A true disciple of Jesus rejects him.

As I have said in another post I reject Jesus as 'The Savior', for his sake and my own. But another reason for rejecting Jesus is that I love my fellow man. It is written "Love thy neighbor as you love yourself". Therefore I reject Jesus, for I can not accept the torment of my neighbor. No...I would rather go to Hell with my neighbor on the off chance that I might one day redeem us both, even if I am told by God himself that there is no chance.

So when you Christians are in Heaven celebrating your victory over your many, many enemies...I hope it doesn't bother you too much to know that you have a true friend down there in the flames.

 

God is indeed free.

 

Well, I guess you understand all this better than Jesus does. You must be pretty smart.

 

I am a fool compared to God, but that's not the point. Or, maybe it is.

I doubt that anyone who remains Christian despite the fact that it is the wrong thing to do will care whether I burn for eternity or not. All they care about is getting to Heaven; what happens to everybody else is not their concern, for they are not their brother's keeper.

And by 'Christian' I mean one who accepts the blood of Christ for the remission of sins. There may be some denominations that speak nothing of sin; I'm not sure.

 

Dude, you're thinking too hard. Just be nice to people. LOL

 

You miss the point that Jesus was God and man - and also, it's all done and accomplished long ago. Whatever you accept or reject makes no difference on that level. You can't prevent Christ's suffering on the cross.

 

No victory over my enemies, but the victory is over the parts of myself that are an enemy to my enlightenment and true happiness.

I think i have to read your post again. I don't think you make any sense but I am honestly going to try harder.

 

ok now I understand. But it appears that you don't love your neighbor nor do you love yourself.

Love is when you want what is best for someone. You are going to have to work pretty hard to explain to me how ETERNAL seperation from truth knowledge and understanding is good for anyone.

To throw away the only valuable things in this existence, because others do not value them, to not want to share these things with anyone who seeks them? I can't understand how this could be considered love.

 

lol Yeah I know. I enjoy thinking too hard. It's fun for me. "Just be nice to people" -- if only there were a church that left it at that.

I asked this question in the other post, but if Jesus was God then why did he ask "Why hast thou forsaken me?" He must have known the answer if he was God, and he must also have known he was forsaken. So why did he ask the question and why was he forsaken?

Anyway, what does that have to do with the fact that it's immoral to accept Jesus if anyone who doesn't is going to Hell? If you're your brother's keeper, how can you just sit happily in Heaven while he's damned for eternity?

As for it happening long ago...that makes no difference: God is omniscient. God must have known before the crucifixion that I would not accept the offer or God can't be omniscient. Now, if everyone were like me...there would be no purpose in the crucifixion, as no one could be saved by Jesus' death. So if you can only be redeemed by accepting Christ as having died for your sins, then he died only for the sins of those who accept him.

 

That's the conundrum, isn't it? What is valuable? Love, forgiveness, self-sacrifice for the welfare of others. By accepting the damnnation of my fellow man I am saying that love is not for all; forgiveness is not for all; sacrifice for some, but not all. The Christian wants me to love only the Christian and say, literally, "To Hell with the rest of you."

 

Catch 22

 

but love is for all, the true christian says to hell with no one.

Jesus ate with sinners, theives, homo's and all the rest. Why cuz he loved them all man I mean a friendly kind of love.

I can love you and not have to do what you do or go where you go.

 

And Christ is the true Christian. Therefore he can't condemn anyone to Hell, whether they believe in him or not.

lol Well I didn't think you meant that he had sex with them.

You can't love me and condemn me to eternal damnnation, though. Hypothetically I join the damned in hope (even if that hope is futile) of comforting them. If it is true that one has to accept Christ in order to be saved then I am unjustly condemned, for I follow the message of Christ.

So do you not think that one has to believe in Jesus in order to be saved? If not, what point is there in the Christian religion? Why not just say as Jesus believed if you believe it: We are God; the spirit of God dwells within us all. Treat each other kindly, for what you do unto others you do unto yourself.

The reason is that the Church doesn't believe in the philosophy of Jesus. They have to set him up as a vengeful God in order to keep their phony institution alive. They don't believe his message is convincing enough.

 

Dude, believe Jesus is your Lord and savior. Be nice to people. LOL You sound like you're confusing yourself brother.

 

Why believe? It's either not necessary in order to be saved or I am damned. If I am damned I can't believe he's my savior, because I'm not saved.

This is not that complicated! lol

 

Well according to Christianity. Which I THINK you are a member of. Not trying to judge you I just didn't understand everything you wrote. LOL If you accept Jesus as your Lord and savior and be nice to people that's most of the ball game. I remember when I did hallucinogens. HOO WEE. LOL

 

Because He was God and man, not just God.

I am not an orthodox Christian - I don't believe in eternal damnation. I think those who fail to develop to the required level will simply perish.

You may yet change yor mind. You are not omniscient, and cannot forsee the future. Thus might a 'christian' answer. I say that God can't forsee exactly what will happen in the cosmos. Still, I believe in Christ.

 

No I am not a Christian. I don't accept Jesus as my lord and savior, but I am nice to people. I'm not on drugs, by the way. I don't have any money.

How are we to know which things he said were the words of God and which were the words of a man, then? You're saying that Jesus the man cried out, "Why hast thou forsaken me?" -- if he was God he must have known the answer before the question was asked, so again, why ask the question? Are you saying that Jesus lapsed between being the all-knowing God and the foolish man? If you're saying that, then perhaps Jesus was only the foolish man when he claimed to be God.

So you believe in eternal life for all? If so, how can those who fail to develop to 'the required level' ever simply perish? If not then don't we all simply perish? If the required level for existing is being like Jesus, isn't it most like Jesus to sacrifice yourself in an attempt to save those who would perish by being like those who would perish?

A God that doesn't know the future is not God. The present is in God's control: How is it then that the future is out of his control? How can God not know the future if he is omniscient?

 

No - I didn't say I believe in eternal life for all. I said those who fail to reach the required level will perish - ie. for them there will be only extinction. There is nothing in them which could be immortal.

I don't say God is omniscient in the sense that he knows the future of the universe in every detail. To imagine He does seems a rather superstitious notion to me.

 

Is it required that you believe Jesus died for your sins in order to reach this level you speak of?

You can define God however you want, of course. To imagine that God even exists seems a rather superstitious notion to some people, so obviously something seeming superstitious to a person doesn't make it untrue. I don't believe you can be all-knowing unless you know everything. You are basically saying that the past and future do not exist.

None of this has anything to do with the original thread, though, which only pertained to those who believe that you will be damned if you don't believe in Christ.