I would die for you, hippies.

I care, because I care about all life forms, whether or not they are rational or without the cognitive ability to make their own decisions. All life is valuable.

 

Everyone's lives are valuable, and i am with the non violence thing... but that is MY choice, and i am aware that not everyone chooses to live the way i do. I am not quite sure if this means someone is good or bad... That is to say that i think that people can be soliders and still be good people, even those who may have killed.

If anything, i think we would all agree that killing your own species is pretty unnatural at best. When people decide to go into a war and kill people for money, that seems like a weird concept to be so popular. It sounds wrong... so sometimes people are torn between this natural feeling to feel disgusted by unnecessary death, and then the reality (i suppose) of the situation: that we have many people who live amoung us that have chosen this way of life. That is really the major dividing factor of this war and of veitnam. People were drafted then...they had a much more complicated decision: get shipped off, or move out of the country....
The people in iraq are there because they choose to be. Whether or not that has to do with the huge econonmic gap between the now 'haves' and 'have-nots,' i dont know...
Its a complicated world, and a complex situation, but maybe we could break it down in a tolerant and simple way; We all make these choices. Our choices CAN make us good or bad, but they will ALWAYS make us different. And being different doesn't mean that you are bad.

Hope i am still sounding coherent, but that was what just kind of came out.

 

The people in Iraq are there because most were born there and that is their homeland. The gap between the haves and the have nots hasn't been solved by American intervention. Shalabi was given money and advances by those in Washington. He wears imported suits and how can he ever related to the basic people of Iraq. The Americans chose to intercede. Not the Iraqis. You are greatly confused.

The only difference the draft made with the conflict in Vietnam was there were people forced to fight in that conflict that could look at it objectively. And ask the big questions, with this conflict as all voluntary, there are few that will come forward and question the validity of the conflict.

 

I am also confused on why war is a solution. if we strike them, they will strike back...and then we will strike again./ there is no pointy! i am glad i joined this site because i have poeple here that agree with me...i have 4 cousins in the military and the rest of my family supports it...i am the only one that doesn't i am the peace loving odd-ball

 

Mike-
You are right. War is never the solution. It is, however, a reality. One that mankind (unless they undergo radical changes) will never escape. People don't see how you and I and others think: war leads to escalation. You're right, one thing leads to another, leads to another. The best we can do is to do what we can at home. Not supporting the war for one. Talk to people about it, open honest dialogues.

But support your troops. I don't want to see another Vietnam, where the dead soldiers lives are devalued because we didn't appreciate their roles in the war. Supporting the troops and supporting the war are two different things. You will also find more ways to help espouse the anti-war mentality, as you will reach even more people. People would be impressed with your effort to support the truth that they will talk about the war with you. You can correct them about where you stand (no doubt they will assume you are pro-war), and take the opportunity to open eyes. It is possible to do this.

This also makes you more rounded and compassionate. You see both sides of the story and are able to make a full and proper judgement and are able to back it up.

 

Gardener, you are confused, i was speaking on OUR COUNTRY when i said the "haves" and "have nots" as saying that is why people are enlisting--- because our own economy has separated people on a larger scale...perhaps i did not articulate that clearly, sorry. As far as the iraqis are concerned, of course i feel terrible for the people who have been effected by our govenments constant need to play cops and robbers with the world. To me, that is the major injustice. These people and children are innocent to these things that we claim are "terroristic."

You know, hippyho, i dont understand why people THINK war is a solution either...i mean, everytime we do someting like this, there is an inevitable backlash and everything changes... People are crazy to THINK they are coming up with any kind of solution by going to war.... maybe that is the ENTIRE problem...the mindset.
But WE DO have to support the troops because they are not the war and they are not the government. And no one wants another veitnam.

But, gardener, i agree with waht you said, the troops in veitnam could look more objectively at what was happening, because they had NO choice. That is a part of the scary reality. I suppose it depends on your reasoning...but then again, that is scary too: a) if you join because you want money, that is scary because it means that you can be bought...
b) you join because you really believe in the cause, well, that is scary too, because your cause is a lie.
Again, its this THING-- where do we draw the line? I am not meaning to sound contradictory or like i am dissing the troops, but its something to think about.

its hard to imagine why someone would choose to enlist and be a part of something so unpopular and destructive...well, its WAR. I just suppose it is something i will never understand and that my efforts at it are futile. But something within me thinks that maybe the people (or at least some) really want to HELP people, but have gotten confused along the way.

But what do i know anyway?

 

They enlist because they have been sold the lie of the the turbanned enemy. And if those of us that think alike don't stand and say, what you are selling is a crock, they will continue to sell out our youth. And today it's not popular to stand against the administration, but it needs to be done. Even if it's not popular.

 

I agree that we MUST take a stand. Its terrible. Especially now that violence has erupted in the middle east, and now its looking like an all out war. Our government had better tread lightly on the new issues, or we will have to riot like crazy.

And in todays society, it is almost immpossible to be heard by the government...they just stomp us little guys!

 

Well lets hope he dont get blown away huh?
It shouldnt leave you confused.
He believes he is fighting for that
His leaders know he is fighting for resources - exactly what is anyone doing to curb your feedom of speech? How can he be fighting to save freedom of speech when no-one is or has been in a position to prevent your freedom of speech - except for your own government?

 

well it doesn't matter what it should or shouldn't do. That is what it did.

It has nothing to do with my freedom of speech or yours or the next guys. I am in control of how i choose to speak my mind and what i choose to do. It was the distance between our views and yet the shared closeness. It is a matter of opinion, i suppose.

I believe it left me confused because it put a face on this thing from our side. Not that i didn't already support the troops, because i did. But it made it more real, more harsh, more fake, more.... whatever. It brought something close to me that i had tried to push away.

Until recently, i didnt even watch the news or read the paper anymore... in fact, i rememeber the day that i stopped. It was the day the first american had been captured by insurgents and beheaded on camera in a most gruesome way and then was broadcast over the internet for people to watch...that was it for me. I broke down in tears, and i couldn't believe how cruel people were. i associated that with the war, and i wanted nothing to do with it. I wanted no part or knowledge of it. i would hear little things, or catch clips on tv. But i did not, for 3 years, deliberately watch any news program having to do with any war in any country.

The government is not something i trust or buy into, but some do. Some feel safety in it. Some want to help provide others with that safety they feel. Some do not know that it is a lie. Some feel they can change the lie into something positive for others--- ultimately, it doesnt matter who is right and who is wrong.

I let life play out...i had a conversation. I let it in. It confused me, it enlightened me, and it helped me evolve...

Life happens.



Peace and love

 

The best way anyone can support our troops is to insist when they return broken, that they have access to full VA medical support and receive a full GI bill, both of those items are being gutted by congress in order to try balance the budget or mitigate the huge deficits created by this conflict. I have heard stories of returning wounded soldiers being charged for missing helmets and arms, when they were blown up by roadside bombs. But our government took the cost of those items out of their last paychecks. Want to support the troops and veterans, fight for the rights that mean the most to their lives when they return home.

Look at how the Desert Storm troops were treated by our government, they were told they weren't really sick, while their children were born with defects, and they were unable to deal with ordinary life when they returned. Washington saved some bucks at the expense of these "brave warriors". I use that term because Washington has chosen to use it. If you really want to support them learn all you can about veteran benefits, and make sure they aren't cut anymore than they already have been.

Read this article if you really support our troops, this is where they need the most help and support.

http://www.seattleweekly.com/news/0315/news-anderson.php

 

Here's something that may open your eyes as to how much this administration really values these young lives.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/13/AR2005101302166.html

Want to know why this has happened? Because many facets of the military have been privatized. It's now Carlyle and Haliburton that control the Quartermaster Corps, or even payroll. I am not sure on the payroll issue I haven't been able to find any solid proof of that, but I have my suspicisions.

It's been discussed by all the think tanks. And probably acted on by the Administration without transparency to the American public. Thus these agencies are only operating on return of investment.

http://www.issues.org/14.2/pages.htm

 

Strange that these young veterans are being dunned by collection agencies when this has gone on.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1522983,00.html

 

gardener, you are absolutely correct! This is one of the biggest injustices by our government. Its terrible to think that when people do come home (and thats assuming they are alive) that they are not taken care of--- what the hell?
I think that the haliburton and other like entities need to be forced to their knees. I think its terrible the Mega Corp. that is going on in america today, and they are perhaps the worst offenders.

But what do you do?? Companies like haliburton could eat people like us for breakfast! How do you seek justice in such a place as america when you are taking on america itself??????????


peace and love

 

The only real thing you can to is inform your friends and family of what is happening and hope when it's become public knowledge that those we elected to congress will be so shamed that they will finally do something about it. As it is most of the American public are unware that these shameful practices are going on.

 

Yes, this is true. It is hard for people to accept truth, though. Hell, its even hard for me accept some truths in my own life. People dont want to know the truth, if you ask me. Some do, but others do not. Its a sad thing.

I tell people as much as i can. A lot of people try and shut me down, i just try and reason with them until they can no longer deny the truth.

This is a kind of off point thing, but i believe a little relivant. For instance, if i am out somewhere, or at a party, hell, even at my own home, and i have been drinking or smoking down, i get loose and start to talk. usually the conversation will take a governmental turn, and sooner or later we are engaged in a conversation about politics or something related to that field. Once the conversation goes there, my boyfriend will step in and day things like "people dont want to talk politics, they want to relax and have a good time"
I usually respond by saying, "well, cant ANYONE have an educated discussion as adults on what is relivant to the lives we live anymore?????"
Sometimes his comment is enough to totally let the conversation fall flat, other times people continue to talk with me. But the thing is, maybe he is right, or maybe not. Its hard to tell when people are taking a conversation as simply that... I like varying opinions, i like to talk to people who think differently than me, and get into their brains. Is that invasive or intrusive? Is it taking away their relaxation time???????

these things confuse me...is it me????????