Why are self-confident women written off as bitches by most men?

.

 

Never mind off topic...

 

"Each morning when I awake, I experience again a supreme pleasure - that of being Twiz Flinker."

 

Anyway, we have had some weird posts, so here's one that is on-topic: I asked my mother, who considers herself a feminist, if she thought it was true that self-confident women are considered "bitches." She is by any definition successful and earns much more than the average man. She told me she disagreed with this. I then asked her if other women who are successful and make a lot of money at work are considered bitches, and she answered "no." It was clear that this made no sense to her (which supports my view that this is not a legitimate grievance).

This reaffirmed and validated my belief that many women who post most vociferously about women's issues over the internet do not represent all women -- and interestingly these women often move in tandem ideologically. Many of the hard-working stay at home moms and corporate executive women are too busy to get into these debates, so the people posting are a selected minority who are hyper-political.

I then asked her if men and women differ in intelligence, and she answered "bullshit." I chose not to go any further on that one! According to her, men think women are inferior because women are the ones who have babies (I have no clue where that one came from). She pointed out that women in corporations often do the work that their bosses are compensated for. They are not promoted due to cronyism, to paraphrase her.

 

Because self-confident women are often arrogant and/or too proud of being self-confident women, and are therefore bitches, and are called such. Same thing with men, but instead of being bitches, they are assholes.

 

Thank you for some true perspective on this subject Anarchist. I get the impression people who have the experience to answer this question right, which is an opinion about the self, rather than so many posters giving their opinions of others attitudes and actions, are the kind of people that should take the time to help others on newsgroups. And in a way, thanks to you, she did take the time to help people who want to learn. I noticed on another newsgroup a tendency to be misguided and run in tandem with both males and females against a single poster who differed with the majority opinion. Also a male and female teamed up frequently, usually the male going first.

peace
Honor

 

Honor Seed. This is NOT the Random Thoughts Forum STOP the silly Off Topic threads, now. Either address the subject or do not post.

Cosider this an Official Warning.

Maggie

Super Moderator

 

Please excuse me for mentioning that girls work in tandem against me online.



peace and Happy Memorial Day

Honor Seed

 

"Self-confident women written off as bitches" seems vague to me. Reflecting on this thread, I also overreacted a bit to the opening poster due to a distinct impression of mine of bias against men. She is very intelligent, and she may be able to use that in socially positive ways in her future.

To recap:

(1) We need to put more self-confident women as corporate executives. The fact that so many CEOs are overpaid while lower-level employees are getting laid off or are getting benefits cut demonstrates that the market for CEOs is artificially restricted to a "good ol' boy's network." We need to free up the market for CEOs and other executives by giving women more opportunities. An increased supply of labor should help decrease the price for it. This is one way we can work to resolve executive overcompensation.

(2) We need to give confident, successful women more opportunities in politics. However, since women are (roughly) 50% of the voters, it seems there is as much bias against women leading a country by women as men. Women could theoretically bloc vote a woman to the presidency. Then again, becoming president requires good press coverage by a media run by men, and sponsors and donors who are mostly male (which goes back to point 1). So women have many obstacles in this regard.

Since more women are in college than men, and the gap appears to be widening, anyone claiming women in college are discriminated against would appear to have a larger burden of proof for such a claim than for one that is contrary to it.

 

Nah, I don't think so, it is not because of some sort of collective prejudice or something of that sort you want to propose here... there are male professors who do discriminate against women, just like there are female professors who do discriminate against men, just as there are male/female professors who discriminate against asians, Indians... so it happens in this country but we are evolving, you may discuss to support against this notion, but the truth of the matter is that we as a society are still evolving and we have not completely reached that point of "freedom" for all individuals with out discrimination due to race and gender. You may have not seen discrimination/prejudice, but that does not mean it does not happen.

Thank you.

 

wow! that gets a double insightful from me! and i swore to myself (that i'd leave this place forever! lol). but your wise words deserve to be praised. way honest and truthful! and truth is all (IMO).

jenny

ps. just pretend i was never here, huh? pretty please? lol.

 

It's slightly comical for me to read through this thread and see practically NO WOMEN responding whatsoever.

I guess this is an example that shows that we live in a patriarchal society where men dominate EVERYTHING. Or try to, anyway. The plight of women can only be known by a woman or a MAN that has STUDIED it.

 

Maybe it's because men like flame fests more than women?

Ah crap...now the generalization police are gonna get me.

 

Double standards are alive and well in university and the workplace. It's not right, but that is the way it is. Yours is not the first generation of woman to scream about it. Who's being condescending and rude? I am not. And I am not a bitch so please refrain from labeling me as such. Thank you. Resorting to name calling gets us nowhere.

The reality is that in 25 years from now it will not matter what Prof. so and so thought or said as you will have a great life and the prof. will be an unpleasant (if you even remember the idiot) blip. EVERY university has idiot profs. Fact of life in the 70's, fact of life in '06. Is it right? No. But it is reality. So you do what you have to do to pass the class--it is rare to change somebody's opinion of something. It does happen, but rarely. Being at the other end of my college education I do understand the link between grades and financial aid, btw. Make sure a letter is submitted to whomever documenting the double standard. Word of mouth is powerful also. Advise students to avoid the prof's classes if possible.

 

ummmm, excuse me? but i have never called another woman a bitch. so please don't twist my words around, and take on such a condescending and self-righteous tone. thank you. i was merely stating how ironic it was that you left me the comment i quoted above (talking about the importance of respect, tone of voice, and not having a condescending attitude), and how necessary that is if a woman wants to be considered self-confident. and not "bitchy." yet your comment is quite flippant and condescending. so you contradicted yourself. even your last comment flippantly mentions women "screaming" about double standards. perhaps you need to choose your words a bit more wisely, if you don't want to be so misunderstood? in other words: don't just talk the talk. but learn to walk the walk? make any sense?

jenny

 

it is a bit comical and sad, huh? but so are the times we are living in. i see nothing but apathy. in politics. in the classroom. in the real world. so i am no longer astonished by any of it. very disappointed. but not astonished.

jenny

 

i like (and appreciate) your honesty much. i think there is some truth in what you just said. so you won't get any criticism from me. lol.

much peace and love,

jenny

 

oh, and i've also discovered the safest bet is to preface a general statement with the word "some." lol. i actually tried to change the title of this heated thread (from "most" men. to "some" men). but the title remained the same. oh well. live and learn, huh? lol.

jenny

 

Hey DancerAnnie:

There's a thread which bashes "most males" and you are surprised that men are responding? You then claim that men cannot understand the "plight" of women, as if the men who post here don't have mothers, sisters, aunts, and close female friends and significant others. You appear to come off as somewhat chauvinistic and with that proverbial chip on the shoulder.

This is precisely what's wrong with many of our colleges: rather than teaching young people math, science, and other useful things with more rigor -- things which would, in practice, bring equality by strengthening the minds of young people, since education is an equalizer -- young people are being (mis)directed to courses that teach them to nurse feelings of injustice.

I don't think any eminent female scholar will ever emerge with a "women's studies" degree. If I had a daughter, I'd steer her clear of that, and get her into math, science, engineering, or anything else more suited to her that will help her develop her mind.

If you want to compete in a man's world, you have got to beat men at their game, rather than complain that you have not set the rules. I don't for a second believe women should be home pumping babies out, and I wouldn't want my daughter thinking that way either. If she wants to be president, great, but thinking she's a victim won't get her there.

I am all for overthrowing the patriarchy, whatever the hell that means.

 

That was actually Antoni Gaudi who you're thinking of... they both have similar names. And yes, there is a dream-like quality to the architecture of Gaudi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gaudi