The new Church

Church of Eternal Reality

The dogma is.

Reality has no beginning or end.
It was not created, built or manufactured.
It has always existed in one form or another.
And always will.

That's the only dogma required.
It relegates all previous religious ideas of an
omnipotent/eternal reality creating ***
to where that concept belongs. In the 'contradictory tray'

If a *** exists it can only be a thing evolved
within Eternal Reality.

This dogma in no way contradicts the idea that the
part of reality we inhabit called 'the observed universe'
is directed or has some direction.

This dogma contradicts nothing known to human beings.
Individual experience, scientific theory or observation.

 

Sounds kind of like the Tao.

 

your 'church' feels 'right' (i.e. correct/consistent with my own feelings AND observations). as does the tao and being nice to 'the little spirit that lives down by the creek'.

=^^=
.../\...

 

Themnax
Wellmet

This 'church' exists to shift a human preconception from
it's deep rooted position.

That preconception being that as all structures within the
observable universe have a 'life cycle'.
Then that which allows the existance of everything.
From lepton to the observable universe itself.
The arena that allows phenomena.
Must also have a life cycle.
A birth and death. A beginning and end.

The dogma offers an alternate and intuitive concept
without contradictions.
It needs no 'other' variables to sustain it.
[something a 'created' reality requires]
It needs no 'why' 'how' 'when' or 'WHO'

Occam

PS..And that little spirit that lives down by the creek may understand way
more than we do.
For only humans are so arrogant as to place bounderies on a reality we
barely percieve even with our shiny new toys.

 

"reality" is one of those words that I like to put in quotation marks for exactly that reason, with a question mark also.

 

Mati.

Reality is the totallity of everything.
What does not exist is not real and not part of reality.
For reality is the only thing that IS
The term 'nothing' cannot be applied.
For there is no place we can point to where there is nothing.
Even space is now understood to be a thing with properties.

This is as much sophistry as occam will engage in.. we all
understand the divide between existance and non-existance.
A thing is..[exists].. or is not. [does not exist].
There can be NO unreal/non-existant phenomena or
unreal/non-existant things with properties.
That is a contradiction.
Thus even the term 'a thing that does not exist' can only
'exist' as a concept in the minds of conscious beings that
invented an idea of something that IS not.

Occam has stated the dogma contradicts no human understanding.
This includes the definition of 'reality' [stated here and now]

Untill someone can show a contradiction.
Untill someone can show there is some confusion about the
concept EXIST.
And Reality, being the set of everything that exists.
That requires a question mark or 'quotation' marks.

That 'dogma' stands as is.

Occam

PS..We could wander into 'cogito ergo' if anyone wants to.
But that is covered.

 

"Reality has no beginning or end.
It was not created, built or manufactured.
It has always existed in one form or another.
And always will."
I've come to this conclusion some time ago after an acid trip that made me think about creation for a few hours. this conclusion wasnt only drug induced however, the next day i began to think about this as well and found this to be the only possible conclusion with all the the thoughts i already had. i like this idea

 

Smurfing..

Yah.. occam was a big fan of pure LSD way back.Had it slipped in under book covers from netherlands..Used to spend hours with headphones on in dark room listening to great music,, maybe also with variable strobe for lighting effects. Cant find it now in this anal retentive society.

But the 'dogma' as occam defines does not really need it.

The idea that reality was created just does not sit well.
Occams intuition says it is a weak explanation for what we observe.
An explanation given to us by other people, who have personal agendas.

Intuition, occam believes.. is our minds working overtime while we do other things. It pops up and says...hey 'listen to this.. it's cool'

Occam

 

Whats the point of giving an ineffectual god room to live? sounds like appeasement

 

Did you know....that...a lot of what you guys talk about goes WAY over my head?

I have a lot of unlearning to do.

 

Do you believe that 'the observed universe' has direction? Is *** participating in this? What do you say?

 

Thumontico

Which ineffectual god do you refer to?
And who are u to decide the parameters of such a thing?

Occam proposes nothing but how a concept called ***
could FIT into reality.
Instead of what religion does.. And u as well it seems

Trying to make reality fit into their idea of GOD

Occam

 

LiaF

Thats the most honnest thing occam has heard on this board
in ages.
You display 'in occams definition' great wisdom.

Occam

 

Thumontico

Does occam BELIEVE such?
lol, u really want to pin this down no?
But remember. Occam has 3 modes to describe the results
of understanding.
Knowing.
belief.
Non-belief.
They fit together based on rules to cover all information
known to occam.

The proposition 'a *** directs the part of reality we call the observed universe' Cannot be answered by occam for the data to confirm it is not available to occam. [and beyond human abillity to deny]
Thus the label 'agnostic' that relates to this question only.

But in occams heart?
His intuition?
[All those things that are not the powerfull tools called reason/logic.
But yet have their own power and purpose just as significant.
But as they are not definable methods. they cannot resolve to FACT.]

Da

Occam

This in no way alters occams position as an agnostic.
What he 'believes' he cannot claim as knowing/fact.
It is quite possible to hold 2 or even three positions on a concept.
All u need is a system that does not rely on absolutism.
That is..flexible and dynamic.
That is ..one that does not ALLOW fanaticsim or fundamentalism.

 

Occam, I couldn't have learnt of the insignificance of my own intelligence if it wasn't for those who have gone before me. And the same must apply to Occam.

Lets raise a toast to not knowing. (Lying in a field has a big warm smile on his face at the moment)

 

LiaF

Truely..
It so does apply.

Occam wishes he had but a fraction of the imagination/skill
of an Einstien.
Or but a part of the intuitive wisdom of the buddha.

Occam

 

In the year 2525
If man is still alive
If woman can survive
They may thrive
In the year 3535
Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lies
Everything you think, do, and say
Is in the pill you took today

In the year 4545
Ain't gonna need your teeth, won't need your eyes
You won't find a thing to chew
Nobody's gonna look at you

In the year 5555
Your arms are hanging limp at your sides
Your legs got nothing to do
Some machine is doing that for you

In the year 6565
Ain't gonna need no husband, won't need no wife
You'll pick your son, pick your daughter too
From the bottom of a long glass tube' Whoooa

In the year 7510
If God's a-comin' he ought to make it by then
Maybe he'll look around himself and say
Guess it's time for the Judgement day

In the year 8510
God is gonna shake his mighty head then
He'll either say I'm pleased where man has been
Or tear it down and start again

In the year 9595
I'm kinda wondering if man is gonna be alive
He's taken everything this old earth can give
And he ain't put back nothing

Now it's been 10,000 years
Man has cried a billion tears
For what he never knew
Now man's reign is through
But through eternal night
The twinkling of starlight
So very far away
Maybe it's only yesterday

In the year 2525
If man is still alive
If woman can survive
They may thrive
In the year 3535
Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lies
Everything you think, do or say
Is in the pill you took today ....(fading...)

 

In the year 7510
If God's a-comin' he ought to make it by then
Maybe he'll look around himself and say
Guess it's time for the Judgement day

 

Triumph..

Occam is more inclined to think we will leave this small and
beautifull world and reach out into the void. To find manysuch worlds
and make a great and colourfull history and..
One day we may come across that which set up the rules to allow
us to get to that very place.

And *** will say
"Thank myself, someone to talk to at last."

And maybe THAT is the meaning of life.

Occam

PS.. It is certainly more sane than sitting round
"basking in the glory of god"
What a fukin waste of 3 billion years that would be.

 

Now it's been 10,000 years
Man has cried a billion tears
For what he never knew
Now man's reign is through
But through eternal night
The twinkling of starlight
So very far away
Maybe it's only yesterday