Where did everything come from?What is the proof? Big Bang

So, if that is your arguement, the obvious answer is that it has always been there, why does nothing have to preclude something? It doesn't.

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Ok then.... the core matter has that makes up the universe has always been here, the universe that we percieve today is just a manipulation of that matter ​

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I don't need to.... turn on your television, de-tune it and watch the static.... a good percentage of that static is residual radiation... and guess where that radiation comes from ​

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Incredibly relevant, if a being(s) can create something from nothing, why would they apply time, and the effects of time on their creations? All matter is transient by nature.... why would a creator that is infinite, not apply the same laws of his own existance to his universe? If the soul is immortal then eventually we will all see the death of the universe, and the hope off all life and all that was disapear....... bit of an odd plan if you ask me, be a good show tho'.​

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Abrianhic texts often speak of Gods plans for the "end of the world". In fact, most major pantheons has an "armageddon" tale among it's teachings... yet nothing about the fact that, without divine intervention, good or bad, this universe will slowly burn out and die. Or is there something in my readings that I missed? ​

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Nothing cannot preclude something or anything because it isn't there it isn't existed!​

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Come on! Ok, what was that core matter?​

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I found no proofs, no answers for my questions.​

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No, read the title of the thread again it is about (Where did everything come from? What is the proof? Big Bang) it isn't about (Why would your God(s) create an earth where life was only ever planned to be a temporary, passing, phase?) nor about (if a being(s) can create something from nothing, why would they apply time, and the effects of time on their creations?)​

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Why when the man (creator of the computer) doesn't apply the same laws of his own existence to his inventions? Why the computer doesn't have a soul like him?​

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When Allah proved that Quraan is his word, then he said that he is eternal, not created etc, to find an answer for how did God exist, Myself, I think you have to believe in a God (God's existence) in the first place, and when you believe in a God you must have evidences or something that make you believe that he is the true God (you know there are many Gods which people believe in, Allah, Jesus, etc, so after we knew who is the true God with proofs and evidences then we have to look for what does that God that you believed in said about how did he exist?​

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Dear Oz, each religion believes in a God, each of them is giving you the plan of God, we should in the first place ask ourselves who the real God is? To know which plan is the true one? Allah for example talked about this in Quraan why did he created us, what happened etc, but this is irrelevant to my topic and I will think to write a thread about it, maybe someday.​

may Allah bless you​

Peace and love ​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

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Exactly...there has to be nothing, or something.....therefore the obvious answer was that there always was something ...... there never was a time when there was nothing.... simple, no? ​

Who knows? Dark matter? The scientific community are discovering new "parts" of what make up our universe on a daily basis....... pick an element, until we invent a time machine, or witness the birth of a universe that mirror's our own exactly, we'll never know ​

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Then you didn't understand my answer ​

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You don't think the reason(s) a god would destroy his creations, or you can blame time for it's destruction, if you like ........ could possibly provide why he/she created them in the first place? Interesting, if i were to pray to a god, it's one of the first questions i would ask...but that's cool, happy to let this train of thought derail ​

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We dont' need to create a computer with a soul.....if we want to create something we a soul we can (mostly) easily do it...... many already do... they are called children ​

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I have no interest in wether allah, yehweh, shiva or the tooth fairy is the "true god" I'll find that out for myself one day, shortly after they hammer the last nail in the coffin i imagne.​

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Your religion dictates that your god is the real, and the universe follows his plan...... please don't presume that all religions preach the same, or all individual's believe the same. As individuals we all percieve the universe around us in different ways..... so maybe, just maybe, your god is wrong and there are many gods, and many plans at work at once ​

 

I think banging my head against a wall is more fruitfull than trying to argue with someone who thinks the proof for a book is the book itself.

 

Oz!
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Exactly , and that something was God, Allah, the eternal, who created the universe, day and night, etc
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Allah knows ​

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When a person say that he found no proof in Quraan I say:
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Quraan: Do they not then think deeply in the Quran, or are their hearts locked up (from understanding it)?
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Matthew 13:13". . . They seeing, see not; and hearing, they hear not, neither do they understand"
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Quraan: We will show them our signs in the universe, and in their ownselves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Quraan) is the truth. Is it not sufficient in regard to your Lord that He is a Witness over all things?''
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'' And this Quraan is not such as could ever be produced by other than Allah (Lord of the heavens and the earth)''
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Quraan: Whenever there came to them a Messenger with what they themselves desired not - a group of them they called liars, and others among them they killed.
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Quraan: And if the truth had been in accordance with their desires, verily, the heavens and the earth, and whosoever is therein would have been corrupted! Nay, We have brought them their reminder, but they turn away from their reminder.
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Quraan:The revelation of the Book (this Qur'ân) is from Allâh, the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. Verily, in the heavens and the earth are signs for the believers.
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And in your creation, and what He scattered (through the earth) of moving (living) creatures are signs for people who have Faith with certainty.
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And in the alternation of night and day, and the provision (rain) that Allâh sends down from the sky, and revives therewith the earth after its death, and in the turning about of the winds (i.e. sometimes towards the east or north, and sometimes towards the south or west etc.,), are signs for a people who understand. These are the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, which We recite to you (O Muhammad) with truth. Then in which speech after Allâh and His Ayât will they believe? Woe to every sinful liar, who hears the Verses of Allâh (being) recited to him, yet persists with pride as if he heard them not. So announce to him a painful torment! And when he learns something of Our Verses (this Qur'ân), he makes them a jest. For such there will be a humiliating torment. In front of them there is Hell, and that which they have earned will be of no profit to them, nor (will be of any profit to them) those whom they have taken as Auliyâ' (protectors, helpers, etc.) besides Allâh. And theirs will be a great torment…This (Qur'ân) is a clear insight and evidence for mankind, and a guidance and a mercy for people who have Faith with certainty. Or do those who earn evil deeds think that We shall hold them equal with those who believe (in the Oneness of Allâh Islâmic Monotheism) and do righteous good deeds, in their present life and after their death? Worst is the judgment that they make… And on the Day that the Hour will be established, on that Day the followers of falsehood (polytheists, disbelievers, worshippers of false deities, etc.) shall lose (everything)…This Day you shall be recompensed for what you used to do…Then, as for those who believed (in the Oneness of Allâh Islâmic Monotheism) and did righteous good deeds, their Lord will admit them to His Mercy. That will be the evident success. But as for those who disbelieved (it will be said to them): "Were not Our Verses recited to you? But you were proud, and you were a people who were Mujrimûn (polytheists, disbelievers, sinners, criminals etc)." ...And the evil of what they did will appear to them, and they will be completely encircled by that which they used to mock at! And it will be said: "This Day We will forget you as you forgot the Meeting of this Day of yours.And your abode is the Fire, and there is none to help you." This, because you took the revelations of Allâh (this Qur'ân) in mockery, and the life of the world deceived you. So this Day, they shall not be taken out from there (Hell), nor shall they be Yustâ'tabûn i.e. they shall not return to the worldly life, so that they repent to Allâh, and beg His Pardon for their sins
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Quraan: And how many a sign in the heavens and earth they pass by, while they are averse there from (i.e. yet they turn away from them).
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I continue in other post…
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!
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Oz!​

But let me tell you something, if you invented something, you can destroy it after few years, it is yours, it is up to you, and you have the utter freedom to do whatever you want with it, because you are the owner. I can live in a house temporarily then I can destroy it and build another big new house, it is my land I own it I will do whatever I want. I can build a new big house on this space of land which I own it or to make a hut that's up to me.

See, that means a creator that is infinite, does not need to apply the same laws of his own existence to his universe =)

No dear brother, many women and men cannot produce children because they are infertile,
Quraan: …He renders barren whom He wills
Quraan: And We cause whom We will to remain in the wombs for an appointed term, then We bring you out as infants
Accordingly we cannot create a soul or produce something with a soul concerning your example by children, Allah give us the soul and to the children.

Dear Oz, the point isn't about you have interest or no, the point is,

What if you will find out that truth when it is too late, there will be no use, actually you don't know when you will die, just make a step right now, my deepest sincere best wishes, it really doesn't matter if it will take years, because it really deserves it, because what if there is an eternal life (Hell-Paradise) so it is a big deal, and in such journey we should be patient, don't give up fast and to be objective. Some people just read theories and assumptions from those who they like their belief and read their proofs and it is enough for them! They don't give the other beliefs a chance; rather, they don't like to read about the opposite belief of their in details! What about searching more, i.e. to have a firm belief about is there God or not? What if there is a God and he wants you to believe in him? Or maybe there is a God and he doesn't want anything from the creatures, Etc try to find out the truth, think a lot, such things really deserve it.
Quraan: What ! Did you then think that WE had created you without purpose, and that you would not be brought back to US ?
If there is a proof of God's existence and a proof that he wants us to follow a particular religion then it is better to do so.
Quraan: Certainly, We have brought to them a Book (the Quran) which We have explained in detail with knowledge, - a guidance and a mercy to a people who believe. Await they just for the final fulfillment of the event? On the Day the event is finally fulfilled (i.e. the Day of Resurrection), those who neglected it before will say: "Verily, the Messengers of our Lord did come with the truth, now are there any intercessors for us that they might intercede on our behalf? Or could we be sent back (to the first life of the world) so that we might do (good) deeds other than those (evil) deeds which we used to do?" Verily, they have lost their ownselves (i.e. destroyed themselves) and that which they used to fabricate (invoking and worshipping others besides Allah) has gone away from them.

Quraan: And warn (O Muhammad) mankind of the Day when the torment will come unto them; then the wrong-doers will say: "Our Lord! Respite us for a little while, we will answer Your Call and follow the Messengers!" (It will be said): "Did ye not swear before that there would be no end for you ?).​

Quraan: Until, when death comes to one of them, he says: "My Lord! Send me back, "So that I may do good in that which I have left behind!" No! It is but a word that he speaks, and behind them is Barzakh (a barrier) until the Day when they will be resurrected… "Were not My Verses (this Quran) recited to you, and then you used to deny them?" They will say: "Our Lord! Our wretchedness overcame us, and we were (an) erring people. "Our Lord! Bring us out of this; if ever we return (to evil), then indeed we shall be Zalimoon: (oppressors, unjust, and wrong-doers, etc.)." He (Allah) will say: "Remain you in it with ignominy! And speak you not to Me!" Verily! There was a party of My slaves, who used to say: "Our Lord! We believe, so forgive us, and have mercy on us, for You are the Best of all who show mercy!" But you took them for a laughingstock, so much so that they made you forget My Remembrance while you used to laugh at them! Verily! I have rewarded them this Day for their patience, they are indeed the ones that are successful… "Did you think that We had created you in play (without any purpose), and that you would not be brought back to Us?" So Exalted be Allah, the True King, La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), …And whoever invokes (or worships), besides Allah, any other ilah (god), of whom he has no proof, then his reckoning is only with his Lord. Surely! Al-Kafiroon (the disbelievers in Allah and in the Oneness of Allah, polytheists, pagans, idolaters, etc.) will not be successful. And say (O Muhammad SAW): "My Lord! Forgive and have mercy, for You are the Best of those who show mercy!"​

Quraan: And (remember) the Day when the Zalim (wrong-doer, oppressor, polytheist, etc.) will bite at his hands, he will say: "Oh! Would that I had taken a path with the Messenger ( Muhammad). "Ah! Woe to me! Would that I had never taken so-and-so as a friend! "He indeed led me astray from the Reminder (this Quran) after it had come to me. And Shaitan (Satan) is ever a deserter to man in the hour of need." And the Messenger (Muhammad) will say: "O my Lord! Verily, my people deserted this Quran (neither listened to it, nor acted on its laws and orders).​

Quraan: Do they then wait for anything other than that the angels should come to them, or that your Lord should come, or that some of the Signs of your Lord should come (i.e. portents of the Hour)! The day that some of the Signs of your Lord do come, no good will it do to a person to believe then, if he believed not before, nor earned good (by performing deeds of righteousness) through his Faith. Say: "Wait you! we (too) are waiting."​

It is up to you brotherOz
Quraan:''… your duty is only to convey (the Message), and on us is the
Reckoning.'' ''Then, if they turn away, your duty is only to convey (the message), in a clear way'''' So remind them, for you are but a remembrancer. You are not a dictator on them '' '' you are not at all a warder over them''

Quraan: There is no compulsion in religion.​

Quraan: And say: "The truth is from your Lord." Then whosoever wills, let him believe, and whosoever wills, let him disbelieve.​

Very true, and he gave proofs for that.

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Did I write such thing? You probably misunderstood me when I said: each religion believes in a God, each of them is giving you the plan of God, we should in the first place ask ourselves who the real God is? To know which plan is the true one?I meant:Each religion believes in a God(different God, Jesus, 3 gods but 1, Allah etc), each of them is giving you the plan of God (i.e. the plan of the Muslims' God is different from other religions' God [their God's plan is different from the Muslims' God]), we should in the first place ask ourselves who the real God is? To know which plan is the true one?​

In such case, every religion who claims that it is following the real god or gods should bring its proofs.

Peace and love​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

 

Cerberus
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No, isn't the proof for a book is the book itself, the proof is inside the book. Read what the book say what the proofs it presents, best wishes.
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Peace and love.
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!
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Your view assumes that god can do just that. And while we're looking for universal beginnings, what about divine beginnings? How did god come to be if you can't get something from nothing? If you say he was always there, why can't we say the universe was always there?
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I've heard the argument "god created himself" many times. Of course humans didn't create ourselves. We are a product of logical forces of nature. The universe? Who knows? Again, if god can create himself, why can't the universe?

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Again, I think you're treating human existence and the beginning of the universe too close to the same thing. One thing you aren't considering is if matter has always existed. If matter has always existed, and merely gone through cycles of implosions and big bangs, then CN can exist, and does. Either that, or there's no need for CN. That's assuming matter has always been around. You assume god has always been around, what's the difference?
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Dear FreakerSoup ​

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Dear, according to the human mind, something cannot come from nothing, right! But the universe is existed, we are existed, we may ask how is that? Accordingly, that points that this sentence something cannot come from nothing or phrase isn't right! But, concerning this phenomenon (something comes from nothing) why it doesn't repeat again? there was someone who always claims that he the only one who can do this! who can make(something comes from nothing) he stated that he is an eternal, he was always existed, he isn't created, he is the only one with such characteristics, He doesn't need to be created because he is perfect, he doesn't need to have a beginning, He claimed that even before Darwinism theory or evolution, he gave proofs, and he repeated that (something comes from nothing) when Mary was pregnant with Jesus (peace be upon them), ​

Quraan:​

'' ...O Mary, indeed Allah gives you the glad tidings of a Word [Be! And he was! - i.e. Jesus] from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary… …she said: O my Lord!, how shall I have a son when no man has touched me? he said: ''so (it will be) for Allah creates what he wills, when he has decreed something, he says to it only: ''?Be" and it is.​

The story of Mary the virgin woman, the story of Jesus the Quraan testifies to it, Bible, history, non- Christian historians etc, yeah you may denied it, but if you can deny or refute Allah's proofs, or if there isn't any gaps or someone who refutes your belief with evidences, then, be atheist, let me quote to you some relevant quotes,​

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Man cannot be alive without soul? Who created the soul? I think the soul is an enough evidence of the Lord's existence, [here is a link where some Muslims 're trying to talk about the spirit and Cerebrum under the light of the Holy Quraan, but I don't agree with everything is written there] our dreams when we sleep is evidence too...​

He Allah claimed that he created such an amazing brain and mind for us.​

Quraan :{ it is He who has created for you hearing, sights and hearts. Little thanks you give} I am so sorry Lord when they don't just give little thanks, but when some of your creatures deny your creation and attributed to someone or something else ​

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As I stated: there are people claiming, that Jesus is God, others, Allah is God, others, Brahma, Vishnu, Siva etc, yet the truth is one, we should in the first place ask ourselves who the real God is? Who is the real God or Gods? Then we can know how did he/they exist? What did that God stated about how did he exist, did he say that he created himself? Or he was always there, an answer which is hard for creatures like us to understand because our mind and comprehension and understanding is limited as Allah stated, myself, I think it is impossible to assume that we understand God [His existence- his mighty- perfection- His eternity etc] completely.​

I am not forcing you to anything, it is totally up to you dear brother​

Pure and sincere love and Peace ​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

Nothing is a human fallacy designed to understand something. In our minds, for 'anything' to exist we must have a 'nothing' which contrasts it. That doesn't mean that nothing 'exists'. It is beyond the limit of our understanding (or at least, we don't have the language/logic required to communicate it). In that sense I agree with catstevens. Then again : if that is the case, 'creation' is also a fallacy. It implies that everything has always existed, but is 'rearranged' in accordance to certain, seemingly chaotic, princibles. In a sense, the universe has a mind of it's own. To me, the entirety (also a human fallacy but I need to use it to communicate) of the univese is god. However in a scaleless universe, even a tiny bit of bacteria can be 'everything'.

 

chameleon_789​

my comment is the same one in post # 49 + #11, nice to see yahere chameleon =)​

Pure and sincere love and Peace ​

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Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

All the assumptions made in this thread are basing the big bang on the physics of earth.

My theory is that the universe has existed forever, it has no beginning, it has no end.

 

Your theory. is there a proof, However,: The Goal is Did God create this universe, or not. Myself: I believe God has existed forever, it has no beginning, it has no end.​

Peace and love​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

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Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

We are at a stage where speculation and opinion are acceptable. It won't last forever, science will rise and god will fall.

 

King Parrot

If there isn't God there isn't Science =) God is the Creator.

Peace and love​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

I think a better question if you're comparing science to god, is where does consciousness begin and end? If our base 'ingredient' is energy, that means when energy is organized in a certain way it can become 'aware'. If that's the case, and you don't seperate god from energy, the possibility for gods existance from a scientific perspective seems far more tangible.

 

See, that's why most religions really irk me. Instead of presenting credible information or facts, they simply state god is everything, god creates everything and expect people to swallow that as an answer. It's as logical and mature as schoolyard banter. Science is only in it's relative infancy. Everyday we understand our universe more and more, and are able to put facts forward that prove our theories and usually disprove different facets of religion. What has Islam or Christianity proven?

Let me guess? God created all? God is all?

Well it's rubbish, it's like talking to a brick wall.

 

I suspect that from a religious persons perspective, science is the brick wall and god is the plant working its way through it. In any case, I can't forsee any time in the future where science will 'disprove' god (although I will admit, it can and has disproved many religious texts). Science and religion will get to a point where they can't progress until certain viewpoints change. Both make the mistake of taking things far too literally. They are both communicatable abstractions of the same thing. Neither is 'more right' than the other, science simply has the upper hand because it's based on math and logic, something many people (whether they like to admit it or not) worship as the ultimate truth. Funny, considering zero wasn't even invented until the 12th century, and old mathematicians used to consider any number below zero an illusion.

 

Already, I think you’re off to a bad start. Just what is “everything” and why does it need to come “from” something? And wouldn’t this “something” that “everything” came from itself be apart of “everything” and would therefore need to come from “something” as well? If this is the case, then we could argue thusly:

1. Everything must come from something
2. God is a part of “everything” (belongs in that category)
3. Therefore God must come from something

So perhaps a better question to ask is why all this stuff is here, since to ask where everything came from is to beg the question by assuming that everything must “come from.” And it should be plainly obvious that neither the theist nor the atheist believes that everything must come from “something” or “somewhere.”

I may not be all that versed in science, but I do know enough to know that the “Big Bang” and “Evolution” are not synonymous. Nor does one entail the other. One can, for example, believe in the Big Bang without believing in evolution, and vice versa.

So then what follows from this? Absolutely nothing meaningful. Only that chairs don’t fall from exploding trees, and that earthquakes don’t produce computers. But we’re still left with the question of if any of the above states of affairs are possible. I mean, we may know that none are actual, but that doesn’t answer the question of their possibility? But anyway, what has this got to do with the universe and your case that the universe must come from something? You seem to be saying here that the universe cannot come from chance but earlier you seemed to be saying that the universe cannot come from nothing. These are two entirely different cases, unless your claim here is that nothing is the same as chance, which seems to me to be nonsensical.

And as a side note, if what you’re trying to refute here is evolution, then let me point out that what you’re presenting here is an OVERLY simplistic and wholly mistaken view of it.

The problem is that none of your analogies show something coming from nothing. Nor do they explain why being an atheist necessarily entials that one believe something came from nothing. A chair coming from an exploding tree is an example of something (a chair) coming from something (a tree and explosion). Same goes for the analogies about cars, computers and burgers.

Now I say this not because I’m some sort of mole working for the atheist, but because misguided arguments in the form of popular apologetics is what contributes to the negative view many atheist have toward theists. And of course, that just reassures them that they’ve chosen the more “reasonable” position.