A new twist on an old flame...

I hate abortion debates. I really do. I get involved because it's a big deal for me, but quickly back out, because instead of trying to look for ways to find a middle ground or do anything constructive, both sides just seem to go...well...crazy.

It's ridiculous.

So here's a thread about abortion. But it's not a pro-life/pro-choice debate. I think both sides can agree that abortion is a horrible choice to be making. It's not an easy one for most women, and it's not a "good one" as far as pro-lifers are concerned.

So why don't we all sit down and think of ways to REDUCE the number of unplanned pregnancies happening in this country? You know, nip the problem in the bud? Give women more control over their sexuality in the first place by allowing them opportunity for an unplanned pregnancy not to happen? Give men more control over the say in their unborn child's life by allowing them to decide more firmly whom they want to have children with?

So let's start....In what ways can we come together and make the entire hatred/endless debate/blaming thing stop? How can we more positively make this issue go away.

Any rhetoric either way, trying to start a debate and this thread gets closed. No talk of abortion. We're talking about ways to not get to that point.

 

I had a therory, years ago... it involved a short-term sterilization done at birth. A baby, regardless of sex, is given a sterilization procedure at birth. It stays in effect until a COUPLE applies to have their sterilizations reversed.

The cost of both procedures (the sterilization and the reverse) are covered by the governement (figuring the cost of the procedures would be much lower than the cost of all the "government assistance" programs currently used to support all the unwanted children). Parenting classes, birthing classes and relationship classes are included, and must be completed, with a grade average of 80% or higher, before the reversal process is undertaken.

Again, this was an idea I had years ago... and I admit, it is "big brotherish". But, I do think there are some good aspects of it, like the parenting classes, as we've all seen people who just don't have the needed skill set to be an effective parent.

 

i agree. the very fact that abortion exists is a sad commentary on the state of our society- a society in which mistakes and sometimes even horrible things (ie rape) can and all too often do happen. as my psych professor says, no woman WANTS to have an abortion. it's just that some feel they have no alternative.

but as to what preemptive measures could be taken...tough question. i'm really fighting the urge to go off on a conservative, pro- life tirade here like i've often heard from my family, but that wouldn't accomplish anything but getting this thread deleted. for that matter, i'm not even sure i agree with everything i've grown up hearing on the matter. being a college student has really brought me face- to- face with the realities of the world- the fact that people are going to do what they're going to do, and perhaps the best we can do is to make that as safe as possible. however, (i may get crap for saying this) i think it's important to emphasize that sex can have consequences that a lot of girls/women aren't prepared to deal with, be it an STD or a pregnancy. also, an unplanned pregnancy isn't solely the woman's fault or responsibility any more than a planned one is, and should be dealt with accordingly. men need to understand that their actions have consequences and cannot be allowed to pretend this is not the case.

with that in mind, perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to teach kids more than just the straight facts on sex in school- i.e. the significance, consequences, and responsibilities they have if/when it becomes relevant in their lives. teach them that it is a big deal, and shouldn't ever be treated casually. it's also important to teach girls and guys their specific responsibilities, being careful to emphasize that the responsibility for preventing an unplanned pregnancy needs to be shared between both.

i'm not sure where i'm going with this, so i'm stopping this rambling. maybe someone can make some sense out of it...

 

what makes you guys think education will work? We do drug education and programs like D.A.R.E. actually have worse rate of drug users than those who don't go through the programs!

We can hand out all the free condoms in the world...but kids will still opt out on using them. The problem with people like 12-25 is that they believe they're invincible. Who honestly thinks anything is going to happen to them during that time? You can bombard them with statistics and it will go in one ear and out the other.

I dont know what would effectively work.

 

better birth control that's less easy to forget, more effective, has fewer sideaffects. Birth control that both the man and woman can take, in case the woman decides she wants a baby even if the man doesn't, at least he'll still be shooting blanks

 

You want to know the problem with D.A.R.E. drug education? It's BIASED! It's a dose of "drugs are bad, mmmkay?" It's not a program educating you on how to use drugs responsibly, what the pros and cons to use are, etc.

It's cop standing at the front of the class telling every kid some bullshit rhetoric about how marijuana is bad for you and you shouldn't do it. Period.

We're talking about REAL education. Education that doesn't just say "Sex is bad, MMKay?" We're talking education on what sex is, how it works, why it feels good, how you should prepare yourself if you plan to engage in sex, what your rights and responsibilities as a sexually active person are, where you can find all the information and gear you need to properly protect yourself and your partner, etc.

Drug education isn't education, but brain-washing bullshit that doesn't work.

Real education always works.

 

well apparently neither does our sex education. I was taught all about forms of birth control, stds, pregnancy, and responsibilities when i was in school. What else do you think we should cover?

At some point, you will step over the line and be seen as encouraging sex. That will piss off a lot of parents.

 

What sex ed course were you taught? I'd like to have seen it! I was taught nothing of the sort.

We didn't learn about STDs, how pregnancy occurs, forms of birth control, nothing. And it's getting worse with each passing school year.

And who cares what parents think? If they don't want their child learning this stuff, they can sign a paper opting their child out of said course. Easy as that. But it needs to be offered.

And it's only one part of a possible solution...Better birth control available to everyone would be another good thing.

 

first of all, proper sex ed. not a sex-ed, that neclects the fact that we're all human, and yes, that we have a sex drive. It should contain how to use a condom, and what other means of birth controll are available. (that's the way they do it here in ger, and BC-Pills are free for under 18 year olds)
But then, accidents happen. And to reduce the abortion rates for those,

no woman should have to terminate a pregnancy just because she doesn't know how to feed and cloth the kid. This should not be a reason in an industrialized and rich nation like the US.

No woman should have the feeling that she doesn't have a future (in terms of a carreer, job oportunities, or education) if she has a child.

There should be programms to help these women to be financially stable, so they can raise their child. To me, when I hear that women in the US abort for financial reasons, sounds to superficial, and in a way so........ poor? In the richest nation people have to do these sad things just because of money issues? Ok, I come from a country where EVERYone who has kids gets financial aid until the kid is out of education (in some cases until 27!) it's 150 € a month, and that is far enough to pay for food, and cloth.

 

There's another good solution:

Abolishing societal stereotypes that women and men having children before a certain age are "ruining their lives". Yes, it's hard but it's done! Or the stereotype where you must live in a middle-class home to be happy.

Good starts.

 

It went under the generic 'health' class. It included everything on sex, drugs, and diets.

Ironically, i think the most effective thing was not any statistic..but a video we had to watch of a live birth. I'm still scarred.

Must be a state by state(or school zone by school zone)

That's fine. As long as the parents have an option to opt their kid out.

However, i think this responsibility ideally belongs to parents and not the state.

agreed...and cures for stds would be good

 

Ideally, parents would take this responsibility...But in a society where actual conversations with your children are seen as uncomfortable and often times ridiculous, someone needs to take control. And I don't see parents doing so until it's too late.

What kind of contradictory family-vibes are people getting when one commercial says "Talk to your kids" and another one says "The TV's OUT? You mean, we have to TALK with one another?" Funny wins out. Families lose.

 

I think if birth control were more easy to get a hold of would cut down on a lot of the problem.
Or, instead of teaching today's kids that sex is a bad thing unless you're married (Because we're still in the 17th century), kids might be more prone to ASK for birth control instead of being ashamed and playing the game of chance with unsafe sex.
Maybe if sex weren't so taboo in schools and they were actually able to have a REAL sex ed class, teens and such would be more informed.
Monkey see, monkey do.
If you tell a kid 'No' they're definitely going to do it.

 

i think i'm the only one here who has been in sex ed the most recently...but they teach the whole std and prengnancy thing, but they don't teach birth control. apparently the parents will get offended. i think they should though, because we're going to have to use it eventually anyways. but it wouldn't matter, because no one listens anyways. they either sit there like logs because they're bored, or they laugh, or they say "i'm never gonna have any trouble with STDs or pregnancy." i don't think sex ed will solve the whole teen pregnancy thing, i think only maturity will.

 

Sex ed goes farther than one class during one year of high school.

Ideally, it should start with an honest conversation the first time the child asks, "Mommy, where do babies come from?" and continue, heeding the child's level of understanding, with every new question posed.

My mother made it very clear from the beginning what sex was, how it worked, and as I got older, what my rights and responsibilities were when I decided I was mature enough to handle it.

She was a never-ending source of wisdom and birth control advice for my girl friends as they started experimenting with sex, at the ages of 14 and on.

And frankly, sex-ed in schools won't do that much good when we're a part of a society that uses sex to sell products and gain ratings on television shows. We're all so desensitised to what sex is that it's rendered sex-ed almost inefficient...

 

my sex ed started when I put my hand down my pants with my mom around... she said that it's totally normal and good but something you do in private, in your room. I poked at my body before I ever wondered where babies come from, but she's always been very upfront with me and a great information source. She also gave me a great book (Sex: A User's Guide from the 80's sometime) that had so much info in it, and let me know that I could ask her any questions I wanted to.

She taught me tons about birth control as well, and since then I've sort of become the authority on birth control in my group of friends (well, not the ultimate authority, but a few friends ahve asked me for advice and said they didn't know who else to go to for info on it)