French Riots + Labor law

No, it went to mass, man-made starvation, mass murder, slave labour on a huge scale (ever heard of gulags?) and tyranny. Soviet economics was a disaster. Ever heard of the Berlin Wall? Here's a quiz - was it designed to keep west germans from moving to eastern germany to enjoy the socialist utopia? No, it was a prison wall. The Soviet Union was a prison.

Having short term memory problems? I already pointed out how moronic this is. The Soviet Union faced problems? Wow, imagine that. How unique. I wonder if I can think of another country in the world that faced problems, so we could compare. Gosh I just can't think of any. LAME.

Argentina didn't go from state planning to capitalist. You have no clue what the hell you are talking about.

You arguments are lazy and pathetic. I have gone over this before. Nobody every claimed capitalism creates rising wages due to benevolence or brotherly love. Adam Smith figured that out like two centuries ago. It creates rising wages because economies develop and productivity rises. "The workers demand"? You are so naive. Wages increased all across the economy, unionised and non-unionised. Have you noticed that people don't do the same jobs that they used to do? Like moving from agriculture to light manufacturing to heavy manufacturing to services and technology? The workers weren't demanding to be web designers instead of cotton pickers. Economies develop, workforces become more skilled, and wages rise. Whether its Taiwan or Switzerland, its been the same. You really have to be desperate to try to claim that it is somehow a mistake that capitalist countries get prosperous and another "coincidental" mistake that communism always fails. Some coincidence.

Pile on that bullshit. Capitalism is about maximising profits? Well no fucking kidding. Whoever said it wasn't? As I said, Adam Smith figures this out centuries ago, you're a bit late with the newsflash. Yes, low skill, low tech industry moves to cheaper countries. We cannot do everything, so we do what we're best at. Taiwan isn't doing what they did 20 years ago either, they've moved up the food chain too. Economies develop. Will you figure that out in your lifetime?

 

I guess yolu think the blockaid after the Russian revolution was Lenin's falt.

Just because your parinoid doesn't mean people are not out to get you, back then alot of people was to get Russia.

Industrializing in record time doesn't sound like a disaster.

I never called the Soviet Union a utopia,

I'm going to stop talking to you now since your don't know that before privization, Argentina had state owned: coal mines, petrochemical plants, steel mills, ect

 

True Laissez Faire economics doesn't work in the modern world. When Adam Smith made his model, he believed the market was the STREET market, not a global market. His model also never dealt with monopolies either. Just like communism, Laissez faire economics works better on paper than in the modern world.

Peace and love

 

What has that got to do with anything. They starved by the millions because collectivisation was a disaster and unleashing a wave of terror against "kulaks" didn't help much either.

Wake up. Are you saying that Russia was different, because they had problems? As opposed to where, the rest of Europe which knew nothing but peace and brotherly love for hundreds of years? As opposed to the US which never had a civil war or a war for independence?

South Korea industrialised in record time, they didn't need to slaughter their own citizens by the millions. Or do I need to explain to you how murdering and starving millions qualifies as a disaster? Is that something you can't figure out?

You're an apologist, too late to weasel out now.

It had some state owned industries. It still does. So does the US. But it never had a centrally planned economy. You have no idea what you are talking about.

I guess you never read Adam Smith. He specifically addressed international trade and monopolies. There was plenty of global trade back then.

 

i am not sure you can call it real trade, i believe it was the colonial powers (not always), taking what they needed for their country.

free trade, real free trade has never being implemented, apart from once in history, which i believe (i may be corrected) was around the 19th century in England, which only lasted a few decades. most of modern histroy and development of states has come about with state controlled capitalism and protectism

 

Yes Stalin forced collective farms yet the people were already starving under Lenin because of the blockaid infact Lenin's solution was NEP where farms were free to sell surplus output yet the problem was that Russia depended on imports of food even before the revolution.

US and Europe didn't have the rest of the world gang up on it.

It would have to be that way if capitalist didn't do everything in their power to crush the Russian revolution in the early years.

You are an apologist for the crimes of capitalism.

 

No they were starving because collectivising agriculture was a catastrophe. You keep ignoring this widely known historical fact. Lenin's solution was to reverse the moronic and self destructive policies he had destroyed the economy with just a few years earlier. NEP meant private property and free trade of goods, which surprise surprise resulted in a rapid recovery of agricultural production. This has nothing at all to do with the blockade.

Germany didn't have the rest of the world gang up on it? How much history do you know, exactly? Any? GERMANY WAS BOMBED TO SMOKING RUBBLE.

Everything in their power. For fucks sake. Russia is not the only country to suffer war. Countries move on. They rebuild. North Korea did everything in their power (with the help of China and Russia) to destroy South Korea. South Korea got rich anyway, they aren't sitting around blaming China 50 fucking years later. Are communists good at anything besides making excuses?

 

Why do you keep talking like the blockade, civil war and hostile troops within is borders had nothing to do with the famine? If the USA had hostile troops in its borders, a civil war and a blockade all the same time you can bet there would be famine.

WWI, blockade and civil-war destroyed the economy what undevloped shit economy Russia had. Lenin used NEP since he never belived in Marxism in one nation and was just stalling till revolution spread.

Yes but Germany was crushed in a few years, Russia was so determined to not be crushed by the capitalist that there were willing to go aginst their ideals.

 

Why do you keep talking like getting bombed flat would have no economic impact? How long will it take for you to get this? Its called comparative analysis. The fact that Russia had problems does not make them unique. Germany had war and a blockade.

Also, its important to note that the idea that a blockade was responsible for the famine and that saying "the capitalists did everything in their power to crush the Russian revolution" is a TOTAL LIE. You know who was the biggest provider of food aid to Russia under Lenin? The evil capitalist United States. Of course Lenin, like you, knew that being a communist means being a liar and a criminal, so he secretly exported grain while receiving it back as aid. Made a few bucks to spend on more important things than feeding peasants.

OK so the idea that other countries suffered massive devastation yet returned to prosperity is just TOO INCONVENIENT a fact for you to accept. Japan had two major cities obliterated by atomic bombs and they recovered.

Being a communist means nothing is ever your fault.

 

Germany was devloped, Russia was poor, if Capitalism worked like your saying then Africa would be a huge superpower since war, poverty and undevlopment wouldn't make a lick of difference.

The US also sent hostile troops into Russia.

Again Russia at the time was as poor as Africa is now and Russia at the time was facing the threat of getting broken up as capitalist carve it up and add it to their empire.

 

How developed were they after they were bombed flat? Look, Germany was bombed flat. The Czech Republic was wealthy and practically untouched. Today, Germany is far wealthier. That proves that having your country bombed into smoking rubble causes less economic harm that communism. Whinging, whining, making excuses, figure pointing, and shifting blame can't change that.

Yes but you blamed the famine on the evil capitalists "who did everything they could" to destroy Russia, which apparently includes providing aid. You have a habit of coming up with totally irrelevant "yeah but" comments whenever you can't back up your arguments.

So they endured forced labour, starvation, a police state, mass murder, and poverty for decades but escaped the horrors of being part of the capitalist empire like... er... Austria?

 

*bangs head on desk*

 

Germany had aid from the USA, the USSR was an island economically speaking and started with nothing.

Okay, a combination of capitalist interference, droughts, civil-war and a friction betwen food producers and Lenin's administration, happy?

But don't act like everyone had a fully belly before the revolution.

More like to escape the horrors of being part of the capitalist empire like Africa, they would have been brutally oppressed for the gains of the occupiers.