pretending to be a muslim out of fear

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4823874.stm

this is a story from afghanistan ,where a man is going to be killed for thinking islam and mohammed are fake and becoming a christian

I personally know people who have to pretend to be muslims because of fear of violence ,from family or other muslims

how can you be sure that anyone really believes in it ?

 

Well, Islam is bad news even for muslims.


http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/subcontinent/2006/March/subcontinent_March751.xml&section=subcontinent&col=

 

I know Asian people that have to pretend to be Muslims too, incase they are beaten or killed. It's barbaric!

 

Islam is a fear dominated religion, set on submission and obedience. Just like Judaism and Christianity. This is not the ture essenses of the religions, these are the corrupt versions. It can all be separetly addressed in each religion, due to the lifestyles and cultures at the time. http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...ubcontinent&col
Such as with that, Islam was founded in a time where Barbaric Paganism dominated Arabia. In order to counteract this with a new revolution of society and culture, they had to use Violent barbaric means. Seeing this is all the people of the area knew. This is why Islam was the third and final monotheism, yet the most militant. This is where also the victimization of women comes in. In arabian society pre-Islam, the only job a woman could be was a whore. There were brothels as big as small towns. Filled with incest, and syphillis, and herpes. These whores were often abused and ritually murdered to the gods. Kidnapped and raped for years then left in the desert to starve. Violent pimps, and Brothel owners could kill them and beat them to death if they didn't bring in a revenue. They were taken from their families or even sold to be sex slaves to the wealthy. Now you can understand why keeping a woman clothed in a mask, and not allowing her to go out on your own would be actually beneficial. If a woman were murdered or raped, it was like a piece of property there would no be concequences by the husband and community. Outlawing of pervesion, and whore houses was a benefit. These girls would now take a husband and remain with them, even though the husband could start a harem if he was wealthy. It was no a "disguisting Babylonian Brothel". It kept women from getting out of control sexually, and getting abused because of it. Which that link above you pasted is an exact instance of this. Islam just has to get a little more with the times, without returning to the filth of previous times.

 

It's very bad that this guy faces the death penalty for changing his religion. Also shows how very little has changed in Afganistan since the war.

Only thing I can say is that there are also Christians and others who convert to Islam, seemingly from choice. I know of one such case in fact. The difference is that here they're free to do so, whilst in many Muslim countries they wouldn't be.
Even in moderate countries like Morrocco, there are laws prohibiting the preaching of any other religion than Islam.

 

Nimrod's Apprentice what proof do you have that this was the case that women were treated that bad before islam or that it improved things , the main evidence we have from that time in arabia is islamic scripture which is biased in favour of islam .

you also have governments who are controlled by islam, who have lots of money to give people a false view of history, people who give a different view often end up dead
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/SStephan/intellectual_cesorship.htm

you have women like mohammeds first wife who was quite a powerful women before he married her, there are haddith where early muslim women complain about the freedom that women in a non muslim tribe have .
the persians which were next door had women admirals and generals so did north africans in some cases these women fought islamic conquest .

also islam supported slavery and sex slavery, mohammed had hundreds of slaves and sex slaves these people had very few rights and could be bought and sold and had to have sex with their owners .

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/SStephan/slavegirls.htm

 

Violence is everywhere people's opinions are different from the norm,
~It's a really messed up world.

For some reason people get pretty angry when what they think is
true isn't the same as your views.

My stepfather, for example, is an extremely militant christian,
and he gave me quite a thwacking when he found out I'm Muslim.
Luckily, I don't live there anymore...

 

Johnny, your posts are so biased and so blasphemous. Muhammed did not have hundreds of slaves for his bidding. That is ridiculous. You can take your faith freedom links and shove them far into some dirty orifice of yours. I remember you using that bullshit, half truth of website to make your statements over a year ago.

Get a life.

 

I disagree, I personally know Muslims that HAVE to practise their faith out of fear of being beaten or killed, but not many non-muslims know of this. I think this is a good topic for discussion.

 

Nah Its true Johnny, but I never said muslims treated women worse. I just said they took a conservative approach whereas pre-muslim Arabia was not at all like that. I wasn't speaking of the Persians, because they are another race with another religion and culture. All I said was to counteract the various brothels and prostitutes its not that bad. I did say the only job for a woman, I meant a lay woman. Or not of royal blood, or a leaders daughter. The elite always have ways around things. Im talking about the mass base of women. In the deserts of Arabia these women were whores. The Persians only went as far as Babylon and northern Arabia. It is true that the Muslims supported sex slavery. Only because it was a giant enterprise in that area already. There would be alot of people that went out of money if you were to destroy the institution completely right away.

Muhammed wanted to sway things away from this slowly. I suggest you lookup classic arab culture before Islam.

 

cosmic butterfly mohammed had 28 personal slaves and at times several hundreds , he bought and sold people had a black guy called the ship who carried all his luggage , all this Ive posted about in the past .

when we talked before you showed that for someone who claims to have come from a islamic background you know very little about islam , you were not able to disprove what faithfreedom.org says and in the 5-6 years that I have been posting there I havnt seen a muslim poster who has.

the sources as you should know are islamic sources, sahih haddith and the koran, if islamic scripture paints a poor picture of mohammed how bad must he have been when you consider that islamic scripture was written by muslims in the first place .

I dont have much time to post at the moment but wish you all well

 

Also there are lots of people who pretend to be Catholic or Christian and they dont even believe in God. If they did their family would reject them, and people would look down upon them. Mormons too...

 

I dont think there are as many as who have to pretend to be muslim , I used to be a morman when I left no morman got mad at me and wanted to thump me let alone kill me, when I meet mormans they just give me a sort of sad look like they feel sorry for me .

I could go to my old church and tell them why I thought joseph smith was a fake and I wouldnt be beaten up , I dont think a ex-muslim could do that in a mosque .

as far I know there are no states that jail or kill you for stopping being a christian or a morman , but thats quiet widespread with islam , as is killing people who put the case that other belief systems are true .

algeria brings in law to stop muslims converting ....if I did some digging I could find simular laws in lots of islamic majority countrys
http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/060321/2006032108.html

I can also find cases of people being killed by their family in the west for converting .

and as I say I know people personally who have to pretend to be muslim wear hijab go on hajj and they think the religion is false so how the hell do you know who really believes in it .

does it matter if you can get people to put up a front of belief ?

I find this interesting in that Ive talked to people who have told me that when say their parents or family are around they will defend islam verbally but its just out of fear of their reaction or being disowned .

so really how do you know whose who

 

It just seems like you make muslims and islam a living Hell. It really isnt so bad. It is not that dramatic. Yes there is horrible situations, but there is also good in Islam to that is happening everyday.
Christian religions also had their ugly days. Days of punishing and killing people for different beliefs. Islam is just behind and needs to catch up with the evolution of this world.
I do not understand why you spend so much time denouncing Islam when you are not even from that background. I see where Mughal is coming from because he was brought up as Muslem..Anyway you should check out the cult forum and the thread about Mormons.

 

Yeah, dmittedly there's been a popular trend in history
for Muslim to form "Muslim" States to rule themselves.
Most of them are both corrupted and antiquaited now,
though~ Yes, it's really messed up when you live in one
if you're not a Muslim.
It's just like communism. It doesn't turn out really well if
the people in the Communized state AREN'T communists.
You really have to think that their intentions were good,
though; albeit many laws are probably products of that
corruption.
...On the whole, though, the most corrupted "Muslim States"
are those that have suffered the most western interference.
Go figure.
It's like Africa- people can get a little defensive.
Did you know that you're still considered a local hero in
Ghana for the murder of a white man?

Really, it's just a sad world....

 

“It is not lawful for you (to marry other) women after this, nor to change them for other wives even though their beauty attracts you, except those (captives or slaves) whom your right hand possesses. And Allah is Ever a Watcher over all things.” Surah 33:52


Well this is in islamic holy writings... it is kind of silly. I mean come on, a view that promotes slavery and possession of woman as objects doesn't get that all is one and one is all... it doesn't get much of anything. I stand by my view that sufis, some whom live in awareness of the one consciousness (allah), promote the path of love and religious tolerance and having nonviolent pretty neat practices.... It is far out. Horray for sufism... The rest of islam is filled with all sorts of religous and spiritual elitism, war themes, and passages like this.

So why are you attack Johnny? I mean I don't agree with everything he says... but it says it right there in the holy book... so is it really that hard to believe that the founder of the religion might have followed this practice?

 

I am just sick of people spewing biased bullshit. The Bible is filled with reference to slavery and sexism as well. Go do a search yourself. Neither religion is better. Its just a religion conceived by mans mind not true GOD essence.

Deuteronomy 21:10-14: "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her [i.e. rape her or engage in consensual sex], and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her."

Genesis 16:1-2: "Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai."
bullet Genesis 30:3-4: "And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her. And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her."
bullet Genesis 30:9-10: "When Leah saw that she had left bearing, she took Zilpah her maid, and gave her Jacob to wife. And Zilpah Leah's maid bare Jacob a son."

Leviticus 25:44-46: "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."
"And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money [property]."

Exodus 20:17"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's."


Colossians 4:1: "Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven."

When the Lord has pity on Jacob and again chooses Israel and settles them on their own soil, the aliens will join them and be counted with the house of Jacob. The house of Israel will take them and bring them along to its place, and possess them as male and female slaves on the Lord's soil, making captives of its captors and ruling over its oppressors. (Isaiah 14:1-2 NAB)

And the LORD said to Moses, 'You and Eleazar the priest and the family leaders of each tribe are to make a list of all the plunder taken in the battle, including the people and animals. Then divide the plunder into two parts, and give half to the men who fought the battle and half to the rest of the people. But first give the LORD his share of the captives, cattle, donkeys, sheep, and goats that belong to the army. Set apart one out of every five hundred as the LORD's share. Give this share of their half to Eleazar the priest as an offering to the LORD. Also take one of every fifty of the captives, cattle, donkeys, sheep, and goats in the half that belongs to the people of Israel. Give this share to the Levites in charge of maintaining the LORD's Tabernacle.' So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses. The plunder remaining from the spoils that the fighting men had taken totaled 675,000 sheep, 72,000 cattle, 61,000 donkeys, and 32,000 young girls. (Numbers 31:25-35 NLT)

1 Corinthians 11:5

And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head - it is just as though her head were shaved.


1 Corinthians 14:34-35

As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.


Ephesians 5:22-24

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.


1 Timothy 2:9 (Response)

I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes


1 Timothy 2:11-12

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.


1 Timothy 2:15

But women will be saved through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

 

Well yeah the old testmant has got some pretty sick shit in it, there's no deny that.


However Jesus's true teachings in which he wanted his tantric lover and wife Mary Magdelan to take over the church and have authority after his going on the cross, were messed with by his other disciples... and eventually all the progress that Mary, Thomas, and the gnostic bunch made in some directions concerning women, homosexual, sexual mystic practices, drug use and so on... were all destroyed by the catholic church that wanted to use Jesus's message to control the masses through perverted it into what has become mainstream chirstian... they got rid of the doctorine of reincarnation, the sex and drug pracitices, teachings that god is everything and everywhere as well as the transendant creative princible and superintelligent being beyond the personal... take out mystical suggestions... make it more male dominated and get rid of women's role in the church, and on and on and on.


I am a personally close friend of Jesus, and I am meditating on a picture of him and tuning in a message directly from him regaruding women, here goes.

"Hi I am here. Women and men are one heart of love"

 

Following is a letter written to Dr. Laura Slesinger. I thought it was appropriate to post this here as I feel that it indirectly touches on many important issues that have arisen in this thread. Also, true statements can be used devisive ways. I think that Cosmic Butterfly has a point; consider that it might be wrong to prejudge anyone because of how they are labeled.



Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you so much for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18: 22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

A) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Leviticus 1: 9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

B) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21: 7. In this day & age, what would be a fair market price for her?

C) I know I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15: 19-24). The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

D) Leviticus 25: 44 states that I may own slaves, both male & female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

E) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35: 2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

F) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree, can you settle this?

G) Leviticus 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20 or is there some wiggle room here?

H) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Leviticus 19:27. How should they die?

I) I know from Leviticus 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

J) My uncle has a farm. He violates Leviticus 19:19 by planting two crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton & polyester blend). He tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev. 24: 10-16). Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws (Lev. 20: 14)?

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging."

-Your loyal fan.


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