What if we are all kidding ourselves?

About the one consciousness, a consciousness that is all, without seperation.

For me, I have no doubts... Because of science... So I trust mystical truth, as much as I trust when I drop a shoe it will fall to the ground because of gravity. I trust mystical truth MORE! why? It is a combination of three things.

1) Mystical knowledge through sadhana (the sceintific practice of introspective exploration)

I did many practices, psychedelics, meditation, guru, different yogas, mantra.... and the result of all this here now stuff... lead me to here now...

and eliminated doubt of the one consciousness

It is the most real thing in my experience, the one consciousness is a daily moment by moment mystical experience for me that lightens everything up and shines around me.... I have plunged into being a beginner in realizing this, having direct mystical knowledge... years ago, faith used to get me through the dry spots, faith in my previous mystical experience... Now thanks to the grace of the guru, I live in awareness of the one consciousness. I have plenty of karma to deal with, but doubt is not an issue

This experience of the one consciousness is so profound and so real to me... that if I have doubts about something it is how real the pain the back of my mouth is... sure its there, on one channel, but deeper, there is no time or space.


2) Scientific Knowledge through outer exploration

Quantum mechanics proves to me that there is one consciousness...

Reading the works of Amit Goswami
-Self Aware Universe
-Physics of the Soul


He convinced me, and with the readings total wiped away the remaining occassional doubts that stemmed from a personal interest in science... I am grateful to god for showing me quantum mechanics. It literally proves I AM, the one consciousness IS, we are ONE, ALL IS ONE!

3)Mystical miracle type "special" experiences

Signs and wonders, beyond the laws of physics miracles, Out of Body experiences, dreams in which realized beings speak to me, tuning in certain beings, amma's hug, meeting ram dass, etc. etc.



So the thing is, even if all kinds of things go bad and all, It will not cause doubt, it would probably cause my ego getting upset at the one consciousness... doubt is just gone in me.

It's dead.

 

About 4 years ago I had my very first psychedelic experience, and was completely dumbfounded. Ever since then I've spent much time trying to figure out what the hell happened to me. I went from psychedelic philosophy to mysticism to buddhism to hinduism. I suppose, although I have had a few experiences that seem to have proven to me the one consciousness(yoga, lsd), that it is the practices themselves that lead me to doubt. Especially bhakti. Althouh it seems that I have benefited greatly from it, I can't help but feel it is a placebo effect. I have no way of knowing. My rituals, if you can call them that, such as an occasional psychedelic experience, throw me off sometimes. It's easy to question the validity of the connection between psychedlics and the mystical experience. BUt, I guess thats all because of bad press, because the experience itself is enough to prove it to me. Sometimes, call me crazy, I like to think of LSD as an avatar of sorts, the way it arrived in this time and place, when things werent looking so good, and almost completely morphed our consciousness back to God. But like Krishna and Buddha, it only points the way, you need to make the effort yourself. I mean, the way things were looking in this country, we needed an avatar that would go straight to our heads. And that it did, and suddenly people wanted to find God, and create peace and love. I feel like you can't deny it. Maybe it wasn't an avatar in the true sense of the term, but it certainly had that effect on some people. I also think that certain people, Ram Dass for example, took it the right way and only benefited, but certain others(ken kesey and friends) turned it into this evil, immoral thing and caused a lot of chaos. I wish the spiritual side won. Don't get me wrong though, I don't believe in relying on drugs, but I do think one mystical trip can only benefit and lead you to bigger things like religion. But enough of this, my doubts have left me, my faith restored, and I am feeling quite unified...Peace.

From the Gita:

Although I am unborn and My transcendental body never deteriorates, and although I am the Lord of all sentient beings, I still appear in every millennium in My original transcendental form.
Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion--at that time I descend Myself.
In order to deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I advent Myself millennium after millennium.

 

LSD or very similar things such as psilocybin mushrooms have been known about for millenia, and used by shamans etc. In and of themselves, they don't necessarily give a 'mystical' experience. Thus, myself I don't think of LSD as an avatar.
Some - noteably Terrence Mckenna have claimed that a mushroom was in fact the Soma mentioned in the Rig Veda. For various reasons, I tend to discount this too.
My own view as one who took acid for the first time 30 odd years ago, is that it can be an 'initiation' for some people, but really of those who take it, only a small number seem to benefit. Or perahps in other cases, the disadvantages outweigh anything positive.
There are many problems with psycedelics. One of which is that they can propell one into experiences for which the being is not properly prepared. This can lead to several undesired results; there can be a kind of inflation, where someone decides on the basis of acid induced visions etc that they are enlightened, some become confused and just begin to think ALL drugs must be ok and then move onto coke or whatever, and some people get severe psychic traumas which can result in psycosis etc.
Once one has seen a certain amount with these things, it becomes superfluous to continue to use them. At least until one has assimilated any lessons one has to learn.

Tim Leary said that everything depends on 'set and setting' - setting is obvious - a nice place, no hassles, supportive company. 'Set' is the more elusive thing. It means really what is in your head when you take it. So if you read up on Buddhism say over sometime and fill your mind with Buddhist images and so on, there's a high chance you'll have a 'Buddhist' trip. Same with other things. If you are a person with a belief in a Personal God, like the bhakta, then chances are you'll have an experience slanted in that kind of direction. In general, that was Leary's line.
But, and it's a big but - what Leary's neat little formula misses out on is the fact that under the effects of LSD stuff can emerge from sub-conscious areas also. Not only the personal sub-conscious, but from a kind of Jungian collective un-conscious. For no apparent reason, one can suddenly find oneself in a place where everything looks Aztec, even if you know very little of the Aztecs. That's just an example - I've experienced all kinds of stuff over the years I used to take psychedelics. One can go from the middle ages to Hiroshima in a split second of consciousness.

It is several years since I took any, and I don't plan doing any soon - but I don't entirely rule it out either at some future point if I thought it would be useful.
On the whole, I think one is better off trying to find other routes into spiritual experiences - if that's what you're after. With drug things they come and go. 'Enlightenment' has a habit of evapourating over night.
And there's no doubt that the magnitude of LSD experiences can be such that it can leave a person 'spaced out' - not actually in touch with reality, but only an aspect of it, which, because of the nature of acid to intensify everything can easily look like more than it is.

Neem Karoli Baba told Ram Dass that LSD could allow one to 'enter the presence of Christ and bow down to Him.'
No more than that - and after the effects have worn off, or not long afterwards, one will have to leave that presence. If on the other hand one can learn to enter the presence of Christ without a drug, then you may well be able to remain in that presence - perhaps even forever. Or to re-enter it 'at will'.

It's worth remembering in regard to my comments about only a few getting benefit from LSD that back in the 60's and 70's millions of doses were distributed and taken by millions. Yet where are the millions of mystics or illuminates now? How many are now on a spiritual path?

 

Just to add a couple of other things I'd like to say about LSD etc -


First is that it is a fact that in some cases, psychedelic drugs can lead to an temporary or even momentary awakening of the Kundalini Shakti refered to by yogis. That might sound like a reason to take it, but one has to look at it with care.
In the course of awakening Kundalini through yoga sadhana, there is a gradual process. There is a kind of psychic growth and a balancing of the whole being that takes place by successive stages along with the gradual awakening and rising of Kundalini. This is necessary, because to suddenly switch this energy on at 'full power' would be like passing a 240volt current through a circut designed to cope with 12volts. In such a situation, all kinds of experiences can result. In some this leads to many bad effects.

Even some people who have done Kundalini yoga without ever taking acid have said that it has left them feeling mentally un-balanced, hearing voices etc. After they've experienced some rousing of Kundalini. So clearly, when yogis say one must proceed with caution and care and the right processes in all this, it is not to be taken lightly.

Also, I just want to emphasize that I don't think it is useful for many people to use these things. It really is playing with fire.
And many people are naturally turned toward the spiritual anyway. Introducing drugs into the equation may well just be an un-necessary complication. And although such things may appear to give a quick and concrete result, in the longer term this is often seen not to be the case.

 

I agree with you 100%. All I can say is that a few of my experiences on LSD have solidified my faith in God...gave me more of an idea of what it was I was after. I by no means look at psychedelics as a means to an end, but simply a tool to guide you to bigger and better things, like meditation or bhakti. I don't think I would have lasted as long as I have on this path if it weren't for certain trips I've had, so I cannot deny the benefit of them. When I first ate mushrooms I had no idea what I was getting into, and knew nothing of spirituality. I just dove right in, let it take over me, and humbly believe that they gave me a taste of the Universal. Wether they did or not, they cetainly drew me into being a better person morally and spiritually. My LSD experiences have shown me even more, and only encourage me to put more effort into spiritual matters. Even after a bad trip I once had...I woke up depressed and decided to set spiritual matters aside. After a while depression, alcohol and mindlessness set in. I was taught a lesson, and now I am back on the path. I have tripped again since then, and the trips have been quite positive. I guess what I am trying to say is that, for me personally, LSD is of great use to me when I am in doubt or catch myself falling off the path.

And to add another thing...A lot of what you just said about LSD is the same for religions in general. Compared to the millions that follow a religion, only a few may come out having gained anything at all. Some tend to take it the wrong way all together, and become deluded, causing all sorts of problems. It really isn't much different if you think about it.

 

Good trips - bad trips. Thats part of the thing really - you go up on acid, perhaps very high. But the being can't sustain it - so you go down again - lower than before perhaps, and have to pick yourself up and begin again. One can learn a lot from going through such things.

Really, what is wanted is a continuous and on-going 'experience' in life on a day to day level. Thats something one can't get from LSD. But as I said before, it can be a kind of initiation for some. My advice though would be always to treat these things with caution. And to be aware of the legal implications...

 

LSD and such will rip a hole and let you have a look, and can also fry your brain. Many in recent times have sought and found without this stuff.

 

It is truly sad that one has to rely on articificial means to gain some sort of "divine feeling", in my thinking , using anything other than God to attain a level of divine bliss is like cheating yourself, because you know that it is only a simple chemical reaction, similar to the reaction you get when you go after a base desire and get it fulfilled.

 

You see, the real question is what are you doing? Disciplining the mind, disciplining the body, disciplining the soul and finally reaching a level of self control, a level of spiritual siddhi, this is not something that you take on because you think this is cool... if you are doing it, you really have to do it. And when you really do it, who cares what the end result is going to be? Yes, it can be all pointless, but atleast at the end , you know that you have realized the truth - that it is pointless, "Oh, so this is all pointless, now i get it".

 

my only regret at death will be that i didnt bang more hot women.
"if I'm gonna get my nuts blown off for a word,,, my word is poontang."

 

How does one 'use God' to get realization?

 

GOD = One consciousness

One consciousness = everything in space and time, all beyond space and time.

Thus God is eveyrthing, thus when you are using drugs, sex, rock n roll, a cup of tea, staring at a candle, listening to music, dance, and so on...

It is all HERE NOW.

To me, a tantric yogi, all stimuli, all sensory experiences, all in the sensory world... is there for me to use in a ahimsa way to go push it beyond itself. use the sensory world to get beyond senses! Into it all, the one consciousness

 

Oh yea? then killing is also a divine activity right? why don't we all just go around and shoot people on sight? why ahimsa? just go crazy with that AK 47. You see, knowing everything is divine consciousness is different, it does not mean that you don't discriminate between good things and bad things. It means that one gains wisdom and finally when he leaves this body does not come back to this world. It does not mean that he should go back to his animal ways and do whatever pleases his mind.

 

you are very close to seeing the Cosmic Joke Of It All

 

The cosmic joke is here now within you...

ahisma is just my dance...

You can be aware of the dance of good and evil let's say... but good and evil are not fixed stationary things that can be written down and applied to every situation in a scripture like way in my view... A general rule of thumb for me is good is something that brings things together into the one consciousness realization; bad is something that increases seperation thus the root of all suffering, pain, war and conflict, it is the mayic force. Then there are all kinds of neutral things.

It all depends on the situation when it comes down to ethics in my view.... on the mistakes in religion is making strict moral codes and imposing them on people... I feel there is a better way then this.


This is why I an a tantric yogin in a ahimsa way... there are some tantrics that say eat meat, (I am a veggie) most tantric do practice ethical codes, which are general guidelines.