Inspiring quotes from hinduism and other sources

From 'Beelzebub's Tales To His Grandson'

Those beings are so named there who became initiates thanks to their conscious labours and intentional sufferings and they acquire in themselves objective merits which can be sensed by all other beings, irrespective of brain system, and which also evoke in others trust and respect. In the other sense of this word ‘initiate’ those beings call each other by this name who belong to what are called there, ‘criminal gangs’ which in the said period have greatly multiplied there, and whose members have as their chief aim to ‘steal’ from those around them only ‘essence values’. Under the pretence of following ‘supernatural’ or ‘mystic sciences’ these criminal gangs there are really occupied, and very successfully, with this kind of plunder. And so, any and every genuine member of such a gang there is called an initiate.

Gurdjieff.

 

Having made this statement, did Gurdjieff offer any further insights or actually define truth?

 

It is something that has to be experienced. It cannot be expressed in words adequately.

But here's another longer piece by Gurdjieff, one that perhaps gives some idea of Gurdjieff's idea on how truth can be found or approached.

“Freedom leads to freedom. Those are the first words of truth. You do not know what truth is because you do not know what freedom is. All the ‘truth’ that you know today is only truth in quotation marks. There is another truth but it is not theoretical; it cannot be expressed in words. Only those who have realized it in themselves can understand that truth.

Now I will give you a detailed explanation of those words I have spoken. It rests on the following basis. The freedom I speak about is the freedom that is the goal of all schools, all religions, of all times. And in truth, I tell you that this freedom can be a very great one. Everyone wishes for it: but it can never be attained without the first kind of freedom that I will call the Lesser Freedom. The Greater Freedom is the liberation of ourselves from all influences acting outside ourselves. The Lesser Freedom is the liberation of ourselves from all influences acting within ourselves. For a start – for you who are beginners – the Lesser Freedom is a very big one indeed, as it is not subject to your dependence upon outside influences.

You have to understand that so long as you are the slave of inside influences you cannot come under the action of outside influences. This is perhaps even a good thing, so long as you have no inner freedom. You must understand that the man who is freed from inside influences begins to fall under the play of outside influences.

Inner influences, that produce in you inner slavery, come from many independent sources. That is to say, there is a great heap of independent factors that cause man to be inwardly a slave. These influences are different for different people. In one case one influence is strongest, and in another case another. But in every one without exception there are so many factors of slavery that, if you had to struggle with each one you would need such a long time that half a lifetime would not be enough.

Therefore we must find such a means or method of working as will enable us to destroy simultaneously as many as possible of the enemies within us from which flow these influences that produce slavery.

As I have said, there are many such independent enemies: but two of the chiefest are Vanity and Self-Love. In one doctrine, these are even called the chief ambassadors of the devil. It may be added, by the way, that for some reason they are called Madame Vanity and Monsieur Self-Love. I have quoted merely two of these inner enemies as characteristic, because it would lead too far to mention them all now.

We have so many slaves within us – each of these slaves wishes to be free, but it is difficult for each slave to work directly and straightforwardly. It is especially difficult for our slaves to contend with these enemies, because none of our slaves has enough time. At one moment one slave is present : at another moment it is another slave, and to contend with these enemies requires a great deal of time. In the upshot, it has to be done indirectly in order that we can get rid of several of the enemies simultaneously.

For this, we have to understand how these enemies work and from where they get their power. You must know that these representatives of the devil stand all the time on the threshold and deny entry to all outside influences – both good and bad. Accordingly, they have both good and bad sides. If anyone wishes to limit the entry of outside influences, it is well for him that these sentinels exist. But if, for some reason or other, anyone wishes that every kind of outside influence should enter him, then he must free himself from these two sentinels. Only it is necessary to understand once and for all that it is impossible to select the influence one wishes. For example, it is impossible to select only good influences. The sentinels are only undesirable for those whose real aim is freedom. Those who have this aim must strive by every means in their power to liberate themselves first of all from these two enemies – vanity and self-love.

 

Cont.


To do this there are a heap of methods and many different means. But I, Gurdjieff, would personally advise you to get rid of them, without subtilizing, by merely reasoning simply and actively with yourself.

This is possible by active mentation: and I must warn you that if you fail, or find it impossible by this means, then some other means must be found, because there is no hope of going further until some of those enemies have been eradicated.

For instance, self-love or false pride takes up half of our time and half of our life. If anyone or anything outside us should hurt our pride, we are injured, not only for the time being, but for a long time afterwards. And that wounded feeling, acting by inertia, closes the portal and so shuts out life.

I live! Life is outside. I am alive so long as I am connected with the outside. If life only exists inside me, this is no life at all. When I ‘behold myself’ I find that I am linked up with the outside world. Everything lives after this wise and cannot exist without this linkage.

One experience fades away and hardly has time to do so when another takes its place. Our machine is so built that it has not various places in it in which different experiences can subsist at one and the same time. In us, there is one place where experiences can be, and if that place is occupied by experiences of one kind that are undesirable, there can be no question of its being occupied with experiences of another kind which may be desirable. You have to grasp and realize as a fact that your experiences cannot lead to any kind of achievement or liberation unless you have lived through them. You must have experiences – even more perhaps than you can possibly imagine, both pleasant and unpleasant – but you must not let them make slaves of you. On the contrary, you must use them in order to prepare a place in which you can be free.

We do not own ourselves and do not posses real pride of self. Pride of Self is a big thing. As much as we must blame pride as it is ordinarily understood, so much do we need that Real Pride which unhappily does not exist in us.

Pride of Self is the sign of being in possession of oneself. If a man has Self-Pride it proves that he is. But as I said in the beginning, Self-Pride is also the Devil’s representative. Self-Pride is the chief enemy, the chief obstacle to all our achievements. Pride is the main tool and representative of hell. Pride is also one attribute of the soul. By Pride it is possible to discern the spirit. Pride of Self is the indicator and proof that such a one is part of Heaven. Pride of Self is ‘I’. ‘I’ is God. Consequently it is needful to have pride. Pride is hell. Pride is heaven. These two, both bearing the same name, externally both of the same substance, are wholly different and opposite. No one by merely superficial examination – even if he continues a whole lifetime – will ever succeed to discern one from the other.

There is a saying ‘Those who have Pride are already half-free’. And if we take those who are sitting round here, each one has so much pride that he has more than enough to spare. This is a paradox. We are full to the brim with pride and yet we have not the slightest freedom for ourselves. The aim must be to have Pride. If we attain to have pride we shall thereby be made free from many of the foes who are installed in us. We may even free ourselves from the main ones – Madame Vanity and Monsieur Self Love.

If you wish for Freedom – even the Lesser Freedom – you must be ready to pay a big price.

Sometimes people complain to me that they cannot do the tasks I give them. What do they expect? It is enough if you see the possibility of doing them – the rest depends upon the strength of your own wish to be free. At present you cannot do, because you are not free.

You must understand that you cannot begin with freedom – freedom is the goal, the aim. People say God created man free. That is a great misunderstanding. Freedom cannot be given to anyone – even by our all-loving Creator Himself. God has given to man the biggest thing He can – that is the possibility to become free. The desire for freedom exists in every man worthy of the name – but people are stupid and think they can have outward freedom without inner freedom. All our evil comes from this stupidity. Unless we desire, first of all, to be free from our own inner enemies, we shall only go from bad to worse.

Therefore everyone must examine himself and try to find in himself a sincere wish to be free from the forces of vanity and self-love acting in him. That inner slavery is the worst degradation for man, it is the hell in which man allows himself to exist. The sincere wish to be free from that degradation is the beginning of real pride.


Lecture given by Gurdjieff , Institute for the Harmonious Development of Man, c.1923.

 

Depends on who reads it.

 

'He who has ears to hear, let him hear'.

 

God made all things.
There is only God.

When you know this,
Desire melts away.

Clinging to nothing,
You become still.

-Ashtavakra Gita 11:2

 

"Wisdom is, and starts with, the humility to accept the fact that you don't have all the right answers, and the courage to learn to ask the right questions." -Unknown

 

Lord Shiva is my refuge: he who grants
Freedom from the cycle of birth and death.
Lord Shiva is my refuge: he who gave
The sacred scriptures at the dawn of time.
Lord Shiva is my refuge: he who is
The source of purity and perfection.
Lord Shiva is my refuge: he who is
The bridge from death to immortality.
Lord Shiva is my refuge: he whose grace
Has made me long for his lotus feet.

-Shvetashvatara Upanishad

 

Though you guard it well, what destiny does not decree disappears.
Though you cast it aside, what fate calls yours will not depart.

-Tirukkural 38: 376-377

 

So you didn't see that message:

in there:
"By reason of the characteristics of man’s being, particularly of the contemporary being, truth can only come to people in the form of a lie – only in this form are they able to accept it; only in this form are they able to digest and assimilate it. "
as well?

The funny thing is, at the time of his giving this talk, G.I.Gurdjieff was a "contemporary being".

What makes you think he was telling the truth as he spoke, especially considering his proclaimed thoughts on presenting things in a truthful manner?

B.S.
Piled Higher and Deeper.
Lies as an Operating System for Truth.
4 8 15....

 

I don't see what he had to gain from not speaking the truth. Also, it is a question of a respect built up over many years in the case of Gurdjieff, that is, from my own personal level. Also the fact that his works stand as some of the most interesting produced in the last century.

Anyway, it seems to me, based upon my own experience, that G was right on this matter, as indeed on many other things. Since different paths say different and often contradictory things, they can't all be speaking the truth.


By 'contemporary being' Gurdjueff means those brought up under modern 'culture', a fate he himself was lucky enough to escape.

 

Hymn, "Be Thou My Vision"

Be Thou my Vision, O Lord of my heart;
Naught be all else to me, save what Thou art:
Thou my best thought, by day or by night;
Waking or sleeping, Thy presence my light.


-Hymn, "Be Thou My Vision"



Ephesians 5:1-20

Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. But fornication and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is fitting among saints. Let there be no filthiness, nor silly talk, nor levity, which are not fitting; but instead let there be thanksgiving.

Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for it is because of these things that the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

Therefore do not associate with them, for once you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and try to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. For it is a shame even to speak of the things that they do in secret; but when anything is exposed by the light it becomes visible, for anything that becomes visible is light. Therefore it is said, "Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give you light."

Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of the time, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but be filled with the Spirit, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with all your heart, always and for everything giving thanks in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God the Father.

 

Perhaps he thinks this is the only way to convey the truth:

Who among us has not been raised by contemporary culture? If you take his statement to be true, than we cannot accept, digest, or assimilate it.

He's a dork Bill, plain and simple, caught in the trap of his own wit. (Now, is this statement from God about me, or is it from me about G? Whichever it is, I am happy.)

Well, I have respect for you as well, but...... I wouldn't usually accept a statement from you as correct or true just because of who it came from.

Lol. This guy in the library is saying (prompted by God, no doubt) "Caught me in lies and all that, it's lousy here!" talking to his computer...

Recommend some?

Of course you have to know the truth to realise what is true or not. That's what I love about it.

There is more than one lie.

 

K - I have no interest in arguing about Gurdjieff.

This is something I have found extremely valuable - I wouldn't expect others to necessarily.
This thread is supoposedly for posting quotes from inspiring sources. I am sorry if you don't find Gurdjieff pleasing...it's easy to please..... It is perhas a mistake on my part to post such material here at all. Better to keep to simple stuff which requires little explanation. If you want to know about Gurdjieff, or formulate a serious opinion on his work, I suggest you read it in its entirety.
It would be agreat mistake to base a judgement on only very partial knowledge.

 

Pardon me. I was playing.

I found it so as well, but in a different way.

We should say whatever comes to mind, friend.

I do. Just in a different way. Perhaps in a less direct way than you do.

Not at all. It has truly inspired us to enliven the thread.

Explanation from a source other than the author is speculation. Little speculation.. now that would be interesting.

I dabble. Dilettante of all trades.

Maybe. It depends on what context a statement includes. If a statement is about a wide group...

Perhaps I am too exact in my interpretation of semantics (and syntax)? If I allow more play in the definitions of words, his statements could be interpreted as correct.

Anyway, if you would like, I will no longer write in this thread (for now), except to quote the words of another.

 

Dear K - you are free to write here whatever you see fit.

The problem with posting stuff from Gurdjieff is that to fully explain why he makes some statements would require too much explanation.
If my brief posts here have served to whet anyone's appetite, well and good.

 

I'm sorry K - I didn't pick up on this in my earlier post.
Gurdjieff spoke mainly Armenian, Turko-Tartar, and Russian. He actually disliked some features of the English language, which he thought lacked in terms precise enough to express certain subtle ideas. (German he disliked even more) For example, the word 'love' is used in English to cover a very wide variety of meanings.
Also, in his masterwork 'Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson', he deliberately chose to use what is described as 'uncouth syntax', as well as many neologisms.
He wrote in Armenian and Russian mainly, and spoke the lecture I quoted in full in Turkish. However, he did speak English quite fluently, and had translations of 'Beelzebub' and his other works read aloud to both himself and groups in English, so he approved the translations.
My advice would be to go with the most positive meaning you can derive from G's words. It is interesting that after having the first draft of 'Beelzebub' read to selected groups, he decided to re-write the entire work from scratch - saying his intent was 'to bury the dog deeper'. He was challenged on that - 'Surely you mean bury the bone deeper?' But G insisted 'No - bury the dog deeper'.

So there you have it - BBB displays his own 'idiocy'. Having said 'I don't want to discuss Gurdjieff here' he discourses upon that very topic. Thus proving that he is , indeed, Gurdjieff's famous 'zig-zag idiot'.
What kind of idiot are you?

But K - Maybe I have misread you. It seems to me that you are the sort of being to whom G might have some appeal. It seems you thrive on 'paradox and contradiction' - to some extent G was master of this. See his words on pride in my previous post - I seem to detect there some 'similarity of attitude' with certain ideas you have expressed here over time. Maybe I'm mistaken - but my inner feeling tells me I'm not ..............

Love,

BBB.

 

Though you speak unkind words to a man's face,
Do not speak words behind his back heedless of consequent harm.

Though every word is full of kindly virtue,
A man's mean back-biting will betray his empty heart.

If a man spreads tales of others' faults,
His own worst faults will be exposed and spread.

-Tirukkural 19: 184-186

 

"May it please the Beloved that we never fail to love each other, because if we do we are lost. If we succeed in loving each other, I tell you we will attain union with him. Never cease striving for this. Maybe you have had some gratifying experiences that have awakened some devotion in your heart so that you believe you have reached this state. Maybe in the Prayer of Quiet you achieved moments of sweet suspension. People often assume that this means they have reached their goal. But believe me, if you are not loving your neighbor you have not attained union."
-St. Teresa of Avila