My Thoughts on Amsterdam

I just came back from a trip to Amsterdam and thought I would write down my thoughts before I forgot crucial details.

I was looking forward to getting high and getting all that I can out of the city for a few days. I got stoned for 3 days: 2 days off of some bud called "amnesia" (highly recommended if you want to get stoned) and 1 day off of a cookie with a half gram of hash. I highly recommend Hill Street Blues in Nieumarkt (somewhere just east of the Red Light District, a walking distance).

One major problem I have noticed with the city is its immigration problem, which more recently has just been getting corrected. On 2 occasions I was hassled by a homeless man (both immigrants) begging for money from me in a McDonald's. Never in the U.S. have I seen anything like that, so brazen. I was so upset with one of them that I told him he should get a job if he doesn't want to go hungry. People all over the world would dream to be in a rich country like the Netherlands, and yet a few who do have the luck to be in the country unfortunately choose to live like leeches. Amsterdam shows why countries should practice selective immigration: you need to make sure those you allow to enter as guests can be productive for your society. Immigration can be a good thing if you do it right.

I found Conscious Dreams, recommended on this site, while walking around the Red Light District, accidentally. I talked to the dude working behind the counter and he sold me 42 grams of shrooms packed into a chocolate bar. Well, I suppose I have a super-high tolerance because that didn't do much for me. The weed and hash from Hill Street Blues is a different story: it knocked me out.

After a while I got sick of the stench of marijuana wafting out of the coffeeshops, and I vowed I would no longer do that anymore. To be honest all it did was give me a slight headache and make me feel a bit light-headed. Weed is an overrated drug. Not that it should be illegal, it's just overrated. I also had bad feelings about the whole "culture of weed": the way the drug seems to attract the lowest (and often criminal) elements of any society looking for a symbol of rebellion. Weed in itself is a harmless plant, like virtually all plants of nature, but people use it to appear like badasses with the leaf on their caps, shirts, etc.

I found it laughable that the "gangsta" culture has taken root in the Netherlands. The Black boys in the Netherlands are trying to ape their cousins in the U.S., but they do not seem to be as tough. They wear their caps to the side, and walk like caricatures of the gangsta culture, but there is an obvious fakery to the whole act.

I have been to Amsterdam twice and I probably won't be going there again. What I learned is that no matter what country you are in people are more or less the same.

I did not find the Dutch to be particularly cultured or even superior to Americans. Like Americans, they have their own deep-seated issues to work out. That the Dutch speak Dutch and English fluently is not so much a mark of a superior culture as the need to adapt to a more globalized world, as a relatively small nation, in which English is the lingua franca.

 

sounds like you'd fit right in.

what makes you think the homeless men were immigrants?

 

No offense but what makes you think that 2-3 days in Amsterdam can give you any idea of what the city is like.


1. How did you know the homeless were immigrants?? Did you ask for their visa's passport etc.. Was it because they spoke English or were white? How can you be so certain these homeless guys were immigrants? Never seen something so brazen as a homeless person begging for money?? What country have you been living in? Ive seen less homeless people in this city then i have in every city i have lived in the states. So based on 2 homeless guys you feel qualified to comment on Dutch immigration policies??

2. Then Dutch kids and gangsta culture,i notice your attacks are pointed at the black kids, but it doesnt surprise me since there seems to be a alot of prejudice in this post. Its fashion,kids dress like they want, if their clothing means they are trying to be "gangsta" then i take it all the people wearing the army and camo fashions are trying to be "Soldier" but you spent 3 whole days! so again your quite qualified to comment on the youth,how they dress and how tough they look.

3. and finally the great conclusion that Dutch arent culturally superior well i beg to differ

1. Well of all the people who need to adapt to a globalized world Americans are the ones who need it the most, rarely do i meet anyone from the states who can speak more than one language so if the people from this country need adapt when are Americans going to?So if cultural adaptation is based on a nations size why arent more people learning Chinese?

2. This culture isnt involved with bullshit materialisim which dominates most Americans thinking.

3. Then theres health ,how many overweight Dutch people did you meet? ill tell you in my time here i havent met many, so in terms of health and eating habits i would say they beat us hands now.

4. Less advertisement

5. and yes tolerence, dont see many religous nuts here trying to impede on the freedoms of people who dont believe in their way of life.



in conclusion most of this post appears to be a lovely bit of overgeneralization with racist undertones based on a 3 day visit.

 

"Never in the U.S. have I seen anything like that, so brazen"

Go to any large city in America and you will certainly run into homeless beggars (many are Viet Nam vets), con men (Hey mon, pick the king, one in three, it so easy!), people selling fake Rolexes, people walking around in a stupor (I mean mental cases, not high), so what you encountered in Amsterdam is no different than any city of that size. And they can be quite brazen about it in the USA, too.

Gangsta culture has taken roots in the white suburbs of good ole USA too. Go to any mall and you don't have to look far to see some white boyeez.

I don't think the Dutch are claiming to be a 'superior culture' by any means. The people I have met never held their noses in the air because I was an American.

You spent three days getting high? Getting high is not really seeing Amsterdam in all of its glory. Give it another chance. Next time, stay away from the coffee shops and the seedy hoods. Walk around to other parts of town. Take a train to some other cities or villages in Holland. Meet some people Trust me, its a great place.

Better luck next time, aye.

 

Im not sure i should be amused or offended when you pretend to know all about our culture while you spent 3 days being high and only in the capital.

 

Obviously my post struck some cultural sensitivities. I will address some common responses, but before that I'd like to give some thoughts. My impression of Europeans is that they feel they are culturally superior to Americans. In a way it's justified because Europeans have a more extensive history than Americans, but often it turns into snobbishness from uncultured Europeans riding on the coattails of European history. I have seen it from my own family in Europe, as well as from various Europeans, who while having less formal education than an American will assume that being European automatically makes them more sophisticated or cultured. My experience in Amsterdam showed that people from different cultures are more alike than different. Also, I get the feeling that Europeans like to receive flattery from Americans, and anything less is intolerable (like my first post).

I have been to the Netherlands twice, for a total of about 2 weeks. I only spent 3 days in my more recent trip smoking some weed, and even then it was at night, after I had observed the people all during the day. Smoking weed however has nothing to do with it: it's a lame personal attack because my post appears to have wounded the pride of some people.

A couple of people asked how I knew the homeless beggars were immigrants. Well, they did not look like indigenous Europeans. This means they are likely first or second generation immigrants. In either case these are individuals not taking advantage of the opportunities in the country.

I don't believe 2 weeks in the capital of the Netherlands makes me an expert on the culture, but having observed the people it gives me the right to make some basic observations about the Dutch people.

To add more fuel to these flames, I must add that I was very unimpressed by the appearance of Dutch women compared to the appearance of women of other nationalities. Dutch women struck me as very plain. Normally people associate blondeness with attractiveness, but too many Dutch women don't take care of themselves as much as they could or don't have healthy skin.

And yes, having lived in America almost my whole life (I have lived in Europe as well), I have never in America been approached by 2 homeless men within 15 minutes in a fast-food restaurant. I think this is an important point because some European nationalists like to portray America as poverty-stricken (especially with what happened in New Orleans), while minimizing the povery in Europe.

 

I have a photo album full of pics from all over the city. If you had bothered to read some of my other posts you'd know I have seen much of the city, not just the Red Light District.

I purposely choose hotels away from the tourist spots. I spent plenty of time observing Dutch families with their kids on my last trip.

What are we even arguing about? Let's try to break this conversation down without sarcasm or egotism, OK? Perhaps then we can become enlightened.

 

Thanks for giving a thoughtful reply instead of personal attacks. I wasn't attacking you and if it appeared that way, it wasn't my intention. And it is good to see that you spent the day seeing other parts of the area and the nights at the coffee shops, which is part of the point I was trying to make. I was given the impression from your OP that you spent the whole time there in a daze.

There are a few things that I will disagree with you about. One is that you will be hit on by beggars in a big city. If you are ever in CHicago, walk from Union Station to downtown and you will be hit by at least 10 people looking for some handouts.

I never encountered a 'superior attitude' from most of the people I met. Not to say that it doesn't exist. This also may just be a cultural difference and the gives the impression to Americans that the Dutch are presenting themselves as superior. Who knows, really.

And as far as the Dutch women go, I think the reason they may appear 'plain' is that fair skin doesn't present itself as well as tanned or dark skin. I found many of them to be quite attractive, though, And I think they age well, too.

 

hey anarchist, whether I or anybody on this board agree(s) with or disagree(s) with your post, I certainly appreciate your feedback on YOUR experience and YOUR impression of YOUR trip. In actuality there are things in your post that I agree with and disagree with.

That being said, I am not bashing you or arguing against your post but I would like to interject with one tidbit in reference to your statement I quoted above.

2 Weeks in Amsterdam wouldn't give anybody the "right" to make some basic observations about the Dutch people. I say this because Amsterdam is a tourist and immigrant community. The dutch living their are not NECESSARILY an accurate representation of "the Dutch people". Have you traveled to any cities in the Netherlands besides Amsterdam? Just something to keep in mind! Kinda like Parisians being different than the French from the wine country area...

 

I realize my post was provocative, and one reason why it was provocative is because it seems to me hippies only have positive things to say about Amsterdam. I am not aware of any discussions of the way women are abused (psychologically and physically) by pimps in the RLD. I rarely hear about the uncultured cretins who are often found in the coffeeshops.

While stoned on hash I developed second thoughts about the drug culture. But to be objective I had to recognize that drugs themselves are not the problem, it's the way people use them that's the problem. No one could seriously put down Aldous Huxley for his experiments with mescaline.

It's not just about Black boys trying to act as hard as they can, despite their pampered existence in a wealthy Northern European city. I feel the same way about the unfortunate White kid with ridiculous tattoos on his scalp. Never will he be able to be taken seriously by thinking people. There is a lot of hideousness in the city, unfortunately, but due to the notion of "tolerance" and cultural relativity we all too often become oblivious to this.

There is that sense within me that to be human is to strive for nobility, to be able to distinguish beauty from ugliness, even when it is hard to define.

I realize, too, that foreigners can be victims of hideous forms of racism. My post was meant to express my frustrations with a few unfortunate souls who do not take advantage of the opportunities available to them (there are hundreds of people who die each year just to try entering Europe or one of the colonies in North Africa). It also upsets me that foreigners are disproportionately featured within the crime statistics. From talking to a Dutch girl to my own experience walking out late at night, I would say that Amsterdam is a prime example of a European city with immigration problems.

To reiterate, I support immigration and believe it can be positive. However, Amsterdam is a case where immigration policies seem to have turned out real bad.

 

Well you didn't acknowledge my last post, but that won't stop me
As for this one above, it does indeed seem more like what fueled your fire. The problem is that your original post uses broad statements and sweeping generalizations, smiting communities of people at a time.......when it should have just focused on this post above!

BTW: you can find plenty of negative things about the city and the dutch culture that have been acknowledged on this board, so when you say that you were dissappointed by Amsterdam because it wasn't the hippy dilusion you've read about..........I must reply that you didn't read enough! Not to mention that thinking an entire city with nearly 1 million people living in it is a place thats 100% positive just because you haven't read of any negatives is a bit................(fill in unflattering word of your choice, I am not trying to bash or offend)

Cheers to ya pal,
Koopa

 

Maybe. I just felt like giving general thoughts. Nothing mechanical. Actually, what motivated my first post was a bunch of different thoughts put together.

I was not disappointed by Amsterdam, nor was I deluded about the city. I get the feeling this is going to go around and around. My impression of the city just happened to change a little from what I saw and observed. As I wrote, I had already been there before.

The last part of what you wrote was childish, so I have snipped it and will not address it. Anyway, it's the nature of the internet for people to fight over nothing, so I might just take a break and let this thread grow or become stunted in its own way.

This is a matter of taste, and where taste is involved, you will have a million and one opinions with no resolution.

 

I didn't say you were.......YOU SAID the hippies only have positive things to say. I was referring to the Hippies you speak of as being deluded. But you did say you have been there before so I apologize for my confusion about the disappointment issue. Then again, after the way you bashed Amsterdam who in there right mind would say you weren't disappointed?

If the city just changed a little, you knew what it was all about to start with. And considering how negative your posted take on Amsterdam is I wonder why you went back a second time......

Once again, we are not fighting. I wrote (fill in your own word) because I didn't want to be childish and call ya names). Assuming any city has no negatives is ignorant........whether or not hippies do it or you do it or I do it:::::it is ignorant. But I didn't mean to offend you and I apologize if I did.

I actually provided a disclaimer in my first response saying I appreciate your take on it and am not bashing nor arguing. Why do people post there opinions in public places and then get leary when the public responds to it? I mean I appreciate that its YOUR opinion and you may have no interest in changing it or hearing otherwise from anybody else about it. But that is just more reason to keep it to yourself, not to post it on a public messageboard.

 

I understand, Koopa, that my posts can be irritating to some because of their negativity, while many of the contributors of this forum are big fans of Amsterdam and are planning to take a trip there soon. But at the same time it's healthy to write about what you think. And while I may appear like I am inflexible, you have to understand that I approached the city, just like drugs, with an open mind.

I disagree with the conservative tendency to theorize and argue from theory. There are millions of conservatives out there who have formed negative opinions about drugs and who have little or no experience with them. Because of their limited or lack of experience, they believe what is written about drugs. But what is written about drugs is not necessarily true, just like what is written about a war by those promoting it may be untrue. So I approached Amsterdam with the attitude of doing as many drugs as I possibly could, while still getting something out of the city other than the drugs. I wanted a taste of the counterculture, of what millions of conservatives are opposed to. I believe someone who tastes the counterculture and rejects it is far more credible than someone who rejects the counterculture because the idea of the counterculture simply does not appeal to his ideological tendencies (I have neither wholly embraced nor rejected the counterculture).

Under other circumstances my trip could have been better. I do not regret my second trip though, because there were some places I did not see on my first trip that I wanted to see. I did not take the trip with the intention of just having mindless fun, but also to relax and reflect about life, which is sometimes easier to do on certain drugs.

 

Hey man I think thats incredibly open minded and cool of you! Just keep in mind that the most "insight" you gained into that counterculture was a "tourists view" at best, not to mention a tourists view of the COMMERCIALIZED drug culture. But seriously, I respect what you wrote in your last post alot friend!

Cheers,
Koopa

 

gangsta culture is everywhere in the "great white world" why would amsterdam be diffirent? you see shitloads of "wanabe ganstas" in states i believe they will become normal citizen later on.

anarchist are you saying first time you took drugs was in amsterdam? i must have misunderstood.

U.S.As reputation has gone down surprisingly by some genious president bush loaning money from everyone just after clinton got them payed.

 

I just wanted to add that this thread was positive for me because I made some irritable posts and yet a couple of members showed some humility and ethics. One of the things I like about this forum is that it attracts people with a mindset different from mainstream society. If I were to have posted such contrarian views on another Web site, with the same degree of irritation, I likely would have been flamed mercilessly.

During my trip to Amsterdam I had a negative experience while consuming some hash. I dwelled on some negative thoughts, which can happen when you are dealing with drugs. I then brought some of the negative energy onto this forum.

I also brought some politics into the forum, which isn't necessarily off-topic, but I have tried as much as possible to de-politicize myself (which I have been increasingly successful at).

Additionally, I made some rude comments about Dutch women. I hope I have not offended any Dutch women. There's nothing wrong with them. In fact I wouldn't mind marrying one.

 

So whatcha say myrtje? Wanna marry the dude? LOL If I were a Dutch woman after reading what you said earlier I'd tell you to go fu** yourself, however, I'm not, but I think you'll be single for a while.

Peace out,
islandgurl

Thought for the day... Why do they make dog water purifiers when they lick their asses?

 

That's OK, you're not my type.

 

One more comment....... going back to seeing gangstas in Holland. Were there hippies in Amsterdam in the 60s and early 70s? Were they viewed in the same way that gangstas are viewed today, that is, as someone trying to cop Amercian culture? Did the hippie movement begin in the USA? If not, disregard this post.

And why are people trying to be hippies in 2006?