Leftism brought every freedom you enjoy today.

But Point

It is interesting that you actually are not disputing what has been said only that it has been said

 

The great Russian Anarchist, Peter Kropotkin said:
"But what right had I to these highest joys, when all around me was nothing but misery and struggle for a moldy bit of bread; when whatsoever I should spend to enable me to live in that world of higher emotions must needs be taken from the very mouths of those who grew the wheat and had not bread enough for their children?"

 

I don't necessarily know about "socialists" considering I've yet to see such a society. Mostly a lot of pseudo-socialist DICTATORSHIPS, but one thing is for sure the LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE philosophy is what has given everyone their freedom.

The "Liberals" that people blame for everything were (and are) behind the greatest movements in CIVIL LIBERTIES and CIVIL RIGHTS. The "Conservatives" were always trying to pull people back to "past-think". They wanted to keep it to where there was only the rich and the poor. The religious and the "heretic". No government aid. No "handouts" to poor, but plenty for corporations and religious groups. No rights to your own body, but plently of rights for corporate and religious controls. No cries for the government involvement of corporate greed, but plenty for government involvement in a woman's uterus, a gay man's bedroom and the "secular" school system.

Do yourself a favor. Go thank a Liberal...today!

 

Yea, I do like it, because I'd rather live in a place where 75% of the people live well off, and 25% live what is a poor life in their country, but by almost any other country standard would be a reasonable standard of living.

 

But your forgetting about imperialism, the west is rich through the oppression of poorer nations. Tax dollars go to the oppression of poor workers so they starve while we literally get fat.

 

Wow! Someone who might have taken a Political Science class! I am super impressed, Libertine.

Yes, it is liberals who have provided this country with the freedoms it enjoys. Although you are talking more about Modern aka welfare liberals than classical Liberalism. Classical Liberalism = Modern conservatism. Funny how that works? Classical liberalism is about government being as small as possible to avoid infringement on their rights (negative freedom). Welfare Liberalism is about providing people with equal opportunities to enjoy those rights (positive freedom).

Modern conservatives follow the model of classical liberals; however, they do what government assistance for corporations. Classical liberals would see this as too much gov't interferance. They are true Laissez-faire economists.

Socialists don't focus on individual freedoms, just the class inequalities.

Peace & Love

 

False.

 

LOL! What's your basis? Your opinion? Wow, why don't you take a Political Theory class before you start spouting your opinions.

According to Dr. Bradley of Indiana University Kokomo, the two are very similar. There are a couple differences; however, modern conservatism aka individualist conservatism is VERY similar to classical liberalism. The differences being: a. build up of military for modern conservatism b. gov't assistance for corporations ie tax breaks. A classic liberal would want none of the following. Gov't should be as small as possible and out of people's lives, which modern conservatives also argee with.

On the socialist note: Check out McCallum's Triadic Model of Freedom. In Socialism, the agent is the common working people. The obsticale is class divisions, economic inequalities, unequal life chances, and false consciouness. The goal is the fulfillment of human needs, eg satsifying work, fair share of product. 1 Individual freedoms are not focused on; that is liberalism.

If what I said was false, why don't you provide some evidence to prove it?

Peace & Love


1. Ball, Terence. Political Ideologies and the Democratic Ideal. pp. 118. Pearson Education, Inc. 2004

 

Just curious, are you as dumb as you seem?

 

Simple. The people working for them are currently unaware of their actions. When this despicable information surfaces, I would think everybody (media people, military, etc,) would resign and start again without the top corrupt people, essentially firing them.

I don't know about all, but they have control where it counts (I suspect). As for "extreme communism," if you mean the likes of The Bolsheviks (whom "they" funded and pushed to power, as "they" did with the National Socialist German Workers Party), I think it shows that certain people set up pawns to do dirty work so that the "opposing" power can move in and change things.

And I don't see too much of "the freest of laissez-faire capitalism" these days. All the big conglomerates are merging; it makes me think that monopolistic capitalism is simply a slow movement to communism/corporatism.

And I didn't say anything about directing all of human history...sheesh you put words in people's mouths...I think these people are very smart and are more of taking advantange of history as it happens, getting to the point of making it happen here and there.

Remember Napoleon?

**

You could say that. I more believe in governing yourself, and having no official or "federal" system, just more of unwritten laws and understandings, just as you understand now to obey the law, why not simply understand nature and not add laws, etc. Whew. Governments are fairy tales, end of story.

I think, nowadays, government and money go hand in hand. As long as you have a dividing system like money, the people who have the most of it will buy the control that is the government.

If we got rid of just government, then money truely runs everything and it's like the wild west, with pirates and robbers, etc; it would be totally unsafe.
If we got rid of just money, then the state would control everything and be all powerful, leading to that power corrupting into totalitarianism.
Take out both, and you have individuals starting their own buisness as in capitalism, while all labor and resources offered are free so you could also say, each according to his means to each according to his ability or whatever.

You see, true freedom and peace comes from elements of your text book example of left and right. The Elite, the powermakers, they know this, so they divide it and spin things into non-issues, like drugs and the abortion controversey, to have the masses squabbling over meaningless crap while government and buisness grow and infringe on my mind just a little bit more.

Here's a similar thread I did a while back:
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106687

Once the knowledge and the method is out, it becomes very obvious. Once you know the monster's tracks, you can see where it's been and what it does. With no official "authority," there is no authority to usurp and corrupt.

In my linked thread I describe the Free Media, similar to the internet, where there are fewer "news" outlets like CNN and Fox that broadcast crap. The free-er speech is, the more independent thinking is expressed and recycled into the viewer/reader thinking himself. It's sybiotic, unlike "owned" media today that more of enforces opinions of a few rich old men.

**

Sorry there's so much; good Lord

Left and Right are different flavors of government, I don't want either.

Great question, but I think the way you phrased it makes it sound like this is suddenly happening and everyone's going to go crazy in chaos. I think there would be somewhat of an education phase where we discuss globally the emerging facts that government is a mental construct, money is doing harm, etc.
So around the world we'd get on the same track, it would maybe take a year to let the idea sink in, during this time current rules still stand.
Then, one day, we'd realize we were living in the utopia for a while, and there was no one day where people "take power". The way things are would simply shift. Any rising armies would be confronted by the people, who are unified through ununification.

Represent yourself; that's the most democratic means right there.

Violence is statisticly lower in areas where gun use is understood and defense is not made illegal.
Most premeditated murders of today happen regardless of law. Most unnecessary murders are byproducts of currency culture (liquor store robberies, theft).
There would be no rich to hire guards. everyone is rich now, no use to have guards.
War would be highly unlikely, except over land, and I guess in that case you'd better have big guns, or be man enough to realize how huge Earth is and simply move.

I'm pretty spent, but...

The "they" is policy makers and money movers, war starters, prison builders, media owners...people who really making the world work.

Of course most people are decent, but most of what they know is prescribed to them, not by them.

In the USA, left and right are used to achieve the same goals. Big government, big buisness. I see no difference, and most people base their views on what talking head pundit has the nicest suit.

whew.

Next time, please don't use one post to ask so many questions, lol.

peace

 

Interesting response Kblaze. That makes me think... I agree with most everything you have said. The problem is deprogramming people, those who depend on the system and will protect it. I think most programmed people want to be someone else and the political/ economic system now gives them that identity. Those people will do nothing. Also, it's easier for many to believe what is on TV than investigate it themselves. People do not think for themselves anymore. "People would rather die than think; in fact, they do so" Bertrand Russell.

Good thoughts though.

Peace & Love

 

History is your best friend Mr. genius.

The only reason these socialistic, communistic, and anarchistic movements failed to gain power was because they were too divided and the Right took advantage and conquered.

 

If you had to pick left government vs right, which would you pick? and do you consider all kind of governments bad and why?

Does that include you? Did you form your own knowledge?

You are blind.

In theory left and right differ greatly.

 

How old are you?

 

lol

 

Oh, you're 14. That's what I thought. Can I barrow your $20 Che Guevara t-shirt you bought at Spencers? I want to look cool for my poseur buddies. I want them to think I am some sort of revolutionary badass so they will accept me into their circle.

 

lol

Only 14 years old smear character to show how intelligent and powerful they are.

 

Well, you certainly write like a 14 yr. old. Then again, maybe you're Chinese. That would explain a few things.

 

or not

 

Can you name a few things that would explain?