Relationships.....someone enlighten me please!!!

Hey! I already answered that question! Gimme your toes!!!!!

 

I said 100% effort, not 100% acheivement, there is a difference. Everyone is imperfect and makes mistakes and thats fine, and if you discuss it then the person who made the mistake will realise and not do it again, while you wont be hurt because you will know it was a mistake. I was talking about a serious relationship, although we now know the question wasnt really about a serious relationship. Surely the point of any relationship as that is becomes a serious relationship, so the priniple still applies.

Which is why you have to talk about it

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Surely we all want a happy healthy relationship and I was trying to explain how to do it. To assume that most people will only ever have unhappy relationships as you seem to be doing is very defeatist.

I'm not interested in an unhappy or unhealthy relationship so I would never have a relationship with anyone who I couldnt be 100% honest with, and know they were doing the same. As a result I spend a lot of time single, but the relationships I've had have been near-perfect and well worth the wait.

By talking through the reasons behind your behaviour with someone else, you can actually come to better understand your own behaviour.

I would call that level of understanding 'Love'. Sometimes you have it from day one, sometimes it takes years to develop, but Love and understanding are almost the same thing.

There is no need to overcome any behaviour patterns, just to understand them. Never try to change your partner.

You seem to be arguing against yourself here!

You get that bit more understanding by communication. If your partner really doesnt want to communicate honestly I dont think there is any point in a relationship with them because it will all end in tears. If on the other hand they do want to, but just find it difficult, then thats no problem, it will become easier with time.

 

Yup, but even 100% effort isn't possible for most people. 100% implies perfection.

Are you serious? I mean I applaud the noble sentiment 'n' all, but the real world just doesn't work this way. The 'mistakes' you refer to are most likely ingrained behaviour patterns, and the chance of not repeating them just because they've been talked about is slim to none.

Not defeatist at all, simply an observation of reality. I know hundreds of people, and I could probably pick about 5 couples who are in anything approaching a happy and healthy relationship with openness, honesty, and a real future.

Of course we all want happy and healthy relationships, but your suggestions are based upon idealism, not practical reality.

Then you're missing the point to a large extent. Relationships that hurt us and cause us pain, that aren't always filled with honesty, are often the ones from which we learn the most. Relationships don't have to be perfect in order to be rewarding. If I'd practiced this philosophy throughout my life, I'd have missed out on some serious learning experiences, and I've no doubt that I wouldn't be in my current (perfect) relationship.

I'm not disputing this. Unfortunately, this again requires an openness and an understanding of the self that most people simply don't possess.

So what you're saying is that anyone who is in a relationship that doesn't conform to this ideal is not, in fact, in love?

What the fuck?!? I've never heard such a load of facile pseudo-hippy crap! Of course you should change your partner! Change is growth! People grow together in relationships! That's a very large part of the fucking point! If your partner has behaviour patterns which are negative, then you help them overcome them!

You really haven't had many relationships, have you? Life is all about tears! It's part of growth! Of course relationships will often end in tears, and there's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean you won't have had some good times and learned something valuable along the way.

You're being overly idealistic again. This is simply not the way most relationships work in the real world. Just because someone wants to communicate, it doesn't mean they will find themselves able to. Not only can emotions get in the way, but communication is an art form. Expressing yourself to someone else in a way which they will understand is not always so easy, and quite often two people who are trying to communicate with each other will end up arguing instead. This is the way of imperfection, and the reason we're all still bloody well incarnate!

 

No, I've not had many relationships, however I have had one immensely sucessful long term relationship which I ended myself for reasons I wont go into, I'll never know if it was the right choice. I've also had a few failures and a lot of tears to learn from. A few failures are good to learn from, but more than a few is too much baggage. I dont think I want nother bad relationship to learn from, I would rather wait now for someone I can have a good relationship with, one that will last for the rest of my life.

I think it is good to be idealistic. I will probably never truly attain the ideals that I aim for, but I think the higher you aim, the more likely you are to get close to your ideals. If you only ever try for a reasonably good relationship, thats probably all you're going to get. Maybe I'll get that perfect relationship I'm aiming for. On the other hand, I might aim too high, never find it and end up with nothing... Its a risk I'll take for now, if a few years pass and I'm still single, I guess I'll have to lower my standards!

 

For yourself, possibly. But you were suggesting that others should set standards for themselves which for most will be unobtainable.

 

heh, worry about it later if you can mate, you might not have the later to worry about and live in a constant honeymoon period, you never know!!

 

Same thing applies - if you aim high you're more likely to achieve!

I could be wrong, but its what I believe very strongly, and I have achieved some amazing things with that attitude, and sometimes failed too.

Chris 'The best thing about advice is... you don't have to take it ' mission

 

Just out of interest Dok, would you consider me in that category?

 

That's only half the story. If you aim unrealistically, you're more likely to fail.

Fucking hell, I've only met yer new bird once! Gimme a chance to get to know her and see you together some more before you expect me to cast the bones of prophecy....... The honeymoon period is hardly the time to make that call!

 

LOL!! You were the one who told me we were in love!

 

Very true.

The idea that I might end up being single and lonely for most of my life terrifies me, but the possibility of missing out on meeting the girl of my dreams while I'm in a second-best relationship also terrifies me. At the moment, the second scenario terrifies me a bit more than the first, hence my strategy! You've certainly given me some things to think about though.

 

Yay, thanx monkey again! Thats a better way to think about it....by not really thinking about it at all, haha!

I think it's to do with the whole communication thing, sometimes it's important to say exactly how you feel, but then other times (i think definately in my case) it's just so much better not to say too much at all! I just like knowing where i stand, and that i am liked in SOME way, otherwise what would be the point of anything, like the whole effort thing?!

x x x x x

 

But while you're holding out for the perfect relationship, you may very well be missing out on some really good times, and also missing out on the lessons that you have to learn from other relationships.

Also, to go back to the example I used earlier.... my current partner is someone who I honestly believe I'll be with for the rest of my life. She feels the same, and after six and a half years I think that we know each other well enough for this to be a realistic hope. Now my last girlfriend was a nightmare. That relationships was hellish. But I know for a certainty that the lessons I learned in that relationship prepared me for my current relationship. My current relationship may not have lasted if I'd been the same person that I was before I learned those lessons. So by holding out and waiting, I might have been avoiding the learning that I needed in order to make the perfect relationship work.

So look at it this way. Rather than missing out on your perfect partner because you're in another relationship, how would you feel if you stayed single, found your perfect partner, and then that relationship failed because you still had lessons to learn about yourself and didn't have enough experience to make the relationship work?

How will you recognise the perfect person for you? A few years ago, my perception of who was perfect for me was different to what it is now. Through experience, change and growth, you'll come to better appreciate the qualities that will make for a healthy and happy relationship. And again, this experience, change and growth is part of the self-development that occurs when you're in any relationship.

I'm not saying you shouldn't set your standards high (indeed I've always been fussy myself, and stayed single for extended periods rather than just jumping into bed with someone for the sake of it). But you also need to be realistic, and not set the bar so high that you're missing out on life.

 

Indeed. I don't remember saying anything about you staying in love though!

 

heh, there's nothing wrong with a few one night stands if you're single, you never know where they might lead!

 

Heh, don't worry, we will!

 

*shrug* Never found them particularly satisfying personally.

 

Maybe you've set your standards too high!!

 

I've told you once and I'll keep telling you...... I'm not going to fuck you even if you pay me!!!!!

 

I'm confident that I do have the experience thank you, and I don't really think its relevant anyway, if you find the right person then its only necessary to be yourself - learnt 'relationship skills' are only necessary to make the best of a bad job!

I don't have any problem recognising when a girl is right for me, and that is not something you learn,its something you UNLEARN, you have to ignore your logical thought patterns and go on instinct. Amazingly, if you do that, the feeling almost always seems to be mutual! I don't believe that a person's essential spirit will ever change and thats all the matters in a deep relationship, I get wiser, but will never change because that would not be true to myself.

On the contrary, I'm quite happy to jump into bed and have had several fuck buddies and casual relationships, so long as you are honest and tell the other person you are still actively looking for miss right and they are happy with it, theres no problem in that.

The thing is, I have found true love and near perfection in a relationship before, so anything less would be an anticlimax now and I would never be happy. You talk like someone who has never experienced true love and doesn't realise what he is missing out on.