Intelligent people do not believe in god(s) or practise a religion

Your really mean sometimes.

 

Not really.

Just straight forward.

 

It is an oddly disguised form of Fundamentalism itself to insist that an "Invisible Sky Daddy" (existent or not) is the only possibility anyone can allow themselves to imagine when they experience, or think of, or speak of God.

What if God, or whatever it is that those who are obviously less intelligent than you are discussing when THEY speak of God, what if, somehow, all of this is more than just what your thoughts allow you to believe? What if God is something other than just what you think?

If you really believe your thoughts actually define existence, then I would love to hear you explain (and thereby ensure the continued existence of) gravity, meaning, time, metabolism, consciousness, the unified field theory, the Big Bang, Mysticism, creativity, etc. I am certain I have forgotten something or another that belongs on this list, but I hope you will feel free to speculate.

Peace and Love

 

In other words, why should I believe any image of God that you deny?

Peace and Love

 

You would be more correct if you said "From a rational standpoint, I do not have the experiences necessary to lead me to believe in God at this point in my life."

 

Anybody who thinks God is invisible isn't very perceptive.

 

This is from Hawking.org and has to do with hidden variable theories that Einstein held because of his belief:

"Einstein was very unhappy about this apparent randomness in nature. His views were summed up in his famous phrase, 'God does not play dice'. He seemed to have felt that the uncertainty was only provisional: but that there was an underlying reality, in which particles would have well defined positions and speeds, and would evolve according to deterministic laws, in the spirit of Laplace. This reality might be known to God, but the quantum nature of light would prevent us seeing it, except through a glass darkly.

"Einstein's view was what would now be called, a hidden variable theory. Hidden variable theories might seem to be the most obvious way to incorporate the Uncertainty Principle into physics. They form the basis of the mental picture of the universe, held by many scientists, and almost all philosophers of science. But these hidden variable theories are wrong. The British physicist, John Bell, who died recently, devised an experimental test that would distinguish hidden variable theories. When the experiment was carried out carefully, the results were inconsistent with hidden variables. Thus it seems that even God is bound by the Uncertainty Principle, and can not know both the position, and the speed, of a particle. So God does play dice with the universe. All the evidence points to him being an inveterate gambler, who throws the dice on every possible occasion"

And no, we haven't determined that Einstien must have been a moron.

 

nice peacefulwind, That's cool and as you said it doesn't mean Einstien was a moron. It also does not change the fact that even intelligent people believe in a higher being. but nice article for the debate.

 

I totally agree.

 

What if? What if? What if? No answers. A bunch of "unexplained", "it-could-be-something" jargon.

Varuna, you know better.

You know I am speaking of the monotheistic christo/islamo/judeo "beyond-the-sky daddy". That fairytale "father" that sits above the clouds and commands heads.

I am surprised that you actually believe I would try to buy into this?

You, as good as anyone here, know that using an appeal to the "unknown" to prove your wish that there is "something out there" is a lost cause, because there is no viable reason to even consider it with you and others using "lack of evidence" as "evidence". Please.

Here's a "what if" for you. WHAT IF I know, guess or don't know and don't guess the answers to your questions? So what?

I may have my theories, but it's much better to say some things are yet to be fully explained than to push our ignorance back one step and attempt to explain these mysteries by adding yet another mystery (god) to the equation. An unproven and unreasonable addition at that.

There is ZERO evidence of sky daddies. ZERO. NADA. NONE!

If there is, prove it. Lay it all out on the line. WHY should we believe an invisible, immaterial, intangible "being" "created" all this? WHY?

Mysteries and subjective "in my heart" answers need not respond because that is NOT objective evidence of an objective "god".

 

I think that any beleif that a bunch of random things had any chance at ever occuring in such an intricate way that was written about by one man in one book and has less physical proof than the Adventures Of Tom Sawyer has of being a completely true story, not to mention the guy who origionally wrote about it didn't even beleive it before he died, (I am speaking of evolution, so you know, but it also applies to the big bang theory) is crackpot to the 10th degree! Evolution has no more psysical or scientific evidence than God, but it is so widely accepted because it looks scientific on the surface, and it provides an easy out of accepting there is a higher being.

Now as far as einstein goes, he discovered the theory of relativity by trying to prove that the universe had no beggining, (he was an athiest for a while) thus proving big bang right and poving there is no God. Through his studies, he found the universe HAD to have a beggining! That is why any real scientist doesn't believe in the Big Bang theory! The theory of relativity has been proven to be about 99.002% positively right, which is about as high as anything partaining to science will get so there is no doubt by any scientific mind relativity is TRUE. Einstein never, at least openly, spoke about beleif in any specific God, but knew there was something bigger out there than him you or me.

 

bird is tricking you all again. coming here, posting something that is opposite of his other posts, and stirring up some trouble. then he leaves and doesnt post again! haha

 

That is rather tricky...

 

Oh poo, not this again. To get it out of the way, Darwin did indeed believe in the theory he developed. That death bed confession/conversion to Christianity story is a bunch of bull cooked up by some nutty creationists to try and discredit Darwin. Why would they do this you ask? For lack of any good argument of their own either for creationism or against evolution is why.

Less evidence for evolution than for Tom Sawyer being real you say? Ya know, that's kind of like saying that there is less evidence for the existence of Australia than there is for Atlantis. It is simply a non-sensical statement with no basis in fact or reason. It almost doesn't deserve a responce. The reason that evolution looks scientific is that it IS scientific. I'm not going to try and explain it here, why, because it would take volume after volume etc. Here is a link the the national academy of sciences evolution page. They explain it much better than I could anyway. http://nationalacademies.org/evolution/

 

My belife in Evolution stops at the micro level. However Jumob Don't for get about this little qoute by Darwin.

"To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus for different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree".

Perhaps thats what Rayne was thinking of?

 

___________Doube post are poopy__________

 

You are quoting TYPICAL CHRISTIAN JARGON which shows that :

A) You have no real idea about the theory of evolution
B) You have no real idea about the Big Bang theory

So, until you come back with a real argument and not the same old rehash that I and Hikky and others have CRUSHED so many times before, I have no other response than: RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH.

There is legitimate evidence backing evolution and ZERO, ZERO, ZERO evidence backing any sky daddy.

If you truly want to debate this, I'll be more than happy to oblige, but just promise that you won't take everything I say as a personal insult because I vehemently defend my position using evidence and reason, not "I felt it in my heart". And I will challenge your belief system with the same mercy they had on my ancestor atheists and heathens.

 

Sure man, I have no problem debating it with you. I also didn't take it as a perosnal insult, and I don't mean anything that way anyway. I feel that letting things result in personal attacks gets way off subject and accomplishes nothing, so I think we are on the same page there. I myself am an avid debater, but I hate arguements. I am willing to listen to your side, if you give me the same credit.

"So, until you come back with a real argument and not the same old rehash that I and Hikky and others have CRUSHED so many times before" Did you "crush" it in this thread, because I didn't read it. Not saying you DIDN'T because I haven't read all the posts or anything. Also could you cite a few examples of evolution's scientific research? Everything I am aware of was found to be false for one reason or another... For example the ape Lucy's had supposed body parts that were found several yards form each other, and other bones were around it as well, so there isn't proof that alll those body parts really belonged to that one ape. I haven't done any studying on evolution recently, so I am a little rusty on the details, but it will probably all come back to me, and I will probably have to wind up looking in my old high-school science books.

 

Ok, let's begin.

The whole universe and our existence is a "mystery", right? So, how do you perceive it all happened.

Let's go back to what you all like to refer to as "The Beginning".

Give me your short synopsis on how things happened.

 

Okay, I beleive that the universe and earth were created by an infinite God. Created out of nothing, or "ex nihlo" (I think is the right words/spelling). Then everything was destroyed, via the flood, and after that, MICRO evolution happened, and is still happening but not by chance or time, but by differant species mating and creating new species (A poodle and a cocker spaniel make a cock-a-poo... We have a dog who is half alaskan malamute, half wolf, etc.).