Gays in the military MERGED

i was listening to a replay of the howard stern show, and they had g. gordon liddy on. around the end of the interview, they asked him his view on gays in the military. he is against it because he feels that homosexual men will have feelings for the men that shower with them everyday. if g. gordon liddy said it, then it must be true. right?


but really, i was wondering about some reasons that contradict this view. i probably already know them, but i'm bored, and i haven't started a new thread in a while.

 

i have no problem with straight guys that want to shower with straight guys. i don't blame them..

i know that i would look...

 

so you don't believe that openly gay men should be in the military? or is it the other way?

 

I just don't really see how it could work.

It could prove to be very awkward in a lot of circumstances. Trust me, I'm all about equality, but in combat the last thing you want someone to be thinking is "is he checking me out..?".

I don't really have an answer. There are so many aspects of the military that involve very close interactions between men that could cause unpleseant situations if a homosexual was involved.

I know it has been done and still goes on and results with no problems, but there could be awful repercussions for a gay man in the military.

 

I agree with you mushie. You pretty much covered it.

 

How about this solution: Rules are set up regarding what is apropriate and inapropriate conduct, and those who do not follow the rules are reprimanded and or discharged. That's called disipline, it is supposed to be what the military is known for. Oh, and I think if you're woried about who is checking you out in combat you probably deserve an injury, that's called natural selection.

 

Yeah you are right panzer...and why should anyone give a fuck if their being checked out? So what...it does not harm...i dont care if girls check me out in fact I enjoy it because its a compliment it means im good looking I dont see how it shouldnt be any different with straight guys.

as long as there is no sexual misconduct anyone should be able to fight for their country

 

gays and their self righteousness...

yeah you're right, people should be able to accept a compliment. but many people aren't comfortable with homosexuality. that is their right as a human being, just as it is my right to be gay.

a straight man showering, bunking, laying, keeping warm, etc. with a gay man can prove to be an awkward situation. why create unneeded tension? I'm not saying it's right, but if a guy is willing to put his life on the line, gay or straight, i think he should feel comfortable with his platoon.

 

hey mushie.

Well I agree with you about the other stuff, but it's funny that you're saying it like it. You could say the exact same thing in the defense, because straight men should be comfortable and trusting enough in battle (with their lives on the line) with anybody who is trained to handle the situation. They should be able to look beyond sexuality in that aspect of it. It's just survival instincts at that point...

But yeah, on the other points I definately agree it could become very awkward.

 

I think it would have been better if he said, that sex shouldnt interfere in army/military affairs hehe

 

well, Mushie, just because you cant help but check any naked guy out and contain yourself, doesnt mean that millions of other gay men cant. Sexuality has NO thing to do with combat, what the hell kind of point are you trying to make? If people in hte military aren't comfortable enough with their own sexuality, then that's THEIR problem.

Do you think we should also ban gays from normal schools, and create special schools for them so that straight guys aren't distracted in the classroom, worrying if the gay guy across the room has checked him out? Come on man.

Yes, people have the right to be against homosexuality, but what they dont have the right to do is discriminate someone else because of it.

"a straight man showering, bunking, laying, keeping warm, etc. with a gay man can prove to be an awkward situation. why create unneeded tension?"

^what? yeah, like I siad, that's THEIR problem, if they can't be comfortbale being around another gay guy. Like I said before, should we then separate gays from straights in the rest of the world? What the hell is so special about the military that you feel "segregation" is necessary?

Sexual misconduct is one thing, but just because someone is gay doenst mean that they are going to do taht to a straight guy. But I guess by the sounds of it, Mushie would.

 

ha, i was waiting for it.

yes, i'm aware it's their problem, nor do i agree with their opinion. but they're entitled to it.

It essentially already is segregation in the military "don't ask, don't tell".

You are asking me ridiculous questions.. A school is completley different than the military. For example, in basic training two males, may have to strip down and hold each other close to keep warm. This type of situation doesn't happen in schools.

I don't find it to be discrimination for a straight guy to be uncomfortable nude around a gay guy. Maybe your views on discrimination are a little more rigid.

I'm fine with the current way the military runs, don't ask, don't tell.

My point is, i find a gay guy rooming, showering, bunking, etc, no different than if it was a straight guy, and straight woman. It just doesn't work in my opinion. And i'm not saying that a gay guy can't live with a straight guy outside of the military, but in the military the men get very close.

i'm not a pervert, as much as you may like to make me look as one. I just think if i was in the military, i could get aroused in certain circumstances. It's not it's something I or many others have control over.. If I were become aroused I would be aware that it is inappropriate.

 

Mushie, what it seems to come down to is that you don't think you can handle it, so you are generalising and assuming that all other gay men couldn't. But, the thing is, other people are different than you and should be given the chance to prove that they can serve compitently without getting aroused at inapropriate times. Like I said, if someone breaks the rules they should be reprimanded and or discharged. But they shaould have the right to try. Also, alot of what you say are arguments against letting any minority into the military. I bet there were alot of white guys that said they should not have to touch black guys when the military first became racialy integrated.

 

exactly, Panzer^

 

i guess you're right.. i wouldn't be able to handle living with another man, showering, etc.

think of the situation like this, instead of a gay man, it's a straight woman doing all of the shit that the platoon does. to me, it's the exact same. i find it inappropriate.

my argument isn't about other minorities. if you cannot understand my view, then that's fine. you're not going to convince me, nor am i going to convince you.

 

but men are built differently.

and it's not like homosexuality is a gender identity thing.

plus it's not like men think with their penis. everything doesn't have to be equated to sex.

 

Is it an obligation to join the army in your country?For example in Turkey every guy has to join army to defend his country and we soldiers don't get money for this!

 

I think they give a release if you are gay. But I think you didnt want to lose the opportunity of staying with all these men watching their naked butts

 

personnally I think its a pretty good idea for getting out of it, I would hate to join the army, and asking about communal showers in the initial interview might just do the trick to get me out the door!
S

 

Think about it. If there is nothing unconstitutional about homosexuality, why then should gay people be banned from any government sector? Felons can't join the military, because they broke laws of the state. Homosexuality is not illeagal, thus why should they be banned from military service. The military should just regulate and prosecute what is unconstitutional. They should have a rule banning deviant sex on post if that is neccesary for the smooth opporation of the "business", war; and if anyone feels threatened by a gay soldier, they should be encouraged to report it to superiors. The military as an employer has rights to determine what is acceptable behavior from their soldiers; just like Mc Donald's or the New York Stock Exchange have over the people who work there. Wash your hands every time you leave the grill area or you are fired. I think the military should not be outside the law of the country, and definately not be a law unto themselves. That would be martial law. I do believe it is against the law in this country to have anal sex, nomatter what sex you are. I don't think it is a felony though, and should not be a factor in being discharged from military service. The USA has to once and for all decide on it's constitutional view on homosexuality, and military power limits. We have to decide if homosexuality is a threat to our soverenty, and if it will weaken the nation. We need clearly defined enemies.