Jesus has never accepted worship (Mt.2:11-Mt.14.33.Mt.28.17 etc)

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Hi everyone, I hope you are all fine and happy today and everyday, Amen =)​

I already commented on such verses which talk about people worshiped Jesus in my thread [Is God 1 or 3? ]and again I wrote this thread as a response to this Post
In this thread such verses will be discussed more by Misha'al ibn Abdullah

BTW: Such verses can be found in (Matthew 2.2-11- Matthew 14.33- John 9:38-Matthew 28.17- and other verses) ​

NB: anything is underlined and colored in violet and blue color is a link.​

by:Misha'al ibn Abdullah©: ​

Post 3 (The Greek verb which was translated to ''worship'')
Post 4 (Let the OT Verses Explain)
Post 5 (Proof of the true translation or meaning)

by: catstevens =) you'll find here but I will copy it and paste it again in post 6 of this thread. ​

Here we go…​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

 

To most Christians myself included...We believe Jesus was God. Why wouldn't we worship
God?

 

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The Greek verb which was translated to ''worship''
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With regard to John 9:38 "Lord. I believe, and he worshipped him." and Matthew 28:17 "they saw him, they worshipped him." Please note that the word translated as "worshipped" in both verses is the GREEK word "prosekunesan" which is derived from the root word proskuneo {pros-ku-neh'-o}.
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The literal meaning of this word is (and I quote): "to kiss, like a dog licking his masters hand." This word also has the general meaning of "bow, crouch, crawl, kneel or prostrate." Please check the Strong's concordance for the true meaning of this word. Is the act of kissing someone's hand the same as worshipping him? Once again, selective translation. è(*Steven: just as (AM) in (John8:58) Before Abraham was I AM for more details about John8:58 click Here)
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However, the above two verses of John and Matthew are not the only two verses of the Bible were such selective translation techniques are employed in order to impress upon the reader a chosen doctrine. For example, in the "Gospel of Matthew" the English "translation" records that Jesus was "worshipped" by Magi that came from the East (2:11); by a ruler (9:18) , by boat people (14:33), by a Canaanite woman (15:24), by the mother of the Zebedees (20:20); and by Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (28:9) to name but a very few.
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Since worshipping any one other than God is a fundamental sin, therefore, the reader understands that Jesus was God since he condoned them "worshipping" him. Since Jesus (pbuh) never once in the whole Bible ever told anyone "worship me!" (as God (the father) Himself does in many​

Places (one e.g. Isaiah66:23 ), therefore, once again, we are told that Jesus was ''hinting'' that he wants us to worship him. (*Steven: Isaiah 45.17-22 [TEV=Today's English Version (TEV) or Good News Bible]: ''…It is he who says, "I am the LORD, and there is no other god. I have not spoken in secret or kept my purpose hidden... I am the LORD, and I speak the truth; I make known what is right." Plus:
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I continue in other post…
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Let the Verses Explain ​

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However, as we can plainly see, what the author was in fact saying in these verses is that these people "fell at Jesus' feet," or that these people "knelt before Jesus."
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How then shall we interpret their "kneeling down before Jesus."? Should we understand that they were "praying" to him? Far from it! Let us ask the Bible to explain:
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"And when Abigail saw David, she hasted, and lighted off the ass, and fell before David on her face, and bowed herself to the ground, And fell at his feet, and said, Upon me, my lord, [upon] me [let this] iniquity [be]: and let thine handmaid, I pray thee, speak in thine audience, and hear the words of thine handmaid." 1 Samuel 25:23-24
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When Abigail "fell before" king David was she "worshipping" him? Was she "praying" to him? When she addressed him as "my lord," did she mean that he was her God?. Similarly,
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"Then she went in, and fell at his (Elisha's) feet, and bowed herself to the ground, and took up her son, and went out." 2 Kings 4:37
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"And his (Joseph's) brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we [be] thy servants." Genesis 50:18
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"And there went over a ferry boat to carry over the king's household, and to do what he thought good. And Shimei the son of Gera fell down before the king, as he was come over Jordan;"
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2 Samuel 19:18
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"Worship" is one of those English words which carry a double meaning. The one most popular among most people is "to pray to." This is the meaning that immediately springs into everyone's mind when they read this word. However, "worship" has another meaning. It also means "to respect," "to reverence," or "to adore" (see for example Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, tenth edition). The second meaning is used more frequently in England than, for example, in the United States. However, the first remains the most popular and well known meaning in any English speaking country. Even at that, in Britain it is not at all uncommon even in this age to find the British addressing their nobles as "your worship."
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What the translators have done when translating these verse is that they have "technically" translated the word correctly, however, the true meaning of this word is now completely lost.
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I continue in other post…
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Proof of the true translation or meaning
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Finally, in order to seal the proof of this matter and to dispel any lingering doubt that may remain in the reader's mind, the reader is encouraged to obtain a copy of the "New English Bible." In it they will find the translations of the quoted verses to read:
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"bowed to the ground" (Mt.2:11);
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"fell at his feet" (Mt.14:33);
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"falling prostrate before him" (Mt.28:9), and
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"fell prostrate before him" (Mt.28:17)...etc.
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Please also read the translation of these verses in "The Complete Bible, an American Translation" By Edward Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith where they are once again honestly translated as:
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"they threw themselves down and did homage to him" (Mt.2:11),
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"fell down before him"(Mt.14:33),
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"and they went up to him and clasped his feed and bowed to the ground before him" (M.t28:9), and
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"bowed down before him"(Mt.28:17), etc.
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Once again, we remember that such sublime manipulation of the translation in order to establish with the reader a chosen doctrine was exposed by God in the noble Qur'an. The Qur'an says: "There is among them a party who distort the Scripture with their tongues that you might think that it is from the Scripture, when it is not from the Scripture; and they say, 'It is from God,' but it is not from God; and they speak a lie against God, and [well] they know it!" The Qur'an, A'al-Umran (3):78
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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By: catstevens​

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(KJV)Matt. 2.1-2, 2.11:Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him

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Let's read verse 2 and 11 from (NAB= New American Bible)
Saying, "Where is the newborn king of the Jews? We saw his star at its rising and have cometo do him homage."and on entering the house they saw the child with Mary his mother.They prostrated themselves and did him homage. Click here to read this verse from (NAB)

Homage (Oxford Dictionary):n. tribute, expression of reverence (pay homage to). [Latin homo man] ​

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An authority on the Bible and its original language, George M. Lamsa, explained the word "worship" as it occurs specifically in John 9:38in his book GOSPEL LIGHT (1936 edition, p. 353):

The Aramaic word sagad, worship, also means to bend or to kneel down. Easterners in greeting each other generally bow the head or bend down. When a ruler or holy man is greeted, the people kneel before him. "He worshipped him" does not imply that he worshipped Jesus as one who worshipped God. Such an act would have been regarded as sacrilegious and a breach of the first commandment in the eyes of the Jews and the man might have been stoned. But he knelt before him in token of homage and gratitude. This is also a sign of self-surrender and loyalty. The blind man worshipped Jesus in acknowledgment of his divine power and in appreciation of his compassion on him in opening his eyes. He had no knowledge of the claims of Jesus nor was he interested in his teachings, but he was convinced by the miracle performed that he must be a holy man and one empowered by God. ​

To read more about the definitions of the word "worship" please clickhere and concentrate on number 4 under the section Definitions of WORSHIP in Hebrew (O.T)​

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Easterners in greeting each other generally bow the head or bend down. When a ruler or holy man is greeted, the people kneel before him.

For example:1 Samuel 25.23: Andwhen Abigail saw David, she hasted, and lighted off the ass, andfell before David on her face, and bowed herself to the groundAnd fell at his feet, and said, Upon me, my lord,upon me let this iniquity be: and let thine handmaid, I pray thee, speak in thine audience, and hear the words of thine handmaidLet not my lord, I pray thee…​

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as the member Speez stated =):When you read scripture, you must understand the original message as these passages were written thousands of years ago and that language changes meaning over time.

(KJV)Matt.14.33:Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, of a truth thou art the Son of God.​

Well, my comment on this is the same on Matt.2.2-11, plus, let's read this verse from other versions:​

A- (Young's Literal Translation) ​

And those in the boat having come, did bow to him, saying, `Truly -- God's Son art thou.'Click

B- (Darby Translation)​

But those in the ship came and did homage to him, saying, Truly thou art God's Son. Click

C- (Worldwide English)


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Then the men in the boat bowed down in front of Jesus. They said, `You really are the Son of God.'Click​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!

 

"they threw themselves down and did homage to him" (Mt.2:11),
"fell down before him"(Mt.14:33),
"and they went up to him and clasped his feet and bowed to the ground before him" (M.t28:9), and
"bowed down before him"(Mt.28:17), etc.

Aren't all these things signs of worship?

It's like saying arms were wrapped around you instead of hugged. It means the same thing.

 

Dear Portalguy

because my dear as I see *honestly* Christians worship Jesus and consider it God with no single proof, even from their current four Gospels. Jesus has never ever claimed to be God nor said so.

Isaiah 45.17-22 [TEV=Today's English Version (TEV) or Good News Bible]:
''…It is he who says, "I am the LORD, and there is no other god. I have not spoken in secret or kept my purpose hidden... I am the LORD, and I speak the truth; I make known what is right."

"And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee (the father) the only true God" (John 17:3).​

And because God is the only one who should be worshipped,​

John 4.21-34: (Jesus) saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Fatherè (he said the father he didn't mention the son nor the Holy Spirit, he only mentioned the father because the father is God and God only should be worshipped). Ye worship ye know not what, we know what we worship… and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father…for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
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Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!
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Did you read all posts? ​

Yes, No​

Because the answer is there? ​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!
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1. Mark 2:1-12--Jesus heals a paralytic. He had authority to forgive sins, which is something only God Himself can do. Then, to authenticate His claim, He demonstrated His power by healing the paralytic.

2. The miracles Jesus performed are a very strong indication of His divinity (because no mere human can work actual miracles by his own power). Jesus referred to the miracles in John 10:24-39 as proof that he was telling the truth. This passage is Christ's own response to the unbelieving Jews' charge of blasphemy (dishonoring God by claiming to be God). Incidentally, this section also includes a beautiful promise that once you are saved/born again/become a Christian, you can never lose your salvation. Verses 28-29 say we will "never perish; no one can snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one." (Here is another strong statement that He is God.) We can have the assurance of eternal security because we didn't earn salvation in the first place; it is a free gift (Ephesians 2:8,9).

3. During Christ's trial, the chief priests asked Him point blank, "Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." And He said,

4. Jesus says in John 10:11-18 that he is the Good Shepherd. When you read this passage along with Ezekiel 34:1-16, you can see that Jesus was identifying Himself with God, who pronounced Himself Shepherd over Israel. The Jewish people, being an agrarian and shepherding society, knew and dearly loved this section of the Old Testament because God was using a metaphor they lived every day. So when Jesus said, "I am the Good Shepherd," and that whole John passage so clearly parallels the Ezekiel passage, there was no doubt that He was claiming to be God.

5. John 4:25-26. This is where the Samaritan woman, whom Jesus went to meet at the well, gets into a discussion of "living water" with Jesus. He pinpoints her sinful lifestyle (knowledge He would not have had as a mere human passerby), then He admits that He is the long-awaited Messiah: "I who speak to you am He."

6. John 5:1-18. Jesus heals a lame man on the Sabbath, which the unbelieving Jews gave Him a hard time about. His answer was, "My Father is always at His work to this very day, and I too am working." It was a well-known Jewish line of thought that, although God rested on the seventh day after Creation week, He continued to "work" in being loving, compassionate, and just, as well as keeping the earth producing, keeping the sun moving, etc. In other words, although the creating had stopped, the maintenance went on--even on the Sabbath, and that was the only "work" allowed on that day. So Jesus is putting Himself on the same level as his Father in working on the Sabbath. And by calling God "My Father" (instead of "Our Father"), He was claiming an intimate relationship with God that far exceeded anyone else's. So in these two ways, He was making Himself equal with God.

7. John 16:28. "I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father." What Christ is saying here is that he existed along with the Father before being born. He "entered the world" by wrapping Himself in human flesh and being born as a baby. He grew up, fulfilled His mission/ministry, was crucified and raised from the dead (all part of the "mission") and then left the world to go back to the Father in heaven, where He is now seated at the right hand of God (the place of honor). He is the only person who ever existed before conception. That Christ was in a "pre-incarnate state" means that He is God.

8. (This is many people's favorite argument for the deity of Christ, including the author's.)

First, turn to Exodus 3, where Moses encounters God in the burning bush. God tells Moses that he is the one He has chosen to lead the Israelites out of Egypt. Moses says to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me 'What is His name?' Then what shall I tell them?" God replies to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'" God has said that His own name, His personal name, is "I AM."

Now...

# a) Turn to John 8:56-58. Jesus is talking to the unbelieving Jews. "Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing My day; he saw it and was glad." "You are not yet 50 years old," they said to Him, "and you have seen Abraham?" "I tell you the truth," Jesus announced, "before Abraham was, I AM!" Jesus was the great I AM from before the beginning of time; He existed before Abraham ever was. He is claiming here to be the I AM of the Old Testament. Verse 59 says the Jews picked up stones to stone Him, but the Lord Jesus slipped away. The reason they wanted to stone Him was because stoning was the death penalty for blasphemy. He was claiming to be Yahweh--Jehovah--Almighty God--I AM. (Of course, it wasn't blasphemy when Christ claimed to be who He truly was!)

# b) John 8:24. "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I AM, you will indeed die in your sins." In your Bible, it may read "if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be...." The extra words are supplied by the editors; they're not in the original text. If you're familiar with Exodus 3 you don't need the extra words for it to make grammatical sense. The Lord Jesus is again claiming to be God.

# c) John 18:4. In the Garden of Gethsemane, Judas and some priests and soldiers are about to take Jesus prisoner. "Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to Him, went out and asked them, 'Who is it that you want?' 'Jesus of Nazareth,' they replied. 'I AM,' Jesus said. When He said, 'I AM,' they drew back and fell to the ground." (Again, in your Bible the editors may have supplied "I am [he]" to make it grammatically correct. The Greek just says, "I AM.")

The force of Jesus' claim to be Yahweh (I AM) was so powerful that it literally knocked the arresting officers and the Jewish priests off their feet!

 

All taken from this website... http://www.probe.org/content/view/90/77/

 

John 14:7-10 [7] If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." [8] Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." [9] Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father'? [10] Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

John 10:31-33 [31] Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, [32] but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" [33] "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

 

Second part from here...http://www.godonthe.net/evidence/said_god.htm

 

Portalguy, please consider our words thoughtfully and lovingly, from ones who care deeply about you and your thoughts:

John 5:36
I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me.

Please don't take it the wrong way, but I don't think you understand what it means to be one with God:
John 14:10
Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

You missed that Jesus follows (and trusts) commands of the Father (indicating the Father is greater than He):
John 10:18
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.

 

Kharakov are you Cat Stevens? Secondly, please read my posts as well. I think it more than proves him claiming to be God.

 

Portalguy
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You didn't answer my Question in post #9
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Dear the topic here is about Jesus has never accepted worship (Mt.2:11-Mt.14.33.Mt.28.17 etc) so Mark2:1-2 is off topic, but…I think I commented on this in my thread [Is God 1 or 3? ] but I don't mind to make new thread as a response to Mark2:1-2 only including other different opinions, but not now.
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Again off topic, I don't know if I discussed these verses in my thread [Is God 1 or 3? ] /4, 5, 6,7: also off topic but again I don't mind to discuss them in new thread someday or soon but not now.
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''I and my Father are one'' (John 10:30) Doesn't point to Jesus' divinity è (link)
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Do you mean that if he said that he is the son of God then he is God? If so, here are relevant links
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Yusuf Islam is the son of God (quote form the Gospel,seriously)?!!
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If you want to know Jesus' father (the bible is the speaker)
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Or you didn't continue your point, or I lost you?
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Is Jesus God because of (John 8:56-59) ''before Abraham was, I AM'' è (link)
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For a summary here are two links
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Part (1) Part (2)
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But I have questions?
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1- They are 3 Gods but one, each is distinct, and yet all are oneè (JesusDiedForU) is this right?
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2- The father isn't the son, the son isn't the Holy Spirit yet one (am I right)?
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3- Who was the speaker in Torah the son or the father?
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4- Is Jesus' name too is Yahweh? Is the Holy Spirit's name is Yahweh too?
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Peace and love
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!
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http://www.afcministry.com/Explaining_the_Trinity.htm

 

Portalguy
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I am sure that I commented and discussed these verses John 14:7-10/ John 10:31-33 in my thread [Is God 1 or 3? ] but again I don't mind to make new thread about it including other different opinions, but not now. And regarding John 10:31-33 I think you can find my comment in [Is God 1 or 3? ] Other relevant links click here and here==>read the second Quote and my comment then click here
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Peace and love
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!
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Cat, I think you are a wise and noble man to debate with. But, your posts are like minibooks brother. I read most of it. But, to read all of it would take time I don't always have. Sorry, if I sound disrespectful. Not trying to be.

 

Kharakov
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A Verse to think about. Good one Kharacov.
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I think this is relevant link to clarify such metaphors and the like.
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• My Father is greater than I (Jesus) (John 14: 28)
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• My Father, who gave them to me, is greater than all. (John 10: 29)
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• What I teach is not my own teaching, but it comes from God, who sent me. (John 7: 16)
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• I can of my own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is
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just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father who has
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sent me. (John 5: 30)
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• No one knows, however, when that day or hour will come—neither the
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angels in heaven, nor the Son; only the Father knows. (Mark 13: 32)
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• Anyone who says something against the Son of man can be forgiven,but whoever says something against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven-now or ever.(Matthew 12: 32)
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After reading these clear-cut statements spoken by Jesus himself, what can we conclude?Based on Jesus’ honest and frank testimony that the only true God (the Father) is greater than him and greater than the Holy Spirit, that what he teaches is not his, that he and the Holy Spirit know nothing about the last day, and that he can do nothing of himself, you should accept what Jesus says about himself and not make him God or the equal of God!
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Some verses to think about:
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John 5:30: By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
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John 8:28: So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
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John 7:16: Jesus answered, "My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me.
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John 11:41: So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, "Father, I thank you that you have heard me. I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me."
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John 13:16: I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.​

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John 8:40: "If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would do the things Abraham did. As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. ​

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Acts 2:22 " Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know" Peter in the Book of Acts testifies about Jesus. Jesus thus even to his disciples, as to early Christians, not poisoned by Pauline doctrine, was a man, not a God è for more about this visit the following links:
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Jesus isn't God? Who is saying that?
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More links
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"God is not a man … neither the son of man…" Numbers 23:19
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Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord."[This confirms that Jesus preached to worship One and Only God, not trinity.] Does God have a God? (Our God is one Lordè our points that it is Jesus' God too?)
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And because God is the only one who should be worshipped,
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Jesus said: "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee (the father) the only true God" (John 17:3).
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And because God is the only one who should be worshipped,
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John 4.21-34: (Jesus) saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Fatherè (he said the father he didn't mention the son nor the Holy Spirit, he only mentioned the father because the father is God and God only should be worshipped). Ye worship ye know not what, we know what we worship… and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father…for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!
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