a normal teenager with great friends. but he's in jail now or something and the gramps and us are seperated for good, so I'm hoping he doesn't get a hold of any of us in the future.

I have heard about it too, many times. Of little girls being taken away by a parent or uncle or grand pa and being raped by them. It happens to boys too but with girls I imagine it is more common...And I agree completely with you, raping is degrading, disgusting, wrong, and sickening to me, and being blood with the person raping you is WAY more disgusting. Thankfully the elders and males of my family are not like that.

 

But isnt there a DNA thing where if someone got pregnant that way it could cause serious problems?

 

i got raped when i was 2-4, i was so young i cant remember. all i remember was my mom and me went over to a family friends house and their kid forced me to go down by knife point, i eventually got away and crawled up the basement stairs, and started to yell for help, his dad came over and just yelled at me to get my ass back down there. thats pretty much all i remember.

 

yes there is.. but the problems arent always severe
there is a definate higher risk of birth deffects or other genetic problems

but whats the point of your post?
you thinkthe rapist ever thinks oh what if i get a 3 year old pregnant?