Do what you love! Let's make it happen, damnit!

*prepare yourself for some reading… I blather a bit(smile)* Hmm… Where to begin? I guess I have more than one shot at this, so I will just spit out some ideas. And see if anyone bites, right? J I am a young single mom… I hate what the world has come to, and what is means for my son. I don’t think I need to do a lot of explaining there. Working sucks! I definitely don’t want to be another cog in some ridiculous wheel spinning in no-place. I have a lot of skills, worth tons to anyone that can think straight, but they do me no good in a modern society where all an hour of our precious time earns us is a couple of loaves of poison bread and a pack of bologna.

I believe, in a very big way, that if every person did what they loved than the world would be a better place… Common sense right…nothing new. I guess what I am looking for are people who want to do what they love, not what they have to do in order to exist. I love gardening, I love animals, I love painting, I love creating things… All worth a lot, but to make these loves work “professionally”? Damn near impossible, right? What do you love to do? Would you want to do in a place where everyone loves what they do, where there is support, guidance, respect, and appreciation? I sure do!

I live on my family’s farm in rural Southwest Missouri, and for the most part I do damn well what I please, but I know I can be doing so much more… That this place has the potential to help a lot of people in great ways. It will take work… Doing what you love isn’t always easy at first.

The basics… My Dad owns forty acres, about 75 percent of which is “workable”… The other 25 percent is a large gully/waterfall(rainy season)*note: this gully could have many uses of its own if viewed creatively*. Here we are able to grow tons of food organically, raise a small amount of livestock(dairy and beef, pigs, chickens, turkeys… whatever really), and enjoy relative peace. We have close-ish neighbors, but around here everyone minds their own business. Another benefit of this property… It is COVERED in free building material! Rocks. J I have done some research on a super affordable and EASY way to build really efficient housing. I’ll include some links at the bottom of this post. So here I have the makings of everything it takes to set up something great. I group of like minded people, who want to get out of the rat race, invest their valuable time in making their lives richer, healthier, and doing what they love(ANYTHING!!!) is what I am looking for.

What kind of person would be best? Well, I am a single mom, and I know how tough you have to be to make it work. I would love for other single mom’s to think about it. Having your kids at your side, while you pursue whatever love you have(I want to build couches*tehehe*, maybe you can weave, paint, do pottery…). If you have a boyfriend who believes in a simpler life, by all means bring him. Single guys looking for a better way of life… Come on down! Strength is a skill worth SO MUCH when it comes to this kind of thing. Young couples/families… Grow your family freely, without the oppression of having to work apart all the time, sacrificing your loving bonds. And I am not just looking for young people… A project like this could use some level heads and experience. Young and old alike are welcome, this is what we all deserve. Anyone with a skill, a will, or who is ready to develop one or the other!

The logistics(damn financial crap has to creep in somewhere)… We have a mortgage on the property, amounting to about 30 grand… There is a bit of family politics involved, but I know that if I had people willing to stick to something and work hard, that these issues could be worked around. What it all amounts to is that my dad is sick and tired of this place, and has damn near given up on it many times. It is my belief that he would hand it over to anybody who was HONESTLY DEVOTED to making it a better place. The monthly payments are very small, but only a tiny portion is actually doing to the principle of the loan. This might sound like crap, but really it is a way to get 40 great acres without having to cough up the dough firsthand, or deal with credit problems… Just take over the payments and keep it in my father’s name… A mere 30 g’s split between a group is nothing… If we could pay $600 a month it would over double what my dad pays now. I don’t know all the details, but as soon as I have some people who are seriously interested, finding out more would be no problem.

All in all, it is about building a tiny empire, self sufficient, strong, and supportive. There shouldn’t be a need for anyone to work a regular job, assuming that they had skills to build upon. There is a large market in this area for organic fruits/veggies(can you use a hoe?*smile*), many easily accessible farmers markets and restaurants to sell these to, and this is the Ozarks baby, ARTS and CRAFTS MECCA of the WORLD! J There are innumerable places to go with any items we choose to produce or create, not to mention the world wide web is on our side.

Please, give me some feedback. Let me know if anything I said sounds good. Lend me your ideas, your advice, your support. I think we could make this happen. Ask questions freely! Thanks so much.

*final note: I love spiritual enlightenment of all natural kinds, and it would absolutely be welcome in a world of our creation, so long as no one intended to misuse or abuse it!*

http://www.hollowtop.com/cls_html/cls.html#Articles *stone house link, very interesting!*

 

What a wonderful location to spring off from
Here in the finger lakes region (NY) people have balked at the severity of winter - for me a wonderful time of joining with the elements to recluse oneself within what they offer. While I prefer driving all the way in - when I have to park at the bottom and walk up the 2 miles, I always Bless that time. I have to go out every night for a night route along the hilltops delivering the news I refuse to read with the company of the elements and fellowship of thekingdoms; mineral, vegetative, and fauna.
Sometime the Way of Doing means that the individual must Do before the group coalesces - for many a stumbling block and excuse to not Do.

May your Way be made clear.

 

Children are rarely accepted in communes, 'cause the community shares the cost of raising them. This means that there are many families and single parents who would very much like to live in a commune, but they can't find a place that will allow them in.

ic.org has a list of communes and intentional communities. That is the place to find people.

Here is something you might want to consider, it is a system which allows (hopefully) individuals to make decisions, giving individual freedom, which is the one thing that communes fail at.
http://conceivia.com/about-us/individual-decision-power/

Initially, one source of income could be something called community supported agriculture. That is where people buy a share of the food produced, before it is even produced. It is becoming popular now days. It is a way of selling food efficiently, in large quanity, by selling a year's supply at a time. Then you simply deliver it weekly or whatever.

Tony

 

Several misconceptions generally associated with community:

Many communities do not list - ours included (- any listings you might find ours in, has not come from us) - and most communities you see listed never make it to community - they say forming - which means it is in the wishful phase - few make it out of that phase.

Many communities accept children - as a matter of fact, though I hesitate to say most, - many do not consider themselves 'whole' without children - but the sad fact - and please no offense is intended and this points at no-one - that most single parents have learned to tap into the gov tit - and in community involving the gov becomes a real hassle - and so thay are careful to make sure what that might involve.

There are many types of communities - almost as many as are communities - strange huh ? And the ways they make decisions are not all the same.
Concensus means that people agree that for now this seems to be the best choice everyone can agree on trying - it does not mean every one "gets their way" but it does mean everyone decides it is worth a try

Communities MUST have communication - both a plus and a minus - often so much time is spent talking nothing gets done - but without that people feel that they are not really included. In this process of communication each community comes to it's own way of dealing with decision making
Not all communities are egalitarion which means all may not be shared. Sometimes individuals rights come first. Depends on the community and what the members decide on.

To suppose and generalize about an individual community is paramount to doing the same for any other individual entity that may be involved with others .... each is very very different - hence why most suggest you visit and then have an extended visit before both you and the community decide that you both resonate enough to give each other a chance to create harmony - most also have a trial period where the incoming person and community 'try' each other for a while.

It is not about individual power - it is about individuals working together as a whole.
Many communities recognize that if the individual is overrun - they tend not to stay.
If one is not interested in working out compromises - suggest they shy away from community - Compromise does not mean giving away personal power - it does mean that one is not so self oriented that everything must go the way they originally wish them to go.

If you are interested in community - you may wish to visit several - so many never get beyond the 'forming level' that it is important to visit several. Ic.org is a wonderful place to start from and from there talk to people involved in communities about others they may have heard of. Many communities go by word of mouth and places like these may be the only place you find them - But that does not make them less viable because of that.

A good rule of thumb is to make no assumptions before you visit - those already established will have the sour grapes aimed at them for succeeding; those forming are fairly protective about bringing in disharmony.
Come prepared to be a positive source of energy -... or maybe it would be better to re-evaluate your own Self first.
The community is not there to save you from anything - it is there to enhance peoples lives - as they so choose to make happen.
Having a good concept of who you are and what you want goes a long way in helping one make decisions about whether any specific community is 'for them' or not.

And always keep in mind - this IS a Learning process - mistakes generate solutions - and nothing is ever written in stone that cannot be shattered by Change.

Be your own Change before asking others to be your Change !


And by your choices you draw to yourselves the lesson needed for your own Growth.
So it has ever been - even when in denial.

Blessings along the Way - ahh the Lessons we learn from !

 

Okay, a friend of mine and I were considering going to Montana, because there the homestead act was reinstated, and we were going to start a goat farm.

But we don't really have the means to do it.

So I would be really interested in what you are thinking about getting going. I think goats are good to have, you can make a lot from their milk...soap, cheese...plus because cow milk is actually pretty bad for you, goat's milk is getting popular along with the organic food movement.

I love kids, and I would like to teach, but not according to this education system, which is total bullshit. I don't know if the kids at the commune would be going to a public school, but even if they are, would it be useful to have a teacher? Who teaches them things worth knowing, suited to their personalities and interests?

I just finished high school. I am going to Africa in about a year, and I will be there for about 18 months...I will actually be doing some teaching, so I will gain experience in that regard...after that, my life is an open book for the writing. When were you thinking of getting started up?

Let me know!!! Society is getting to be too much for me these days. I want to get away from it, but at the same time, I love people, and I don't want to be a hermit with no one to talk to.

Please contact me ambria_n_taylor@yahoo.com

 

Have you thought about straw bale or cob construction? The cost for square footage is cheaper and the insulation value of straw bale can't be beat. Straw bale is also less labor intense. Cob is really really cheap, but really labor intense and time consuming. What kind of rock do you have on the property?

 

Thanks Oldwolf, for the thought provoking advice, and Antpower, for the info. Lemming Eater, I'll be getting back to you personally very soon... Goats are great! When I was much younger my family raised them, they are great animals, but I find that cows are much less fussy. *haha* Hey Crypto, I have looked into to both of those, though not as extensively as the slip-form masonry. I kindof gave straw-bale the old heave ho pretty quick... It seems to me like the weather here wouldn't be very friendly to such a structure(maybe not with the crazy weather these days?), and cob, well... You said it with labor intensive and time consuming. I settled on Slipform masonry because while being requiring lots of work, it is a simple concept and when all is said and done I would have a sturdy, damn near no-maintainence home that will last forever, not to mention the fact that it is pretty inexpensive. The rock on my property? Well, I am no geologist, but I know that I have a wide variety, and lots of it. I think that almost any rock is suitable for rubblestone slipforming. Also, thinking of the area in which I live, it would be VERY easy to come by lots more... How many fields do you drive by in Missouri with PILES of rocks in the corners that Farmers have tossed there to get out of the way? Also, I think that I could get free, or cheap reinforcing material to help with cost reduction and supplement the rebar... Offering to haul away junk fencing material like bent t-posts and stock panels and such. If it weren't for heavy labor, I could build one of these things by myself.

 

Hi IvoryVision,

Sounds like an interesting project you are working on.

I agree with you on so many points. I have friends and met people who are IMO wasting their lives working at meaningless jobs to pay the rent. One person that comes to mind is a friend who is a fantastic artist but works at Burger King and goes to school for business management. Between going to school, work, maintaining her house and catching a few hours sleep when she can, she has no time for the things she truly enjoys. Her art work!

I am interested in your project. Just some of the things I enjoy are: writing, nature, martial arts (which I never have time for anymore), and raising/breading animals.

I also love the law, not the laws we currently have, but the concept of law. As an advocate I often have to study the law to fight the good fight.

I like being out in nature and when I have time I enjoy hiking and fishing.

I have wanted to try different green building techniques and was going to see if I could complete a small shed in my back yard. The land lord put a stop to that out of fear that it would raise their taxes. Anyway, I found a small area deep in the woods where I am going to see if I can build a small 3 room shed using (mostly)only the materials that are in the local area. I am nowhere near an expert in building. In fact, I am just learning. Even this small project is going to take some time to complete.

With all that said, my one true love is and always will be helping other people especially thoes who are unable to help themselves.

 

I have been thinking more on my little(big) dream of living a communal lifestyle(sounds so sterile... I think of it more as a big family, at least that is what I wish for...) and have some more to add/amend to my previous post. Really, I have been thinking about it for a long time, but this is the first time that I have ever really put it in words, so am stumbling through making my ideas make sense. Ideas are so big, and words can only capture so much. *smile*

I have to say, very honestly, that I hadn't put tons of time into thinking about the "organization" or "descision making" processes involved with forming a commune, and was a little taken by surprise when Oldwolf popped up with such an in-depth response to my post... I know that there needs to be order and cooperation, but I just assumed that as people started to come together we would, very much like a growing family, find a way to function happily and productively through natural trial and error, and that we would eventually find the right way for us and have that be the precedent we continue to follow in the future.

The touchiest thing about this for me(and I suppose for many others) is trying to find where money(silly unreal paper and coins) comes in to the situation. I absolutely do not expect anyone to bail myself or my family out... I know the mortgage stuff sounds really awful, but I felt I had to put it out there in all it's ugliness. While it is far from being a huge part of what I have invisioned, it is a piece of the puzzle that needs to be solved. In all truth, my family and I are people who set out to get away from the rat race, start a family business and live freely, but like so many people, we got dragged under by the financial monster. Everyone in our situation would want help, I sure do. But that isn't the reason for my wanting to begin something like this... Ultimately I want to help people, people like me. People who want to "get away from it all" and live better. And I know that I have a cow by the tail, and could use a hand hanging on to her... But let's all share the milk after we tackle her and tame her, and then turn her babies into hambugers. *tehehe*

The "Big Family" thing feels so right to me... Commune isn't the word I want to use. I want love and respect and support between everyone, even if there are arguments or issues... Not just having to put up with someone because they live in the same neighborhood. Does that make sense? *scratches head*

More on doing what you love... A theory I have is that many people are unhappy these days because they don't know what they love to do. Teenagers get out of highschool, and SO MANY decide to go to "school" to learn something only because of it money making potential. But they abandon their true loves, the things that really got them excited when they were young and exuberant(not worried about the crush of modern life), their hobbies, crafts, talents, skills... They go to a school and are taught little bits of lots of things, and made to ignore what they really love doing. "If you don't know algebra, you won't make it..." And we all come to believe that our loves aren't as important as knowing "what we need to know to get by".

Which leads me to... I have this vision of each person in this "Big Family" being able to pursue their unique and individual skill, and be able to "make a living" at the same time. For example: I like to paint and sew... I can build a couch, paint it beautifully, and then sew beautiful cushions for it. I can also tend the garden and animals(earn my food), work on my home(enough said, right?), chop wood, mend fence, ect., and then go with my fellow artisans(for lack of a better word) to sell our combined wares in various different ways to supplement our other "entirely" self sufficient actions. Each person would be worth something, no matter what their skill was. No one skill is less important, or more productive than the other. The person who enjoys taking care of the cows... By all means do that! You are ensuring the happiness of our milk makers and steaks. You don't like taking care of cows, but prefer to spend your time organizing and keeping things running smoothly... Great! I can be a scatter brain. *haha* Someone loves to grow flowers! Thats lovely, we can sell them to the local florists. What I'm saying is that each person' strength will be appreciated fully... You can do what you love, and it is still important, and worthy, and desired, and it can enrich everyone's life.

Dalamar... Wow! What you said makes so much sense to me. Your friend is a great example of what I am talking about... If she lived in a place where she had the support of others, where she wasn't expected to scratch through life all by herself, she could focus more time on her art, but still have a full and productive life. I am very glad that you are interested. When you said that above all you want to help others that can't help themselves, that touched me deeply. It's what I want for this communal family... For it to be the helping hand, the shoulder to cry on, the leg up, a boost. It's so hard to make it these days, but it doesn't have to be, if people helped eachother lovingly. If you have any questions feel free to ask... About anything, really... It will give me a place to begin getting some of this stuff out of my head! Oh, and about the green building... Thats marvelous! Did you check out the link on slipform masonry... Cool stuff. I know concrete isn't as green as it gets, but it's a good start. We have quite a few old barns and sheds here that I have been dying to tear down and build something new with(I have a fantasy chicken coop in my mind's eye*smile*)... The wood is marvelous old aged oak... Our old out-buildings don't do it justice!

Lemming Eater... Great question from you... When would I like to start? Well... Today. Really... I don't think there is some magical date, or set number of people, or certain amount of dollars needed to get this going. In fact, starting small was something I counted on. Like a family(I am family oriented, cant you tell?*smile*), it is easier to work your way up, than to have sextuplets, right? *haha* I figured that a few people would be interested, come to see if it's for them, and if they felt like they wanted to join in then we could decide as a group where to start. Learn as we go. By the way... Teaching... That's beautiful. Especially with what I have in mind with wanting so badly to help other single parents and young families... I would love to have lots of young ones enjoying this kind of life, and someone with the patience to teach is always needed. Public school is definitely not on the agenda for my son... I feel very strongly that it isn't what's best for our newest generation, or the ones past for that matter. I want to home school my son, but want him to have the experience of interacting and learning with other children... Teacher... That's such a great word. Someone who imparts knowledge.

Keep it coming, everyone. Thanks so much!

 

Hi IvoryVision~

Be prepared because I got a long reply here. I love your idea for a creative/artisan approach to communal living. Sort of like an artisans guild community.
I live in New York City and have lived here since birth. By profession, heart and mind I am a social worker (fostercare). I have a gypsy heart that needs tending to. For years now I have dabbled in various crafts, particularly jewelry making. I've sold quite a bit to friends, family and friends of friends, but spending alot of time with it is just not an option here, now. I'm in the process of getting rid of my "things". I will be (as much as one can) shedding the shackles of materialism by May. I am now tying up loose ends here in Brooklyn, as well as putting some $ away in case my experiment to take off does come to be what I'm hoping. Coming back to NY in a situation like that with no money would be very difficult. Sometimes, I wish I had the courage to just walk away and leave it all right now, but I don't. And I digress....

I come from a long line of Southern Italian's who worked with the land for a long time and along the roads to survive. I know I have it in me. And while it would be great to feed my creative side while on your land, I also long to get my hands dirty. Work with the land, build things and be among people who share the same feelings. My grandparents were born here in Brooklyn and they turned their backs on the old world ways. They still laugh about my great-grandmother walking the streets of lower Brooklyn (by the Brooklyn Bridge) carrying a huge basket of vegetables on her head and walking up and down the streets to sell her goods. Instead my grandparents craved what post WWII was offering and they passed this on to my mother. My parents loved things and taught me to love things too, but I was fortunate enough to be part of the college generation. It is here that I started to think critically about the world around me. About obtaining meaningless work to get status and wealth, to buy things, to dig yourself deeper in meaningless work, to buy things, to stress, etc. And I do not make fun of those who choose to live this life, if it fulfills something in them, so be it. I believe it is great that we live in a society of choices, diverse as they may be. My point here is, I do not know how to do these things with the land or build, although I know it's in my blood and so I yearn to learn them. I am also a teacher at heart and I am willing to teach anyone who desires to create jewelry and other such crafts....needlepoint, knitting, crocheting, sodering, in these senses I am good with my hands. I even have a miniature indoor garden in my tiny NY apartment...it's not there to feed me but to keep me connected with the soil.
I have read many of OldWolfs posts and I really connect to his words. It also appears that he has alot of equipment, land and quite a bit of experience with these things...I thought his Way of being would be a refreshing experience and I hoped to learn from him how to be with the land and build things, but I am unsure of his location. I am more and more sensitive to the cold weather and he said the winters can be rough up north there.

I wasn't certain how you expected to pay your dad's mortgage if we were just living off the land, until you were more sepcific in your last post....it all sounds great. In theory yes and I'd be willing to find out if it would work out in reality too. It takes people in the process to see. So like I said I can contribute with my craft and I would love to get messy and make a home for us. Again, I can't leave here until May, but I can visit so we can share thoughts and such way before then. I am gonna post some pics of my jewelry and stuff so you can check them out. I'm not sure how deep in trouble your dad is with the land there and I hope we can make it work for you and your family, while we all enjoy life together. It does sound nice to do what we love and then spend the evenings around a campfire sharing stories and bangin' on some drums with like-minded folk!
Peace~
Gina

 

IvoryVision, I really like your idea. This a great thread. Others that have replied have shared wonderful information also.

I'm not sure that I would be interested in living in Missouri, but I'll keep up with this thread. Oh, by the way, I'm a 26 year old single male and I'm sure that your idea will catch the eye of others as well.

What would I want in a commune? Well, I'm just beggining to learn about them. I've been interested in purchasing my own 100 acres for an organic farm sometime within the next 5-10 years, but I'm beggining to understand the importance of community. That being said, I'd need space to build a cob home for myself, a wife and children (one day, I hope), and pastureland for a couple of ponies, a couple of donkeys, and maybe a team of oxen.

I would love it if all in the commune shared views about natural hygiene, not shaving, not wearing deodorant or bras (for health reasons), and possibly interested in vegetarian diets. I'm into barefooting and wearing organic natural clothing also.

A very natural simple life would be my requirement. Oh, and I would like to be able to grow fruits also. I do prefer warmer climates for fruit crops, longer growing seasons, and lower energy inputs for heating. I don't need electricity. I'd like to keep vegies in a cool celar.

I would like to be amogst others that believe in christianity also. Those are just things that are obvious to me at this point.

 

I do believe that a group could team up to pay off your father's farm's martgage early. It wouldn't have to be done up front. Applying extra to the principle would melt it quickly. Members might have to get off farm part-time jobs to get things off of the ground. Once the farm starts to produce a sufficient income, all can agree on application of the money, and attack the mortgage together.

 

While I do know more about Cob, slipform masonry would seem to be better suited for that location for the reasons that you have explained above such as being less time consuming than cob, and having rocks available.

 

this is a good post, I thank all that have responded so far, It has brought me some joy to see that there are still some people willing to work towards a goal.

as for the how to get things done, a post like this is a good start. all good ideas need a sounding board to find out which ones make sense and which ones just aren't viable.

the main problem I've encountered trying to start a commune always comes down to two main points. Money and People.

I suggest you look into all the other commune websites out there and devellop a structure that would fit in the lifestyle you have in mind and then work from there changing it depending on the members and the energy of the group. things will fall into place but mistakes may cost good people or friendships. planning, good planning can make this easier to deal with.

The saving the family farm and starting a commune at the same time is good but I think might alianate a lot of people. Like you said kind of a big mess that must be fixed. people comming together to help pay the mortgage is great but it sure is awful to realise after putting in a years worth of wages and sweat that you don't fit with the group and leave empty handed. especially since the land is owned by a person and not the group. has your family thought of leasing/renting the land or possibly even subdividing it and sell part of it to the commune you are starting, with some sort of conditions that your family retains/owns part of the title.... I'm mostly throwing ideas out there but hopefully it's getting people to plan and research/think about alternatives.... rent out land for weekends to campers. teach classes on the land for a small fee with the fee going to pay the morgage... sell some of those rocks... people that show up give low intrerest loans to your dad and pay the mortgage off quick and then pay people back their money plus 1% so it's actually considered a loan or something... hope some of these ideas help.



I hope that this does not discourage anyone from starting something, but instead I hope it encourages people to start organizing their thoughts, putting them together on paper or on the net and keep building the plan.

Also you don't need to have anything to start building a plan or to start fostering a community. just the will and the drive to get you there.

Good healt and good luck. keep us posted!

 

While it is at the top of my brain, and to help answer some questions as to what might be done about the mortgage... I'll try and break down what's going on with it as best as I can.
My parent's owned the land free and clear, up until a few years ago when they took out a loan to start their own business(raising dogs). They bought a small car so my dad could commute to his long distance job(the car is now dead, being used for feed storage*ugh*), and bought some dogs(chihuahuas, at the time, now we have bull mastiffs), and built a large cinderblock kennel. During the construction of the kennel, some stuff came up, and it ended up costing way more than estimated... This left my parents without the resources they needed to finish the kennel properly, there was a bad winter and an unhealthy dog purchased that infected quite a few of our others, and we ended up losing quite a few of our dogs. Since then, the kennel hasn't really been completed, and hasn't been used for dogs in nearly four years. It is structurally sound, the only thing it is lacking is a complete ceiling and proper isulation. We currently use it as storage space, and a makeshift living area when extraneous members of the family need a place to rest their heads.
My Dad has been treading water with the mortgage, with help from myself and one other sister, we have made it through tough patches. There are seven of us kids all together... This might not seem very important, but you will understand in a little bit why I am including this info. Most of us have moved away, myself and aforementioned sister being the only two who really care what happens to the family farm, the only ones interested in reviving it's potential. This brings me to what most of you are probably concerned about... Where you(if interested) would fit/what the stakes are/ownership concerns/ect...

I have talked this over with my Dad a few times before(my idea of turning the farm into a place for communal living), and he has warmed to the idea, although he is skeptical... I don't know that he believes that I can find anyone who would care. What his dreams for the place(they closely mirror my own, although I'm not sure that he fully grasps it yet) are... He wants this farm to be a place where his children can come back to, where they can get back on their feet, where they can build homes, grow families, and live stress free. He is getting older(he is 63 this year), and has talked to Lisa(the other concerned sister) and I about what he wants to happen to the place if he were to pass away… All he really wants is that all of us children be entitled to use the land communally, if you will… He knows that the debt will probably fall to those of us willing to take it on, and that we would be the “owners” but that we would have to ensure that there is always a place for any one of us kids that needed it or wanted it.

His problem… He feels old and, like I said before, has wanted to throw his hands up and walk away many times. It really saddens me to see him like that, when I know that we could still do so much. I said once before that if I came to him with people who wanted to make something of this farm*what he has always wanted*, with goals and a plan, that he would welcome the change, so long as there was always a place for his family.

It is hard, nearly impossible, to say right now exactly how the legal stuff would work out. More than likely we would need a lawyer to help us put it in writing. My general idea… If someone puts blood, sweat and tears into the place they, in essence, own a “piece of the pie“. If they were to decide that it isn’t for them, and wanted to go, we would make sure they didn’t leave empty handed. Isn’t that what Family does? And they are always welcome to come and stay for awhile, or give it another shot if they want… Of course, there might be people who come and put in their time, and for some reason or another can’t tolerate a thing about it and think they never want to come back… Still, they won’t leave empty handed.
I keep coming again and again to the word “family”… If we all treat each other like family, and not like a business venture, then I don’t think there would be much question over what to do when things come up. Let’s say you lend money to your mom… She might not be able to pay you back right away, or she might never be able to “pay you back your money”, but she would remember that you helped her, and she would be there with clean sheets, a hot meal, and a loving hug should you ever find yourself in a spot of trouble… Now that’s an investment.
BrooklynGal... Gina*smile*... I had to smile when I read your reply. First I must say that you are very smart to have a back up plan... And I understand completely the difficulty of tearing yourself away from a world that has "made sense for so long"... It's like a bad boyfriend of sorts, isn't it. It makes me so ridiculously happy when someone posts back saying, "I have dabbled in this, and am good at that, and enjoy something or another..."! Those are the words that build up to a passion, the stuff that makes you want to get up and get going with the day. Your creative abilities would be much appreciated, everything you said is something I myself have been wanting to learn... Your willingness to teach is admirable! Admirable also is your want to get your hands dirty. *haha* It is definitely a good thing to want when working to bring a farm back to life. That makes my heart jump. *smile*
That's lovely what you said about wanting to get back to your roots... Hearing about your great-grandmother made me chuckle. I love that! Thanks you so much for sharing your thoughts, and your story... I can relate to both on a deep level.
I am glad to be able to get such wise advice from so many people... Like you said, Oldwolf is on to something. I take heart in the fact that while I might not be able to join them directly, such wise people are willing to stay connected and offer so much through their words.
A note on the weather for you, and maybe to flesh things out a bit for RawAndNatural... This year our plum tree made plums. Significant? Yes. *smile* We planted this plum tree when I was 7 or 8, I am now 21. It was supposed to make fruit within a year or two of planting. My mom and I agree that, sad as it is, the climate has changed in a serious way. Missouri is a warmer place than it has ever been the whole time I have lived here(18 years), but that's another subject entirely.
You have a sweet light about you Gina, and I dearly appreciate your loving and helpful attitude. I know with people as open as you willing to try, that success can't be too far away. May is wonderful... Closer than we both believe, I'm sure. *smile* We will definitely talk more detail very soon.
RawAndNatural... You have some great ideas! I feel what you are saying... What moves you is what my concept is all about. I want everyone to do what makes them comfortable and happy(with respect for others, of course) and encourage everyone to do what is right for them. When it comes to no d.o.(*smile*, I use all natural aluminum free), some people might find that a hard sell. And I am omnivorous, but have the utmost respect for those that choose a vegetarian diet. I don't want someone to feel like they have to conform to fit in... Let's embrace our individuality.
On people having "outside jobs"... You may very well be right. In the beginning it might be nessessary to earn the capitol required for a project/business/idea/ect. But it definitely isn't the only route, and as long as we are able to live with less, conserve and plan, then we should be able to do most anything we want without having to sell our precious time for peanuts. Attack the mortgage together... That's a fantastic sentence. Your post on that said what I needed to say in a great way.
Selfsustainingsociety... Thanks so much for your reply. It's important to put out there what you did... I think that I touched a few of your points in the beginning of this post. I agree that planning is important. <-- I feel silly writting that it, is so common sense. Mostly, I am gathering ideas, and hopefully gathering some heads(sounds gorey*haha*) to put together so that the plan will be well rounded, and not something concocted all by my lonesome.
Something important I should say, and you made a great point that ties into it... I don't expect anyone to show up with money,ready to throw it down on the mortgage. You implied that we should utilize the resources that already exist to kill the mortgage, and I agree. Your ideas are really good! Within 5 miles of either side of this property are two major creeks/recreational areas... Renting to campers could be something really great. Your ideas are a great help, and have gotten even more wheels turning in my head.
I am going to get on top of putting up some pictures of the land so that you all can see how lovely it is. There are parts of it that need some serious help. But for the most part, excluding the immediate areas that have been neglected due to lack of money and motivation(the house and out buildings) it is a beautiful peice of land with so many possiblilities.
One more thing before I go to bed... RawAndNatural said something about fruit... We have a very small orchard with peaches and pears and cherries(gee, I almost left out the plums, they are so new to me!), and running rampant across our back pasture... Luscious wild black berries. I have been gorging on them recently. Yum!

 

Just a thought about the legal end. We are trying for NP (non-profit) Co-Op with shares. Our idea is that for each year of endeavor (we formalize it @ 25 hrs /wk. or what the consensus of that amount of time/jobs equals on an average [some people work much more efficeintly than others])each person acrues 10 more shares with the shares = $100 ea, - should any wish to leave, the community buys back their shares . Those bringing in assets are given the amount of shares = to what the consensus the community comes up with those assets are worth (this can of course include cash - the green energy) - however we ask that the value should be lower than what any assett could be sold easily for on the open market - that way there's a feeling that nobody is gouging the community. We call this concept a dowry with strings attached - we use this to make it so that people who have sweat equity can have something to leave with if and when there should come a parting of the ways , plus many have asked how they could get out the value of their assets should they come in with some - this esp. pertains to capital.
I am not sure that a Co-Op can have shares - that usually goes with a corp. and a NP can have shares but any profits must go back to the nature of the grounds that make it a NP in the first place (religious, educational , or social - so my research has said). Of course I strongly suggest a lawyer draw up the paperwork - that he be a good lawyer and friendly - if you are doing a NP lawyers are supposed to do a certain amount of work gratis (free) every year for the benefit of the society from which the make their money and often will draw up NP paperwork for a relatively small charge being able to say that the rest of their fee was gratis.

There are several organizational modes any community can use - Co-Op, Collective, Inc., Corp., Np Org., partnerships - to name those that come to mind. Each type has benefits and drawbacks; and it would benefit you to do your own research before going to a lawyer.

Some have been upset that community needs to go legalese - but it is a protection for the community, which becomes a legal entity unto itself, as well as a protection for each individual involved, and for any visitors. It is a hassle, but fairly important - and I do not know of any extant communities that are into long term continuity that do not have some sort of legal footwork to formalize their agreement. Primary amoung the agreements is called a Statement of Purpose - which is the single most important issue any community must agree on. Then you have your bylaws - which is basically how you guys want to govern yourselves - this is impotant when - note I do not say if - disputes arise. As so many have said and it cannot be emphasized enough the primary necessity for community is communication !

Please keep us posted - there have been all too few attempts tried from this forum and seldom do we get feedback as to what they faced to help us make our own way through the labrynth of the actual manifestation of something so many of us yearn for.

Another little footnote is about the number of people involved...... this by way of experience; usually beyond 15 becomes unweildly esp in formative stages - after it's a going concern and fairly well established growth in numbers becomes more feasable.

It sure sounds like you have an ideal place to start off from to form a community - esp, with the idea that expansion is fairly feasable.


Blessing along your Way - and remember the primary purpose is to learn - we may not succeed in our endeavor - but I sure do hope we will learn from it - aye ?

Doing becomes the Blessings for those Doing.

 

Wow IvoryVision you really got some good responses here...information and support!
I guess we can continue this thought sharing process on the boards here and possibly we can set a date (Sept. Oct Nov or Dec...whichever works for others) to come and talk with you and your dad about the details of a plan. Maybe if he sees in person interested folk, it'll lighten his heart? Let's see how many other people would be interested, if it ends up to be you and me to begin with...well it's a beginning. Sounds exciting and interesting huh?
Gina

 

Also, I was reading OldWolf's post on a non-profit coop, where shares are distributed based upon work/time and initial investment (items/$$). He states that he has it setup so that each person accumulates shares based on these things and that if/when they leave they return their shares ($100/per share or whatever is decided on per share price) to the coop and they receive this back when they leave. This is not only a good incentive to attract people and such but also investment for startup costs. Personally, I would be willing to invest some of the $$ I am saving, with such an agreement in place. It ascertains that if I do need to come back to NY, I will not be completely empty handed. I realize that assumes the $$ is there to draw upon and I guess an idea would be that a certain percentage of the community $$ needs to be kept there for such situations. The details could be thought about...just an idea.

 

gosh - so often i just read and do not feel the impulse to put my own oar in the water, so to speak, - this is new to me to put in post after post in a thread - please feel free to tell me or email or pm iffn any thinks i'm being too wordy or overwhelming in any way.....

One of the reasons i think of community is because of my nomadic leanings - strange combo huh ?...... But you see I want to come back to people i love and care about and feel good about being with and they with me - yet I want to See and partake in and with others too.
In my idealic community those who feel called to travel would be encouraged - in truth I see a community where there are maybe 20 >40 people involved, but needing only 5 or so to maintain the status and keep the whole of the community functioning. So each member might commit to being there - being it - for 2 months, or a season, or whatever; and the rest of the time is theirs - not necessarily away from the community, but maybe trying out new things - a new enterprise that they feel pulled toward, and maybe even a group get going - maybe it comes to be a mainstay for the community, maybe not.
Each person Needs to feel fulfilment - a moving toward that - a Growing - Becoming that which gives them fire - else we will move on.

I see the community having vehicles which are for general use (lordy knows that as a route driver, I have waaayyy too many vehicles - ask those who've visited - but Having no electric or pumping - I see motors as invaluable and vehicles have so many useful parts for those who tinker and make do - a creative supply for all kinds of projects.

Should the community find an involvement that brings in a lot of green enrgy to be one that they enjoy doing (i.e. not just for the monetary rewards but for the co-operatve feeding of the cycles of the Whole) - why should we not help others travel so that new ideas and an influx of wonderful interested people comes back to spur us on to greater geights. One of the problems with many communities - wellll.... - not really, but could be if there wasnot such a change over - is stagnation do to the lack of interaction and the stimuli that it brings, with others outside of the community.

You hear of some wanting to recluse themselves from the world - But there are so many people who are so wonderful, who are Doing - who have fantastic ideas - and we can all feed each others fires.

From the Hollow you can hear the buzz of the highway - for many a drawback - but as long as it's not overwhelming, it reminds us that the world goes on out there and - we are not alone or islands - We Are all Connected.

And no I'm not stoned, just buzzing with the overflow of good energy from this thread.

May it Grow !

Namaste

 

Greetings Oldwolf~

I love your shares. They are certainly not overwhleming to me and I feel they bring good things to consider. I suppose many of us who seek this community life also have a wandering, curious heart. I know I do. It would be satisfying to find that group of people in which to share this way of life with, while we all did what we could to have the basics of living, bring love and support into each others hearts and still feel free to wander and fulfill other curiosities. Perhaps, with the start of IvoryVisions "vision" we could work together to include her space among those places to be. I am open to such an ideal, hoping we can all make it real.
Peace and oneness with the universe.
Gina