For or against PETA?

It's no secret on these forums that I am an outspoken opponant of PeTA. The only things I do like about them is their exposure of the fur industry...that's it.

They are nutball, egotists that live in an unbelievably, close-minded bubble. Most of their active employees and members are middle-upper class, white, high school and college students who have never experienced poverty or hunger and the only impact they have felt from a bad economy is not being able to afford $400 vegan Manolo Blahniks. Their parents or incomes have always allowed for a vegan diet(which is actually more exoensive then an omnivore diet) and they are at that age where everyone else is "wrong".

My main reason for hating PeTA is that they recieve $20 million a year in donations. What is it spent on? Paying celebrities to pose nude or do voice-overs for PeTA DVDs. They spend it on outlandish campaigns that only earn more scorn then positive attention.

Meanwhile, SPCAs, shelters, and sanctuaries are struggling with paltry donations. They are the ones who actually RESCUE, PROVIDE VET CARE, AND FIND HOMES for animals that were being neglected, abused, or abandoned.

My local SPCA was excited because they recieved their highest yearly donation quota ever. $800,000. That doesn't even begin to cover the expenses they aquire over the year to pay officers, vets, shelter employees, lawyers and foster families. Then add on all the food, building maintainance, utilities, medicine, leashed, cages, medical equipment, cars and trucks for animal transport..ect.

Yet PeTA with all their shananigans gets all the donations. Pfft. Fuck PeTA.

 

LOL the "slut" was a direct quote from Ingrid saying that "peta is a media slut". I will never understand how people can support a group with such a wacko president (not to mention extremist ideas).

I show and breed dogs. I train my dogs and compete with them in different venues. I teach group, private and 4H dog training classes. Being a 4H advisor is something I am very involved in and I find 4H is wonderful for children. I like purebred dogs and I don't want the government to tell me what breed I can or can not own. I want to have Belgian Sheepdogs in my life when I'm old. As for meat while if I wanted to I could be a vegetarian, my dogs need meat to survive.

Peta wishes to see an end to the training and showing of animals - after all it "exploits" them. Peta wants to see an end to companion animals and wants ALL dogs spayed and neutered. They support and push laws in some cities for mandatory spaying and neutering. They are opposed to 4H in general. They are opposed to purebred dogs and the dog fancy (that's what we dog show people are called). They are opposed to meat animals under all situations. In fact if they could they would make it illegal to raise animals for meat. It seems to me what Peta is more so than pro-animal rights is they are anti- our constitutional rights. Even if they never accomplish what they wish to in these areas how can I be OK with that attitude?

Don't you find it interesting that the vice president of Peta - a group totally opposed to medical research uses insulin? I do for sure since they are so outspoken about such things. I wear leather but love animals.

Do you agree that in the future breeding of pet animals should totally stop? The AR movement calls for animal liberation. It's not "some people" it's part of what makes up the AR movement. If animals are given rights we sure can't own them.

I found the video entertaining and right on. Than again I am not a Peta supporter - I can see how it would make Peta supports mad. I mean if you want to believe Peta is good it's hard to with so many facts proving they aren't how they present themselves.

Cynical Otter great post! Another problem shelters face is that certain big name shelters get donations from all over the country. People who want to help animals are best to donate locally to a shelter or rescue rather than sending money to Peta or some big name shelter across the country.

Also agree about the children thing totally who ever posted that. I really have no tolerance for that sort of thing...

 

For or against peta?

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against.

 

I do think their heart is in the right place... but as for their brain, I am not sure they have one.

 

Just a question...but do you attend church?

Would you like a cookie? Who cares? LOL

Why do you like purebred dogs? Are you an elitist? Would you ever own a mutt or is that just unheard of to you? Purebred dogs are actually more unhealthy and apt to have puppies that are mutated or disfigured in some way because of the similar genetic makeup of the breeding animals.

You have every right to feel the way you do. But, in all organizations that you might be involved in, do you believe in EVERYTHING they stand for? And as far as spaying and neutering...there is a reason for that. There are an obscene amount of animals out there that don't have homes because they are feral and breed like rabbits when they are not under control. These animals are left to die, or to spend their lives in the humane societies...only to be euthenized when they haven't been adopted out because people like yourself feel that the only dogs worth having are purebred ones. I'd love to make it illegal to raise animals for meat. Where can I vote for that bill?

You must just not like cows : -/

 

For the record I am pro-animal rights (well depending on your personal definition thereof). However PETA has become amongst the most frequent target of my impotent rage. Never thought I'd see the day; but that's what you get for being older, wiser ... and engaging your freshly honed critical thinking skills.

So yes I do completely agree with Otter; a glorious eloquent rage. In addition, I think this quote from Gary Francione covers a fair few other grievances of mine;

http://www.theanimalspirit.com/garyfrancione.html

PETA is there are NOT an animal rights group at all. Sure they might claim to be, and people make that assumption; but if you actually research the animal rights movement/philosophy in detail (ie read the work of those writers I've mentioned, and others) you'll soon realise PETA are at best hardline welfarist. My objection is not to animal welfare per se, but the misleading and inconsistency which inevitably comes from PETA's representation.
Oh and I do not see them as extremists in any respect but their obnoxious attention whoring absurdity.

Probably much the same reason it took the allied liberation of concentration camps for people to truly know what the Nazis were doing to the Jews. Diffrent goals of course, but similar methods of execution [pun probably not intended]; sophisticated manipulative tactics and not being stupid enough to incriminate themselves by telling 'the truth whole truth and nothing but the truth'. Of course they're going to tell you it's all a force of sweetness and light; even when they openly admit to condoning violence to achieve their aims in the same breath.
'Holocaust on a plate' done in a way that'd do Gobbels proud; oh the bittersweet irony. Then just in case there were enough paralells PETA decided to be pro gas chambers...

[Joan Dunayer]
http://www.satyamag.com/mar05/dunayer.html

My grandparents are their comrades in arms risked everything to fight the Nazi regime; for, amongst other things, freedom of expression. Least I can do is find my own principles and stand by them.

 

"I'd love to make it illegal to raise animals for meat. Where can I vote for that bill?"




if this were an international law i would hope tribal people in remote and barren places like the gobi desert or the himalayas understand, since the majority of their diet consists of meat cheese and milk. they depend on their livestock to eat plants that humans cannot such as sparse grasses to convert that into consumable food energy.

or would these laws only apply to affluent americans?

what about my six nation friends? they use animals as a way to keep a connection with their past. a couple of my good friends make traditional buck skin clothing and bags to supplement their meagar income. the buck skin comes from farmed venison.

do you know how expensive groceries are in the artic the innuit in alaska, yukon, northwest territories and nunavet depend on hunting AND farmed meat to both keep connection with their past and supplement the exorbate prices of imported foods. even phyisically they have adapted to consume a highly meat (and raw in many cases) based diet.

it's very easy for us living comfortably with cheap vegetarian foods available (especially if you like to cook from scratch, then a veggy diet can be pretty affordable) but you have to think of others who just don't have that option.

and if it's cruel for one population but not in another, how do you define who it is acceptable for and for whom it is unacceptable? who makes these decisions? if it is unnaceptable for anyone to farm meat animals how do we feed the millions who live in already destitude countries who depend on their livestock to feed their families? There are already millions starving to death right this minute. what right do we have to tell them they should die so that thier camels and sheep and goats and chickensand deer and seal, etc., can live?

food is survival. many of us live such priveledged lives, it's so easy to sit back and condemn others. but for the majority of the world, and i mean billions of people life is a struggle of survival. it's not always pretty, though i think there is still beauty in it. (watch the tale of the weeping camel to see some beautiful people wh live to survive, they love their animals, but their survival is very dependent on them too)

think about it.

kathy

 

That's strange that you would pick that one little thing to quote about when we aren't even in the vegetarian forum...

Honestly, I don't live a priveleged life. It's actually cheaper FOR ME and most Americans to eat a vegetarian diet. Now, that means you don't have to go out and get Boca or MorningStar burgers, but instead eat vegetables and fruits and legumes. It's not necessary to splurge on that sort of thing.

And yeah, I'd vote for a bill to outlaw factory farming...because that's what ISN'T necessary to eat meat. Those that go out and hunt to SURVIVE...I can understand...most people in the US (not including indigenous people, who are almost always exempt from these kinds of laws, anyway) do NOT have to do that.

Anyway, back on topic... PETA...so sue me, I support a lot of what they do...Everything? No...MOST? yes.

 

PETA ROCKS!!! LONG LIVE ALF!!! Penn & Teller are full of SHIT. How can they say their all for treating animals humanely while wearing fucking leather. What a joke! Those guys are a coupla ninny jackass' dressed up like complete idiots. It's easy to target PETA.. they have an effect, a huge one. Maybe the reason Peta allegedly euthanised so many animals is because of all the fucked up humans out there abusing them beyond hope. As for the holocaust comparison, well, a picture's worth a thousand words, right? Strange how identical the holocaust images and the factory farm images are. As humans we think we are the chosen ones to use this planet and it's inhabitants as we see fit. THAT'S freakin' elitist if anything is. Aaahh... speciesism. Fuck it! I'm not buying it.

 

^ very good points Kraftykathy...and I'll add

PETA does come down hard on the beef producers with a lot of lies and omissions of truth.

What about the Native Americans that depend on their own cattle ranching now that the white people killed all their buffalo and put them on poor quality land? Most of the Native Americans on the Rez out in Montana, they ranch cattle.

I live in rural Montana where all we grow is beef, bread and beer, that's the diet of the area because it's economically depressed and extremely remote, we have to eat what we can afford and what's for sale at the store. Is anyone surprised that it's hard to find organic tofu in Fairview, Montana - population 500? It's 250 miles to the nearest urban area, urban I mean 90,000ish population areas.

We're so remote shipping cost for all those hoity-toitish products isn't feasible for our area. Montana has the 3rd healthiest people when compared to the other states U.S. so said the last report. Beef grown on the range is good to support.

 

Hoity toity?

Who says vegetarianism requires you to eat hoity toity foods? Do you have any idea about vegetarianism?

LOL Too bad this isn't even the topic of this thread LOL

Oh and you don't have to go to a 90,000 person city to buy vegetables, fruits and beans.

 

You're right and I do purchase vegetables, fruits and beans in Fairview - I did however live with an urban vegetarian. I have nothing against any people who chose that lifestyle, however they don't sale the same vegetarian products that are sold in urban areas in rural economically depressed areas, and the vegetable and fruit selections are hit and miss at best. Do you know anything about rural remote living?

This is the topic of the thread, PETA - I don't like what the lies they spread about the cattle industry, how's that off topic?

 

Well, hey, I think you make a lot of great points. I have not seen any clear reason to be completely against PETA but I have seen some implied reasons which make me hesitant to be completely for them. There's no denying the difference they make and I will continue to use their pamphlets to summarize the cruelty out there. And, of course, if people must kill animals for food, I would rather they change their methods to a quick and painless death.

 

Kathy, I agree with Annie on this one. There is nothing similar about the way the Western world attains it's meat products and the way tribal people used to (and some still do). They are compassionate out there and do what they have to, having no access to the kind of food we do.

 

I can understand your predicament. I've always lived in the city and vegetarian food is very much in stock and in style, everything you could wish for. I just hope that as the world becomes more open-minded and healthy, vegetarian food will expand to parts like yours. However, as you proved with your example, it is something you can make work if you want to.
About those lies... Video footage can't lie, can it? What makes you think all meat processors are kind people who only want to feed the public?

 

Yeah I do have an idea about rural living. I live in a farming town myself...actually, it's a village because it's not even big enough to be a town...

I don't eat a lot of the "hoity toity" foods because I don't have that kind of money...not to mention the fact that the one grocery store in the town is extremely overpriced on everything. But sometimes, you have to spend a little money in order to be a moral and ethical consumer.

 

While I agree with PETA's stance on factory farming and humane treatment of animals, they basically say that my organic, subsistance, backwoods life is evil and I should quit living like I do because animals, both working and food, are an integral part of it. So no I do not support PETA.

 

yeah, i only really addressed the meat farming thing because it felt most relevant to me (i'm a farmer) and i'm horrible at breaking down entire posts and addressing each point - takes me forever to post the little that i do, lol!

true enough that this is a pet issue. but the question was how do i feel about peta and my issues are with farming as it personally effects me.

quickly, these are my views on pets - i do agree that there are a lot of irresponsible pet owners and more spaying and neutering should definately be happening. being on a farm we get all the poor cats that city people like to "set free" we have an out of control cat population here! none of them are ours. i get really angry at that. sheesh at least own up to the responsibility and go to the spca instead of making someone else do it!

i do like mutts, but i wouldn't ban dog breeding, it's fine if you can afford it. i have a mixed breed dog myself. (there are a few breeds i admire - border collies, great pyrenees, mareemas, all the sheep work dogs)

i don't think dog shows exploit dogs. those kind of owners seem to live for their dogs and they get wonderfully spoiled. i'm sure not all dog breeders and show people are that nice but the ones i know live for their dogs.


there are many tribal people in the western world, so it should be an issue . if you told them they have to give up meat tomorrow their anger would be unimaginable! north american aboriginals DO farm meat. i can drive over to my neighboring six nations reserve and buy farmed venison and bison from a number of people. they process it at a slaughterhouse. they farm it to sell it to off reservation people because they need the income. they absolutely depend on it as they live in poverty despite the fact that they have access to grocery stores. my point is, how can you have one set of rules for one type of people another set of rules for another? particularly two groups in the same coutry. do you see how hard that would be and how many people might perceive that as discrimination?

i can't imagine how one method of killing could be superior to another!?

i just don't think you can have 2 sets of rules on this issue.

BUT, i do think that the most proactive thing you can do is to set an example so that if you are vegetarian, against ownership of pets, etc, and you personally live up to it you are doing so much more than condemning others for what they do.

peta gets my hackles up because no one likes being told they are the bad guy. i know that for some people it actually makes them resist and pull the opposite direction! besides there is no bad guy ( the older i get, the more i believe that) most people don't think they are doing wrong and accusing them makes them feel that they have to justify what they are doing.

being true to yourself is something i can respect!

kathy

 

I always found it hilarious that Anti-PeTA people use simple logic, facts, and reality to back up their argument whilst most supporters often rely on an emotional argument.

99% of the time, a debate with a Petard ends with them saying.."U suck! PETA ROCKZ!"

Want some emotional argument against PeTA? ANIMALS DIE EVERYTIME ONE OF YOU PETA-SUPPORTERS DONATES MONEY TO PETA. They die! Every cent that goes to PeTA and into Pam Anderson's bank account is one cent that won't go to the SPCA and they won't be able to afford a new trailer to transport starving horses that they seize from abusive owners. Every cent donated to PeTA and put into Joaquin Phoenix's bank account is one cent that wont go towards life-saving medicine or equipment at SPCA animal hospital.

You sentence an animal to death everytime you give money to PeTA. How does that feel? You kill animals just like the evol meateaters you hate so much. You kill animals because you think it's cool to hear to some lamo celebrity yak about chickens.

Soak in that for a while, hypocrites.

 

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