So confused...

I have a bit (or a lot) of a problem going on right now, I would appreciate all advice. I'm really upset and confused about what to do.

Yesterday I adopted a dog from the animal shelter named Thumper. Thumper is a young (neutered male) pit bull who is very sweet, but very active.

We have a dog named Missoula who is a middle aged Chow-Chow with a thyroid problem which has made her hair problematic at times and has been prescribed prednisone repeatedly (I switched vets because I no longer felt it was good to give her it so much). I really honestly believe it has changed her personality, maybe permanately. She is not at all aggresive to people, or to our cats, but has never been especially social to dogs although definately not aggresive either.

Anyways, at the SPCA we had to introduce Missoula to Thumper before Thumper came home and they felt Missoula would put Thumper "in his place" and then they'd get along fine. I guess they meant establish pack order and such.

Well it's not working out great. Missoula does not like Thumper at ALL. She charges him if he's having fun, and the only contact they have had has been fighting (it looks like Thumper is playing since his tail is wagging and he never tries to hurt her, Missoula is bared teeth and snarling... I think she means business). I don't know what to do, do I let them do this and hope they work out their issues? I know if Thumper wanted to he could hurt Missoula, but he hasn't seemed to be serious about it at all....

He also chases our cat a bit and seems to want to rough house with the cat, which obviously is not a great idea.

I really like Thumper a lot. I feel horrible though because I am afraid I may have to take him back to the SPCA (it's required I return him there rather than give him to someone else, and since he's a Pit Bull, I feel that would be best for his own safety apart from a Pit Rescue)... but he's been at the SPCA since November. They said they would not have kept him so long if he was nnot a special dog, and I really do think he's special, but for the right people. I'm not sure this home is where he's meant to be... but if I return him he may die......

So confused

Do I just try it out? Do dogs have a tendency to fight at the beginning? Missoula has always been food agressive but never dog aggresive. The SPCA said he'd do best with a female dog because he doesn't get along with male dogs well, does the fact she's spayed make a difference? And does the effects of prednisone EVER fucking go away?

 

Well dogs always fight at the begging or any animals for that matter. I remeber when I brought my cat home Hope Jinx the other cat didn;t respond to weel to that he wouldn;t come near me he would try to hurt hope. What I did with them is I got them together in a room and watched them together we did it slowly. The first time they met he hated me and her. Then I had them in the room for 10 mins the 15 mins then 20 mins. Eventually they got used to each other and became the best of friends.

I had sarah first and then I got Alexis. Sarah wasnlt to found of Alexis when we brought her home he wouldn't sit with us and she would chase Alexis around the hosue and bug her. their used to each other now though. What we did with them is we had sarah in the cage for a bit then we brought her back up you know to let her cool off, and her and alexis smelt each other while someone was holding their coloars. They still fight now don;t get me wrong but its just lay fighting.

Animals are like human children in that aspect when your an only chilod and mom brings home the new baby your jelouse of it and probley slap it in the head (when your little) Eventually you get used to it cause this is the way its gunna be.

But I think things will get better just give it time. But don;t forget to give attention to Missoula as well it will make her feel better.

Good luck and feel better

 

A Chow and a Pit is generally a bad combo...both breeds have agressive tendancies and dispositions. Most breeders and trainers of both breeds don't advocate having multiples of each breed or mixed pairs of breeds like those two. The same rule is usually applied to Cocker Spaniels as well since they are the number one biters and are very food aggressive.

I'm amazed that the shelter allowed you to adopt him with a Chow at home. Pits are very hard to place and people are usually put through extensive background checks to ensure that Pits are being placed in the correct home situations.

I hope you find a solution but perhaps keeping them separated until they atleast get used to the scent of each other.

 

Adva, throw out peace and contentment vibes to your dog.......here is a little story that just happened to me........
12:33 AM 8/4/06 - I had the distinct vision waking up that little dog thundur in the bedroom is there to help me and a few other entities that I glimpsed when awakening including princess who was sleeping on the bed. That was inspiring to realize such a sick little dog was throwing out healing vibes aound him. Since he can do this I know the healing vibes I am throwing out are there to him are helping. Then there was a face through the dreamcatcher (hangin in front of the painting)that was part of my castle and dragon painting which watched over me but it is not painted on the canvas yet. A kindly ole indian like face appeared thru the web of the dreamcatcher. Thundur who can only barely sit up is an inspiration of healing hope early this Friday morning. Who is that other person hovering over my bed that thundur is helping to heal?

 

Do give it some time before you take him back. I agree with the previous poster about keeping the energy calm and positive. If you are nervous or upset your dogs will pick up on that and act out accordingly. When I brought home my latest rescue dog Oscar I was considering brining him back for the first few weeks due to fear for his safety. My little dog (also a shelter rescue) Lily HATED him and would seriously attack him at any given chance. If he touched a toy or sat on my lap she would attack him. What I did was keep them serparated while I was not home by putting Oscar in the bedroom with all of his food, toys, etc. While home I would keep a very close eye on them and try to keep the peace as much as possible. After a few weeks things started to calm down and they actually played with each other for the first time. That led to more playing and then more and before I knew it they had become best friends playing together all the time. No attacks since on Lily's part. Things will not always be perfect sometimes. But they can get much better. Sometimes things do not work out but before you make that call just give it a little more time.....it's still very soon. I wish you the best

 

oh also there is a lovely website called Dogster (kinda like myspace for dogs....you can make your dog a free webpage). Its actually one of my favorite sites. Anyway, they have forums there which I have gone into a few times with questions about stuff like this and have gotten great advice. The people there are all dog lovers and some are trainers....many involved with rescue.

 

dogs are pack animals & you have to earn your place in the pack. you have brought this pitt home & is in the chows case invading her pack. whe she realises that he is of no threat she will calm down. my mums dog snalls at other dogs that come in to the house. she was abandand when she was 6 months old, she was left on the industrial estate where my dad worked at the time so we all went up in the car. when we got up there & opened the car door she must have thought we were her original owners because she jumped straight on my mums knee. she must have then realised that we werent her original owners & she started growling & snapping at us. because my mum was the first person she saw she is very protective of my mum & she gets scared that she is going to be left again.

my sisters & cousin have dogs & they bring them up all the time, the first few times she snalled & groweled at them all the time, they never fought & she eventually got used to them & now she is fine. give it a bit of time with your dogs but while ever the chow is still a little uneasy with the pitt just keep a close eye on them both. as for the cats, i wouldnt worry about them, cats soon show dogs whos boss, once the dog has a go & corners the cat & the cat gets its claws out the dog will start to respect the cat.

hope everything turns out ok for you & your pets.

 

I agree with the previous poster that animals together at the same home have to learn to respect each other. With 9 aussie mixes there have been some free for alls and I have only me to pick 2 dogs up by the scruff of the neck, they still try to get at each other. I think it is better for the dog to have a few fights at home rather than go to an animal shelter. My opinion of animal shelters is it is like jail and older dogs that come out of that nightmare have to get adjusted, takes a while. I'm not positive but I think dogs and cats fight a little when I come around cuz of jealousy.......but it may not be.....it may be a survival instinct thing related to getting food........I pull out a snack and it is like they all know about it telepathically sometimes.
Anyways, if you took your child to an orphanage cuz he beat up his brother, there would be so many people in orphanages.........geesh. lol

joy and thrills
Honor

 

Why the Hell Would you Want a Pit Bull?

Most Vicious Dogs I've Come Across...

 

Well, I have pit bull experience, and I have to say they're the sweetest dogs I've come across.

A dog is what you make it, ultimately. I don't want to fight my dogs, I'm not trying to get a gangsta status.

My first pit bull was deaf and she was AWESOME.

I don't want this turning into a "pit bulls eat people's face and kill small children"... because so do poodles.

 

How can you say something so ignorant?! I've been attacked by 2 German Shephards in my life, but do I think all G.S. are vicious? No... that would be stupid of me to lump them all together into one evil category. Pitbulls are some of the most AFFECTIONATE, LOVING, AWESOME dogs I'VE ever come across. If you encountered mean pits blame the stupid evil human for making them that way, not the dog. Pitbulls by nature are very loving, caring, playful dogs and that is a fact. Every Pit I've ever known, and I've known many, have been the coolest, most awesome dogs ever. As a matter of fact they used to be considered the best family dog to have until people started abusing them and fighting them. So before you go off and slander the name of a great dog you clearly know nothing about, consider the fact that people are the reason for your fears, not the dog. I'm so sick of all the pit-haters out there hating on them for ignorant reasons. It's not the Pitty that's vicious... it's the VICIOUS MEAN PEOPLE raising them that are. And that goes for all those awesome dogs out there that have bad reps because of stupid, evil, mean, abusive humans.

 

Advaya... thank you for that. You hit the nail on the head...

 

As far as adopting Thumper to me when I had a chow, I was very upfront about Missoula and her breed. They made me bring her to meet Thumper there, and they felt it was alright. There had been many people interested in Thumper, but they had not been approved... they do have extensive background checking and requirements. I am required to put up a fence to contain thumper... which is a requirement they have only for pit bulls, other dogs keeping them on a leash when outside is sufficient. Everyone else has been denied, so I must be doing something right.

I called the SPCA today and I am going to be bringing both of them to Obediance training at the end of this month. I feel that will help tremendously. Also I must never let them fight but say "enough" or no and mean it, also I must punish them when necessary by isolating the dog (obviously I would never ever hit my dog or anything crazy like that) and rewarding him when he does good. I also can not let him alone with the cat or even off leash when the cat is around. That will pose a problem when he is outside in his run however, as we have a free roaming cat... we can keep thumper from the cat, but we can't keep the cat from Thumper, hopefully we can find a solution to that.

I am still hurt over the pit's are so vicious comment.. I wonder if she's even met a pit who wasn't a status symbol for some poor idiot.

Thanks for all the help and encouragement. Taking Thumper back is not what I want, I would much rather find other solutions to this such as training, but if it's not meant to be then it's not meant to be and I tried my best. I would pay to keep thumper at the shelter if I had to, I have two weeks to take him back and get my money back, but I wouldn't ask for it. I wish I could suggest a pit bull rescue if it didn't work out who could foster him from the shelter.... I guess there are other options than it not working and he being euthanized, although even that is less painful than me giving him away to some person who I do not have the resources to clearly check and they fight or abuse him.

 

Actually, pitbulls do have a natural instinct to bite. They were created and bred to be boar/pig killing dogs. They were used by hunters to chase down and strangle wild pigs. They were bred to kill huge animals. A pitbull can take down a cow or horse. Their bite isn't like that any other dog breed. They don't just bite, they lock on and shake with all of their body weight. They can break through the femur of an adult human male. They can crush skulls. This is not something to be taken lightly.

All dogs can be loving, great, pets but some breeds are simply more aggressive and dangerous then others. It's not the dog's fault by any means. It IS the people's fault. However, degrees of caution do need to used when dealing with pits.

Other surprisingly mean dogs are poodles, cocker spaniels, vizslas, chows, pekinese, pomeranians, and rat terriers. Why? because of all them were created to be aggressive little buggers.

The breeds with the most bad reps like Dobies and Rotties are actually very gentle even when provoked. They were bred to be ladies' companion dogs. They may look fearsome but most are silly and shy. They have to be specially trained to be agressive and even then...most don't make the cut.

Pits can be wonderful pets with the right person and environment.

 

The Law

The DDA(Dangerous Dogs Act) 1991 contained two main sections:

Section 1 of the Act stipulated that owners of the ‘type of dog known as a pit bull terrier’ and three other breeds (Japanese tosa, Dogo Argentino and Fila Braziliero) had to fulfil certain strict requirements. These included keeping the dog muzzled and on a lead at all times in a public place, having the dog insured and neutered with the aim of the breeds becoming extinct in the UK. Owners of these dogs were not permitted to give away or sell their dogs and any dog of a prescribed breed or type had to fulfil all of the requirements of the DDA 1991 by November 1991 or would become illegal. Owners were also given the option of accepting a token compensation from the government for having their dogs voluntarily destroyed. Individuals of these breeds were and still are banned from being imported into Britain.
The second part of the DDA 1991, Section 3, affects all dogs regardless of breed. It makes it a criminal offence to allow a dog to be dangerously out of control in a public place. This includes any instance during which an injury of any sort occurs or there is a fear that an injury might occur.
Under the DDA 1991, owners convicted of having either an ‘illegal dog’ or a dog which has injured a person for any reason, no matter how minor the injury, could have received a criminal record, up to £5000 fine and up to six months in prison. The dog would have been destroyed.




Now...I Know that Having Never Owned a Pit Bull...I Could Not Really Say Anything of What They are Like...

It Would be Similar of me Claiming that All Children are Horrible...

I was Only Stating my Opinion...

And From Experiance...My Dog Has Had many Vicious Attacks by Such Dogs...

My Dog is a Labrador...The All-Round Family Pet...However...When my Grandmother Emigratted to Canada...The First Day She was Pinned Against a Wall by a Labrador...Trained to be a Guard Dog...

True Indeed that Dogs are How They Have Been Bought up...

Pit Bulls may be Nice Dogs With the Best Upbringing...But mostly They are Bred for Sinister Purposes...I Have Never Heard of a Pit Bull Being an All-Round Family Pet...

The American Pit Bull is Listed Under as Being a Dangerous Dog Breed Due to the Fact of so Many Attacks by These Dogs being Reported...

There may be Few Individual Dogs that are Very Good...But it Would be a Long While Until I Can Ever Look Upon a Pit Bull and Think it is Not Vicious...

I was Simply Stating my Opinion...From Past Experience and Gathered Knowledge...

Unfortunatly...You Have a Fighting Breed of Dog...Nothing Will Change that Fact...However Loving the Dogs Have Been you Have Previously Owned...

Any Breed of Dog Has the Potential for Harm...But Dog Breeds Have Been Specifically Bred for Required Purposes...

I Wonder...From your Experiance...What are Pit Bulls Like With Other Dogs? And I mean a Strange Dog you meet While Out Walking...

 

That's because they are not an "all-around family pet" even the people who legally breed the pitbull or American Staffordshire Terrier(their AKC name) are the first ones to warn that pits are not meant to be kept in the house with small children as a lap or fireplace dog unless brought up properly from the time they are a small puppy.

and you want to talk about a group of people that are really ticked off at dog-fighting and breed-specific banning? It's the AKC. They are really miffed. Many reputable breeders and Pit-enthusiasts who showed their dogs had to leave Dade County. Some people had to leave after living in Dade their entire lives. The men who illegally breed fighting pits are also soiling and changing the breed. The AKC standard of how a pit should look is pretty different looking then the dogs often used in fighting.

The whole situation is such a hot shame and what's more obnoxious, all the moron animal-abusers who get busted for fighting dogs cry the racism card. They claim that the only reason why dog fighting is illegal is because it's an urban sport that's usually done in black and hispanic communities.

It never occurs to them that it's illegal because it's animal abuse..durrr.

 

I am a big fan of pit bulls (APBT) and would have one except for one thing - they are by nature a dog aggressive breed (and oddly by nature should be very human friendly). While it may not be PC to say APBTs were bred to fight - it's not "all in how you raise them" and you can't train it out of them. This is no different than the drive to hunt with hounds, the drive to chase small prey with greyhounds or the drive of a Border Collie to herd. The shelter was very wrong if they implied that once your chow put the APBT in his place all would be well. They are either totally ignorant about the breed or in denial, either way IMO they shouldn't be placing pit bulls since they can't do so responsibly.

This is my favorite pit bull info site:
http://www.pbrc.net/breedinfo.html

I honestly don't see these dogs working it out. Even if they seem to get along fine you could never trust them alone together. If you don't want to return the APBT than you could always just keep them apart in different parts of the house and rotate their time outdoors.

 

Yeah BBD, that whole "dog-agressive" thing is pretty serious. In Cuyahoga county, pits have to be muzzled when out in public.

My mom owns a self-serve dog wash and pits and other pit-mixes are banned from the shop. They were met with alot of anger from pit owners but my mom is concerned about the reaction that pits may have when in a place full of other dogs.

It's a safety caution, however, she has revealed that she believes that pits should be made extinct by making spaying and neutering of pits mandatory and breeding them, a crime. Obviously, she's not a fan. Her and I often butt heads about the issue.

But she also voted for Bush too...we just don't see eye to eye on some things.

 

The "dangerous breed laws" mentioned here are an Ohio state thing - not wide spread and recently deemed to be unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. The state of Ohio is now fighting the Supreme Court on the matter but I'm hoping they will be forced to change their laws to something not breed specific. Breed banning has no purpose and is supported and proposed by those who are either ignorant of the facts or have other agendas. Many proposed laws include not only "pit bulls" but many other popular large breeds. Such breeds include great danes, huskies, Rotties and sometimes even dogs over a certain weight (such as over 80lbs). Animal Rights groups support breed banning because they feel it gets them a step closer to their ultimate goal of all pets being illegal to own.
THE REAL PIT BULL--Your online source for American Pit Bull Terrier info!

A couple other things I want to comment on:

Pit bulls do not have locking jaws. They have a strong will and a "never say die attitude" (typical of all terrier breeds) which may make them SEEM like their jaws are locked when they are fighting or on prey (or even playing tug) but they are just hanging on.

If pit bulls were to be made extinct would the world forever be safe of aggressive dogs? My guess is there would be no noticeable change in such things. Other breeds have had the same bad images APBTs have right now - German Shepherds, Dobermans, Rotts and Akitas to name a few. This shows that the trends among people wanting big, scary, tuff dogs changes with time. It'd be a shame to make a breed extinct because of a trend in ownership.

Pit bulls are actually wonderful family dogs. They are known for being great with children and devoted to their family. A well bred APBT with a proper temperament is generally safer around the family children than many more popular breeds. Of course not all are well bred and not all have proper temperaments for the breed. The same can be said about all breeds. One of the scariest dog attacks I personally know about involved a Golden Retriever attacking a boarding kennel owner. That is very un-Golden like but not all individuals in any breed have the temperament they are supposed to.

The exception of course is that pit bulls are not wonderful family dogs for families who want them to play nice with other dogs - either at home or out and about. These are not dog park, multi-pet household types of dogs.

To the original poster - read up on pit bulls. If you insist on keeping your chow and APBT together invest in a "break stick" and learn to use it. Never leave them alone together and don't think any amount of training will change the dog's temperament.

 

Interesting. According to every dog book my mom has and the vets on those Animal Cops shows, they say that Pits do have locking(or rather jaws that stay clamped that can severe bone and maul flesh beyond repair) jaws. They have muscles in their head and jaws that other breeds don't, making their bite and attacks more formidable. No doubt that they have a greater will to hang on as well.

I think it's dangerous to claim that their bites and attacks aren't any more serious then say a golden retriever. They are worse. Part of my mom's despisement of pitbulls is because she used to work for a pediatric plastic surgeon who specialized in recontructive surgery. During her 10 years with him, she has witnessed the aftermath of 4 attacks by pits on children(2 of them were dogs in their own home) One girl's leg was nearly severed, my mom said that if you didn't know better, you'd think it had been a shark that did the damage.

I don't support breed-banning but I do agree with the muzzling in public, the mandatory $50,000 insurance policy, and the fencing laws. however, I do think muzzling should be mandatory for all dog individuals who are biters regardless of breed. If anything, for sheer self-protection in a sue-crazy society.

I don't dare compare bites from a poodle or even rottie to that of a pit. They can't compare. The worst attack inflicted by a rottie is not as bad as the worst attack inflicted by a pit. Period. I wish pit-enthusiasts would wake up and realize that. You can love a breed but don't be delluded about what and how they really are. A dog that has been bred for centuries to fight and take down large beasts. They weren't bred to be cuddly family dogs.