Are we forced into eternal life for the pleasure of God with no chance of release? Are the doctrines of "eternal damnation" and/or "eternal reincarnation until you get it right" basically the same thing- a message of eternal life that you cannot escape- either embrace it or be in pain? Sorry God, you're eternal, but that doesn't justify your forcing of other beings to live through pain until they "get it right". You must fall on your knees before us and beg forgiveness for all you have done. Perhaps then there can be peace.
"The Son of God born as the Son of man Has drunk the bitter cup, owned Godhead's debt, The debt the Eternal owes to the fallen kind His will has bound to death and struggling life That yearns in vain for rest and endless peace. Now is the debt paid, wiped off the original score. The Eternal suffers in a human form, He has signed salvation's testament with his blood: He has opened the doors of his undying peace. The Deity compensates the creature's claim, The Creator bears the law of pain and death; A retribution smites the incarnate God. " Sri Aurobindo in 'Savitri'.
Also K - the concepts of eternal damnation and reincarnation are hardly equivalent. In the Hindu concept of reincarnation in general, it's inevitable that eventually realization and liberation from the cycle will come.
That's what the cat said. So this guy walks into a bar, completely naked, with a duck on his head. The bartender says "There's something different about you today Carl." The duck says "I've had this thing up my khara the whole day!"
Yeah. The concept of eternal damnation (destruction) just sounds so cool. Makes me think of an awesome metal video, with lots of fire, demons, machines, and hot chicks. Reincarnation just reminds me of this Jenna Jameson video called "Need for Speed" in which she makes out with these 2 other really hot girls.... lol, like I always say "Here comes the fucking liberation and realization again."
Strange kind of humour. And if K were completely off the rails with this, then so too was Sri Aurobindo, who obviously had the same idea of the pain etc imposed by the Divine on all created beings.It is impossible to see otherwise why he wrote the section of 'Savitri' I quoted. Where K is living a fantasy is in imagining that hell would be like a metal video. That's all just conditioning by modern so-called culture.
It would be kind of amusing if that's what Hell was though...and in some ways, Metal music is torture for some (I know its a bit to loud and harsh for me! lol)
Ha - well I'm no heavy metal kid I can assure you. But just to be absolutely clear - I've come across the idea on these forums and elsewhere that "all the cool people will be in hell' etc etc. This is a case of doublethink in my opinion. If it's full of 'cool people' (hate the inappropriate nature of 'cool' here ) then it isn't hell. Hell means unmitigated and hopeless suffering. There won't be anything cool about it at all. That said, I'd better add that I do think hellish worlds or planes exist. However, I don't think it's eternal. Nor does it resemble the productions of the Gothic imagination.
There are detailed descriptions of various hells and who goes to them in Srimad-bhagavatam. None of the hells are eternal, though they are very unpleasant and do not include rock music and hot babes. There are also descriptions of hells in Buddhist scripture, correct?
My Guru likens hell to a washing machine, in which the clothes are thrashed about and covered in hot water, etc. But in the end they come out clean and pure.
Yes we all have our hells don't we, actually according to Indian films Yamaraja has to boil you in vegetable oil.
There are indeed. But as far as I know, they're generally thought of as temporary. Actually though, I recall reading somewhere in a piece by Allen Ginsberg that a guru told him if he didn't take care, he could end up in the 'Diamond Hell' - which evidently is thought of as eternal.
So Indian movies are that specific...I guess they would be since the Hindu scriptural depictions of hell are much more detailed than the Bible. There have been many American movies, usually comedies, with loose and brief depictions of Christian heaven; very few with literal hell...it's usually alluded to. Bill...SP said that the term of the average soul in material existence is so long that it might as well be eternal, and this can include periods in hells as well as heavens.
Nonetheless there's always a possibility of liberation. At least from the human form or higher. In the Bible, there is very little mention actually of Hell. In the middle ages vast demonologies were created - some of this comes through in the art of the period, esp. medieval churches. Another great depicter of Hell was Heironomous Bosch. But the best Christian description of Hell is Dante's 'Inferno'. At least, it's very imaginative - and rather nasty in places. There are unforgetable things like 'the abominable sand' and 'the lake of boiling pitch' - His Purgatory is not much more attractive in terms of the lot of its denizens, but at least they know they're eventually getting out. Dante was IMHO one of the world's greatest poets. Over the entrance to Hell are inscribed the words 'Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter' - and that's the thing with Dante's hell -it is eternal, and there is no hope. In an allegorical sense, that's why it is Hell. The souls in Purgatory suffer just as much at one level, but they retain hope. From the perspective of Hindu philosophy in general, there is always hope. As you say, Hell may last a long time, the cycle of death and re-birth may go on for millenia, but eventually the soul gets out, and must eventually return to God. Madhva is the only Indian philosopher I know of who taught any possibility of eternal damnation.
somehow i feel that most of the ideas today spread by religion are more focused on controlling people with fear. its just sad. One guru said that Vishnu can be angry and he carries his mace to teach us a lesson if we do something wrong...I think thats just ridiculous, we shouldn't fear God.
It's oursleves really we have to fear - the consequences of our own actions. If one has a clear conscience (assuming one has a conscience at all) there's no reason to fear God.
