Are conservatives mentally/intellectually inept?

One thing I know is that there is group of global elitists who are moving us towards a fascistic one word government. The world is indeed rapidly changing. The question is, under whose guidance and control? People's belief system is shaped around manipulation through the media and public school system, which work in conjunction with the government that is essentially owned by the multinational corporations. The primary function of the media and public school system is to mold the minds of people in a way beneficial to the Elite's nefarious agenda.

This is taken from a statement by the Rockefeller Education Board:

"In our dreams...people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present educational conventions [intellectual and character education] fade from our minds, and unhampered by tradition we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning or men of science. We have not to raise up from among them authors, educators, poets or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians, nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen, of whom we have ample supply. The task we set before ourselves is very simple...we will organize children...and teach them to do in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way."

There are a lot of things that are pushed on us as being "good" and "progressive," and many people accept this without looking beyond superficialities. World government is constantly being sold as being all about peace and prosperity, but of course it's not. Just look who's heading this system. So when people talk about change and progression, under whose control? That of a big, all-powerful government that is working to manipulate what you believe, of course.

I am all for people's right to do whatever they choose, as long as they aren't putting others in harm's way. I don't think it's the government's responsibility to mold my worldview for me. I'd rather do that myself, not via some corrupt, overbloated government with an agenda to make us into a bunch of bumbling idiots.

It needs to be understood that there is a difference between what most common people believe liberalism to be, versus how it is used by the establishment. Understand that our liberal leaders are not liberals like you are, they only pretend to be. They are really globalists. The same thing goes for so-called conservatives, who operate under the same doctrine of globalism.

The establishment Right uses their propaganda about being "tough on terror" to win their reactionary followers over, while the establishment Left aims for bleeding heart's heart strings to sell them on a lie. It's always "for world peace," "for mother nature" or "for the children." Or is that simply what they want you to think?

I still don't understand why people find it necessary to cling to the Left/Right paradigm, which only serves to confuse things. The people controlling things are not liberal or conservative, they only use these labels to divide and control the masses. I've already stated this numerous times, but I can't stress it enough!

To say that if you're not a liberal, you must be some pro-Bush warmonger is just ridiculously stupid. Loving peace and freedom has nothing to do with an idiotic label like liberalism. The Left/Right system is nothing about ideology, it's all about command and control and divide and conquer.

That's all!

 

I don't see myself as part of a so-called left-right paradigm. I think it is ok to align yourself with the universal idea of liberalism as long as you don't buy into the so-called liberalism rat is talking about.

The problem I have with the divide and conquer theory is that I don't see how it can apply to nations which are predominantly conservative. I think there are enough people smart enough to see that the liberalism being sold is not liberalism at all but simply rightism that is a little over to the left.

 

I would say America is far more to the Left than it is the Right. Not everyone who voted for Bush is a conservative. Keep in mind, Bush isn't even a conservative himself, he simply plays one. Government has never been bigger and had more power than it does now under Bush. True conservatism believes in a limited government with limited power (hence the term conservative), which is the total opposite of what we have now.

The globalist system is based on Leftism, as Leftism is Socialism. Socialism embraces world government and is anti-sovereignty. Big government is a product of Socialism, so to say America is Right-leaning, simply because we have a president who poses as a conservative, is a misconception. America, in my opinion, is a socialist nation in every way, and it has been for quite some time.

Socialism is being used to usher in this globalist system, as taxpayer money is being cut from government programs, and in turn being redirected towards the construction of an Orwellian, high-tech police state/control grid.

 

Aristartle

“In case you hadn't noticed, Pressed_Rat can post for himself. He doesn't need you to keep posting for him”

I don’t usually have to put in explanations like this because most people that come to the forum are honest, Rat is dishonest, quite simply he lies (as in this case)

As you have told me very clearly you cannot be bothered to look through peoples past post to find out about them, and many that come here just don’t know about people’s pasts.

I feel it’s kinder that rather than people have to go through many posts just to find out about Rats being lying to them, it is easier to inform people right away.

Foreknowledge is to be forewarned. (unless you are Bush when foreknowledge doesn’t make a difference)

Yours

Balbus

 

Rats attack on what he calls the Left/Right paradigm is a sham.

Rat is himself a right winger who has said that he thinks the Republicans are too much to the left. What he does support as far as I can tell (he doesn’t like to actually discuss it) is a form of right wing nationalistic libertarianism.

Rat says that people should abandon the Left/Right paradigm and unite, but over what and to do what?

Over right wing libertarianism and to build a society based on right wing libertarian policies?

I’ve asked him this several times and he has always evaded answering the question (although he often claims to have which is another lie) and has even become abusive.

But he is documented, as claiming that right wing libertarian policies (a system that he has called ‘true capitalism’) are the only ones that he believes ‘the conspiracy’ fears.

He is correct that if we all followed him there would be no Left/Right divide, but only because everyone would be on the Right.

Now given the fact that he thinks left wingers, socialists, communists and anarchists are all working knowingly or unknowingly for the devil worshippers. And that if they continued to be left wingers, socialists, communists and anarchists after being told they were evil doers, and therefore become knowing worker for the ‘forces of darkness’ and so evil themselves. Then as a socialist (a pragmatic one but still a socialist) and someone that would continue to oppose the right wing, I get the feeling that I would find things rather uncomfortable under Rats brand of right wing ‘national unity’.

 

There is certain theme in American thought, a desire to simplify things to ‘yes or no’, good or bad, with us or against us. This I believe has led to a viewpoint amongst many Americans that the US ultimately cannot be criticised.

Think about it if someone only has two choices ‘good’ or ‘bad’ then when such people think of the US it is most likely they will think ‘good’.

This belief in American ‘goodness’ means that even when a US policy does things that look ‘wrong’ it can only mean that it did it for a higher purpose. From the treatment of the native Americans to the Iraqi Occupation, there is a belief in some quarters of the American public that see such actions as ultimately leading to good since otherwise the US wouldn’t have done them. It isn’t logical but belief systems usually aren’t, but it is comforting which belief systems usually are.

The US government and elite even gives the American people ‘good intentions’ to believe in. They give them ‘good’ goals and the slogans to go with them. These aims also portray the American people as the guardians of the light and the champions of civilisation. So there was the destruction of the ‘evil empire’ and the scourge of ‘communism’, as one American I talked to commented a lot of ‘bad shit’ might have happened in the Cold War but the objective was still righteous. Then there was the ‘War on Drugs’ which kept the torturers and right wing paramilitaries trained in the cold war in a job. Now there is the ‘War on Terror’ and as another American right winger argued Iraq might not have had anything to do with 9/11 but it was still part of the scheme to end Islamic terrorism.

 

Ok, I don't wish for this to become another "pressed rat debate" thread. And I am over being so aggressive on the subject...because i've now heard it all and its not gonna shock me. And though I disagree with rat on so many things, I think we have similar interests, that is to speak out against tyranny. But (Now speaking to rat) I think the above is a huge example of how you seem to fail to make a distinction between true liberalism and liberal-rightism (which is the best term i can come up with at the current time).

Lets see:
- Increasing legislation of personal freedoms (this may include anything from marijuana use to abortion)
- Legislation based on religious, or conventional morality as opposed to promotion of choice
- Removing legislation from large corporations and the wealthy in favour of a so called "free market" ie. non socialistic class division
- Capitalism, and the proposed superiority of capitalism, and its spread throughout the world through globalisation. (Note this has nothing to do with socialism and is obviously right wing)
- Policies which favour a flourishing economy as opposed to social justice and environmental conservation
- The dumbing down of the masses through deception and manipulation of the media
- An over patriotic adherance to so called superior "Western" or "American" values (depending on what country) in global diplomacy. (Globalisation or not, its still blatant nationalism)
- A widespread insult to the intelligence of the general public from leadership
- A widespread acceptance from the general public that politicians are always going to be lying scumbags and its hopeless to fight against it.

These dominant trends in the US and Australia, which are perpetuated by the two dominant political parties and a majority of the public, are characteristically Right. Are you simply refusing to see outside of the left/right paradigm yourself and ignoring the simple fact that true liberals do not operate within the same conservative framework that dominates our culture?

I think its quite possible for a liberal to exist and label themselves as a liberal without falling victim to the Right/Hard Right paradigm (a much more fitting name ). Like I said, its a universal idea, an expression of language. NOT a political movement. Same thing applies to anarchism.

 

Lying in a field

Well said and I can certainly agree with you in your condemnation of those ‘dominate trends’ in some sections of western society.

Cheers

Balbus

 

you guys are pathetic you waste too much time trying to label rat as what you think he is. I have a hella good feeling that he knows his political stance loads better then any of you guys who know him through the internet do.

You guys are wasting too much time just bitching and moaning and disagreeing/putting people down for their opinions.

Whats it accomplish telling rat that hes a right winger? whats it accomplish putting your own definitions on what a right winger even is? whats it accomplish pretending to act like you know everything just to win a stupid fucking argument?

you guys make me sick.

 

Uh, in this thread at least i've done none of those things except disagree....

Isn't that an inevitable part of human interaction?

And you're wrong little man, Rat self confessedly doesn't have a political stance, HA! Sorry im being dumb, its late. I think you should the posts a little more carefully though...

If ANYONE else tells me off for "attacking" rat, i'll blow a fucking gasket and start crying like a little bitch....I think i've conducted my arguments quite well so far, and without malicious intent....I just disagree is all, so piss off.

BTW, lost highway was such a disturbing movie...why dont you watch something more family oriented, like....The labyrinth with David Bowie.

 

Like i said.. a soldiers POV does not entirely matter.. it won't change the situation they are in or there orders.. i agree with you.

I was more talking about the reasons 'we' went to war and the situation in the middle east... Some could think that Bush brought down the twin towers.. others may think Saddam has WMD stored in the mountains.. I really just meant we have the time and the information they don't have access too .. They obviously are preoccupied with the ACTUAL situation.. They can't always raise a point and have access to info, to see if what they think is true or just a media manipulation.. They can't 'research' there POV. So imho there POV could be stunted by the fact they have other things to do.

Certainly with the time we have we can expand and inform ourselves a hell of a lot better..if we so wish... or [wich is sad] we [some] don't.

 

when i said rat has a political stance, that means hes active, he has views, hes not limiting himself to the labels that have been defined in this thread.

labryinth was great, but lost highway was amazing, and david lynch is a fucking genious.

 

Matthew

It is like Vietnam where a lot of people went out there really thinking they were 'saving' them from communism and therefore thought they would be welcomed as saviours

They leant diffrently but only on their return did many become political.

 

Jedi

Rat has attacked everyone’s politic except right wing libertarianism which he says is the best system possible.

He says that ‘bleeding heart’ liberals, left wingers, socialists, communists and anarchists are working for the devil worshipping forces of darkness. And tells people that they are idiots and morons if they continue to have those views.

If you want me to point you out a few post where this has happened I can, it is a very long list.

But maybe you can tell me why he would come to a politics forum and try and hid the fact that he’s views are those of a right winger by continually trying to claim he is not?

What is he trying to hid?

 

Balbus.

Stop being a dick, and stop posting for Rat.

 

Yep, I like lynch too, lost highway freaked the hell outta me though. I loved blue velvet, thats one of my favourite movies...dennis hopper is awesome.

Um...still not attacking rat, but if you buy that "he doesn't ascribe to labels" then you're just not thinking.

 

i cant disagree with that...

post some threads if you must, i just think this bashing is pointless. anyways i was talking about you guys putting a label on his political stance not what he says about people who live in a dreamworld.

and yes blue velvet was amazing, have you seen mulholland drive? the scene in the club silencio is one of my favorite scenes from ANY movie. or have you seen the twin peaks movie? that one is hella intense.

 

Balbus,

I am not going to argue with you anymore, because arguing is stupid when it's not based on the topic at hand. It just keeps going around in circles as you continue to make the same false accusations about me and what I supposedly think. Besides, people see what a baby you are, so you end up making yourself look bad. You dig your own grave.

Unlike you, Balbus, I cite facts to back my claims. All you do is attack me and speak on my behalf like you know everything about me. You make false claims in attempt to discredit me, and people should be questioning your motives behind this behavior. You never make any attempt to refute my claims, and that's obviously because you don't have the answers. You don't have the facts. You attack me to divert attention away from your lack of knowledge over what is being discussed.

Your defense mechanism is to attack the messenger, never the message.

You are one of the biggest hypocrites I have ever encountered. You accuse me of attacking people, simply because I present evidence that is contrary to what you want to believe. It is you that is constantly attacking ME because of my views, which happen to differ from yours. I am not saying I haven't ever been guilty of this myself in the past, but you really take the cake.

I am through with you. Goodnight.

 

Uh...his accusations though they might be over-aggressive are very relevant to this thread.

I have refrained from attacking you...I'd like to hear your thoughts on my posts at least, I put a lot of thought into them.

 

Aristartle, “Stop being a dick, and stop posting for Rat”

LOL

Oh so eloquent

But are you not the person that doesn’t care?

You said you don’t care if you are lied too, don’t care if people don’t answer questions, don’t care if people make judgements when they don’t have the facts and you don’t care if people come to a debating forum and don’t debate.

For example on no evidence at all you accused me of being an “acclaimed” follower of communism who couldn’t put “two sentences” together about it then when the mistake was pointed out to you, you turned around and said you didn’t care if I was a communist or not and you were “unwillingness to debate the issue”.

I’ve already said that I think people deserve political honesty I think one of the problems with politics is that people are too accepting of being lied to. Many Americans as Inquiring Mind has points out still seem to believe the Iraq war was necessary, many don’t seem to care that they were lied to and are still being lied to. The thread seems to ask why?

Maybe we could get an insight into their thinking from you.

You don’t care if Rat is dishonest or even lies. Why?