Border Control

I don't let selective enforcment to substitute for revision.

Selective enforcment is what we have now. We have lax border security, and they come here because we have jobs we invite them over here for.

Many firms in the US are even advertising for work on Mexican radio.

We should have revision. That revision involves tougher border controls and allowing more people to cross over legally in a transperent manner.

That also means we should give citizenship oppurtunities to people who are already here, being law abiding, and working.

They did break the law to get here, but they broke it out of desperation, and the fact we were selectivly enforcing it.

We offered them jobs and weak border security, and they took the chances to help their destitue families. You would do the same, and you shouldn't take it as a personal attack on US laws because of it.

We need to change our laws. That is very clear.

 

Almost all the reforms we need to make our through enforcing laws already on the books as well.

Illegal immigration is the governments failure, not immigrants. We can't kick them out, especially when we allowed them to become illegal by the failures in the first place.

And we benifit from their labor.

 

Many, many laws should be changed.

Regardless violators of valid, existing laws
should not/cannot be rewarded for their illegal actions...
pardoned perhaps (even that's a reach) but not rewarded.

Yes, the first(?) amnesty program was a mistake.

 

i lived in lubbock texas for a little over 5 months, the population is mostly hispanic...but whoopdedoo, whities come, whities go. we're gonna be bred out anyways, and possibly for good reason, theres enough peopel as is, we shouldnt start a breeding ocntest, and we shouldnt let hundreds of millions of people suffer in extreme poverty so a lighter skin toned country of hundred of millions can live in with rediculously high living standards.
so what if we lower our living standards so others can increase theirs, are we all truely that selfish? we can't continue using the amount of resources per person we do, look at whats happening to our planet...

 

I do thiink there should be some form of border control. Atleaste til america gets back on its feet and stops with the downward spiral.

Besides I could handle living next to pedro alot better than I could some white middle class mini-van driving disney family that's calling the cops everytime I walk out the door.

What's so funny to me is these people are trying so hard to get into our country and people like myself are trying so hard to get the fuck out.

 

We are discussing
illegal immigration not breeding (overpopulation) aren't we?
*confused*

If overpopulation is the subject
shouldn't the catholic Church be a major, if not THE,
focal point?

 

Rat, you do realize that the US has a higher population than Mexico, and therefore even if every single person in Mexico hopped the border they still wouldn't outnumber Americans.

 

immigration has almost everything to do with living standards which has almost everything to do with over population.
personally i believe in thre free movement of people. i dont like a bunch of men with large guns telling me i can't walk past those invisible lines to see a part of the world which they deem to own.
you're all a bunch of bullies telling the mexican kids they can't go down your slide because their mexican, uless they have the express permission of the cool kids i.e. the ones in power.

 

thats a pretty simplified way of looking at it. because every american has investments in american through taxes. foreigners haven't paid into any of the infrastructure or capital that allows a country to maintain high standards of living.

therefore, for economic migrants, it makes sense to only allow those who will be bringing capital/infrastructure with them - either through cash or education.

 

just cuz kids want to sit at your table doesnt mean you have to share your lunch with them.

 

really? they can't use the roads, or hospitals, or schools?

 

Moose, we can't allow everyone who wants to come to America come. We don't have the resources to manage a very large number of immigrants, and if a very large (say more then 1 million a year) came to the US, we would not be able to provide jobs or education, or basic social services like phones and sewer managment for any of them.

This would neither benifit migrants or the US.

So It obviously makes sense to limit the number of people who come in at any time. We can allow more people in, improve their quality of life, and benifit from it for our labor pools if we do it wisely.

If we handle this immigration the wrong way, we'll have many jobs we can't fill. Immigration is a great advantage to the US, we just need to find a way to make it legal, safe, and taxable.

 

Spooner is very right, our taxation does help pay for roads, sewer managment, hospitals, schools...

We can't deny any people who come in to America these things, but if we allow everyone in, we won't be able to aside from work, these essential services.

 

Taxes also pay for police. Should we have migrants just start their own vigilante groups, because they haven't yet payed for taxes?

 

the fact is that illegal immigrations does take the type of jobs those with no training can do. labouring, janitorial, etc, etc, and both drives down wages and increases competition.

 

The US does have many many jobs to fill. More jobs then people.

Unemplyments very low, and the people who are unemployed either don't want it, are unable to find something at their level of expertise, or are in a geographical situation where there aren't any jobs.

As a whole their are more then enough jobs to justify increasing the amounts of legal immigration.

Controlling deflating prices is simply a matter of raising minimum wage.

 

The important point you raise by avoiding it is you either
don't understand
or
don't agree
w/the Concept of laws/ rules/ regulations.

Inquiring Minds want to Know which...


Oh did I mention your inability/unwillingness to discuss one point at a time.
If I didn't I saved bandwidth by not bringing up a hopeless topic, eh? *L*

 

wow dont even get me started. fuck, y'all dont even know. cali & texas has more goddamn illegals than the rest of the states PUT TOGETHER. you see a town made up of like 80% all illegal immigrants & its TRASH. they turn the u.s into mexico. if y'all came to lodi for a day you would think you were in fucken mexico. as i said dont get me started. i dont give a shit what the rest of you are going to say to this because you dont have to live with it everyday. not that the white people here are any better, its just because they think theyre mexican

 

This is a rediculous statement Lodui. I agree with much of what you say, but here I definitely do not. You know what fences, locks, and alarms are for? Merely to keep the honest people being honest. Nothing more.

There are people that could sneak across just like the illegals but pursue a legal means instead. There are also those who are denied a visa, and do not come here at all. The ones who choose to come here illegally show a blatant disregard for US law. Period.

Who cares if US companies are advertising jobs on Latin/Mexican radio stations. Does it say, "Can't get a visa? That's ok, we'll hire you anyway"? I'm willing to guess it does not. Sure it can be argued that these comapnies are aiming towards legal and illegal immigrants alike, but that's no different than your friend encouraging you to steal. No matter who tells you to do it, it's illegal. I can't get away with breaking the law, and neither should they.

 

overly simplified again, spence. economically, immigration is good on two levels - the first is bringing capital to the country. the second is filling job niches with shortages (which can range from typical such as nurses/doctors/etc or the other big gap which is labour in a booming economy).

unfortunately, illegal immigration for the most part can only fill one role - labour. in areas where there is a shortage, this becomes fine (in that they are still contributing to the economy). however, in the us, it tends to be extremely concentrated in certain areas - essentially outsourcing localized labour jobs to mexico. it costs america significantly.

there is no easy solution. i tend to doubt whether amnesty should be applied, myself.