post your most disturbing vegetarian facts!

They guy is obviously a troll, why is anyone even acknowledging his post.

 

Excuse me I am NOT a troll, I've been here for ages.

There are people who CANNOT thrive without meat. This is a known fact.
Many people can, and more power to them.

 

Irongoth,

Where are your facts?

Peace & Love

 

Well, I'd like to say go talk to the dude, but I haven't seen him since 1993.

 

Is it possible that there was another reason why he was sick, such as a nutrient defiecency because of an improper diet? Or perhaps he had some rare condition? Your story is considered anicdotal at best and hearsay at worst. Maybe present some evidence such as scientific evidence on why a proper vegetarian diet would cause serious health problems such as the ones you mentioned.

In fact, I did a little research and those symptoms can be explained by a nutrient deficeincy, such as a deficeincy of copper, essential fatty acids, B5, B6, or zinc. Check out the website: http://1stholistic.com/Nutrition/hol_nutr-def-symptoms.htm
These result from poor diet, not being vegetarian.

Peace & Love

 

Looking at the planet as a device for turning sunlight into food; it takes 20 times as much sunlight to make a calorie of meat as it does to make a calorie of veg. Vegetarianism is more efficient.

 

Well, considering that he was from a vegetarian family (dad was a Hindu), that he consulted with nutritionists etc. and went about it in an INTELLIGENT way as a college educated person.... it wasn't cause he decided to live off salad and cheetos.

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/vegemyths1.html

 

You are assuming he listened to what the nutritionist said. Do you know everything he ate? No, and I don't either. So let's not assume that he didn't have a nutrientional defeciency. We don't know. My point is that proper vegetarian diet won't cause health problems...

Peace & Love

 

I know you've been here for ages but you posted that in the vegetarian forum hoping to get a 'reaction'.

 

"Stephen Byrnes, PhD, RNCP, enjoys robust health on a diet that includes butter, cream, eggs, meat, whole milk, cheese, and liver. He is the author of Diet & Heart Disease: Its NOT What You Think and Digestion Made Simple (Whitman Books; 2001); and The Lazy Person's Whole Foods Cookbook (Ecclesia Life Mana; 2001)."

The author of that paper was Dr. Stephen Byrnes, and he certainly did follow his own diet; he also died a couple years ago from a massive stroke. He was 40 years old. Robust health indeed!

/edit

 

Whilst I believe that just about everyone can survive without meat, there is a possibility that if you take 1000 people, or 10,000 people, one of them won't have the right body to survive without meat.

 

Veggies die earlier than meat eaters? That made me laugh.

Numerous studies and tests have shown that vegetarians are less at risk of heart disease, cancer, and strokes than meat eaters, while vegans are at even LESS risk, than vegetarians.

 

Back on topic I guess...

I touched on this subject in another thread, but I'll give a little further explanation in this one.

About 89% of the cows in the US are infected with Bovine Leukemia Virus (BLV). Numerous studies have shown the BLV can infect the bodies and cells of other animals (including humans). Researchers at UC Berkeley have conducted studies in their local community and have determined that 74% of their test subjects had already been infected with the BLV. Exposure to the virus came most likely came from the consumption of infected dairy and meat products. Since one hamburger can be made up of a thousand cows or more, and dairy products from all of the cows are mixed together in large vats, it's pretty hard to avoid exposure without eliminating these things from your diet.

To elaborate further on how serious this threat really is, it should be noted that populations which consume more meat and dairy have higher incidences of leukemia. Dairy farmers and cattle-related occupations also have statistically higher cases of leukemia and lymphoma.

Funny how 100,000 new cases of leukemia (30,000) and lymphoma (70,000) are diagnosed every year, yet the cause is always "unknown".

How's that for disturbing?

 

And the Western World has heart disease as its biggest killer. Its all from animal products, but I guess the propoganda of the meat and dairy industry is fooling people.

Hey Fifty9, that signature is great!

 

Actually Linus Pauling and others have stated consumption of animal fat has dick all to do with it. Believe it or not the vast majority of arterial plaque is made of unsaturated (veg) fat.

inbloom - be that as it may for some strange reason y'all still die earlier. Maybe it's cause I have more muscle in my right thigh than you do in your entire body.

 

IronGoth, I don't disbelieve your friend's story... but have you heard anything since? Did he even get better since he started eating meat again?

You know, Doctors are still human, and make mistakes...and could have misdiagnosed him...

I guess, it just strikes me as confusing/odd....because I've heard of doctors literally becoming upset with patients, who go veggie/vegan....but I've heard of plenty who are extremely supportive of vegan/veggie diets.

When I told my doctor I was going vegan, she gave me a double thumbs up, and stated that it would probably help a great deal of my ailments...which it did.

And, I agree with whoever said that...it doesn't matter how he was raised... it doesn't mean he ate as healthy as he should have, period.

Everyone has SOME common sense on what's a bad diet.... but still, people will pig out on junk 24/7, regardless of whether or not they know it's unhealthy for them.

But, none the less... I truly believe, that just everybody is different, anyway. Just like some people are lactose intolerant, and others aren't.... you know?

Either way, please don't assume that all veggies end up unhealthy like that.

 

Um...WHAT?!

Where the hell are you getting your "facts" from?!!

This is straight from the American Heart Association, regarding cholesterol/HEART DISEASE:

You get cholesterol in two ways. Your body makes some of it, and the rest comes from cholesterol in animal products that you eat, such as meats, poultry, fish, eggs, butter, cheese and whole milk. Food from plants — like fruits, vegetables and cereals — doesn't have cholesterol. Some foods that don't contain animal products may contain trans fats, which cause your body to make more cholesterol. Foods with saturated fats also cause the body to make more cholesterol.

SATURATED fat....is NOT good for you. So what are you even going on about?!

Yes, you can just as easily develop heart issues, if you don't watch what you eat, even if you're vegan or veggie.... THROUGH trans and saturated fats.

your statement above, was just....whacked, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Apples+Oranjes: PLEASE

MYTH #6: Saturated fats and dietary cholesterol cause heart disease, atherosclerosis and/or cancer, and low-fat, low-cholesterol diets are healthier for people.

This, too, is not a specific vegetarian myth. Nevertheless, people are often urged to take up a vegetarian or vegan diet because it is believed that such diets offer protection against heart disease and cancer, since they are lower or lacking in animal foods and fats.

Although it is commonly believed that saturated fats and dietary cholesterol "clog" arteries and cause heart disease, such ideas have been shown to be false by such scientists as Linus Pauling, Russell Smith, George Mann, John Yudkin, Abram Hoffer, Mary Enig, Uffe Ravnskov and other prominent researchers.50 On the contrary, studies have shown that arterial plaque is primarily composed of unsaturated fats, particularly polyunsaturated ones, and not the saturated fat of animals, palm or coconut.51

Trans fatty acids, as opposed to saturated fats, have been shown by researchers such as Enig, Mann and Fred Kummerow to be causative factors in accelerated atherosclerosis, coronary heart disease, cancer and other ailments.52 Trans fatty acids are found in such modern foods as margarine and vegetable shortening and foods made with them. Dr Enig and her colleagues have also shown that excessive omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acid intake from refined vegetable oils is also a major culprit behind cancer and heart disease, not animal fats.

A recent study of thousands of Swedish women supports Dr Enig's conclusions and data. It showed no correlation between saturated fat consumption and increased risk for breast cancer. However, the study did show, as did Enig's work, a strong link between vegetable oil intake and higher breast cancer rates.53

The major population studies that supposedly prove the theory that animal fats and cholesterol cause heart disease, actually do not prove it upon closer inspection. The Framingham Heart Study is often cited as proof that dietary cholesterol and saturated fat intake cause heart disease and ill health. Involving about 6,000 people, the study compared two groups over several decades at five-year intervals. One group consumed little cholesterol and saturated fat, while the other consumed high amounts. Surprisingly, Dr William Castelli, the study's director, said:54
"...the more saturated fat one ate, the more cholesterol one ate, the more calories one ate, the lower the person's serum cholesterol ... we found that the people who ate the most cholesterol, ate the most saturated fat...ate the most calories, weighed the least and were the most physically active."

The Framingham data did show that subjects who had higher cholesterol levels and weighed more ran a slightly higher chance for coronary heart disease. But weight gain and serum cholesterol levels had an inverse correlation with dietary fat and cholesterol intake. In other words, there was no correlation at all.55

In a similar vein, the US Multiple Risk Factor Intervention Trial, sponsored by the National Heart and Lung Institute, compared mortality rates and eating habits of 12,000+ men. Those who ate less saturated fat and cholesterol showed a slightly reduced rate of heart disease, but had an overall mortality rate much higher than the other men in the study.56

Low-fat/cholesterol diets, therefore, are not healthier for people. Studies have shown repeatedly that such diets are associated with depression, cancer, psychological problems, fatigue, violence and suicide.57 Women with lower serum cholesterol live shorter lives than women with higher levels.58 Similar findings have been noted in men.59

Children on low-fat and/or vegan diets can suffer from growth problems, failure to thrive, and learning disabilities.60 Despite this, sources from Dr Benjamin Spock to the American Heart Association recommend low-fat diets for children! One can only lament the fate of those unfortunate youngsters who will be raised by unknowing parents taken in by such genocidal misinformation.

There are many health benefits to saturated fats, depending on the fat in question. Coconut oil, for example, is rich in lauric acid, a potent antifungal and antimicrobial substance. In addition, coconut contains appreciable amounts of caprylic acid, also an effective antifungal.61 Butter from free-range cows is rich in trace minerals, especially selenium, as well as all of the fat-soluble vitamins and beneficial fatty acids that protect against cancer and fungal infections.62

In fact, the body needs saturated fats in order to properly utilise essential fatty acids.63 Saturated fats also lower the blood levels of the artery-damaging lipoprotein (a);64 are needed for proper calcium utilisation in the bones;65 stimulate the immune system;66 are the preferred food for the heart and other vital organs;67 and, along with cholesterol, add structural stability to the cell and intestinal wall.68 They are excellent for cooking, as they are chemically stable and do not break down under heat, unlike polyunsaturated vegetable oils. Omitting them from one's diet, then, is ill-advised.

With respect to atherosclerosis, it is always claimed that vegetarians have much lower rates of this condition than meat-eaters. The International Atherosclerosis Project of 1968, however, which examined over 20,000 corpses from several countries, concluded that vegetarians had just as much atherosclerosis as meat-eaters.69 Other population studies have revealed similar data.70 This is because atherosclerosis is largely unrelated to diet; it is a consequence of ageing.

There are things which can accelerate the atherosclerotic process, such as excessive free radical damage to the arteries from antioxidant depletion (caused by such things as smoking, poor diet, excess polyunsaturated fatty acids in the diet, various nutritional deficiencies, drugs, etc.), but this is to be distinguished from the fatty-streaking and hardening of arteries that occurs in all peoples over time.

It also does not appear that vegetarian diets protect against heart disease. A study on vegans in 1970 showed that female vegans had higher rates of death from heart disease than non-vegan females.71 A recent study showed that Indians, despite being vegetarians, have very high rates of coronary artery disease.72 High-carbohydrate/low-fat diets (which is what vegetarian diets are) can also place one at a greater risk for heart disease, diabetes and cancer due to their hyperinsulemic effects on the body.73 Recent studies have also shown that vegetarians have higher homocysteine levels in their blood.74 Homocysteine is a known cause of heart disease. Lastly, low-fat/cholesterol diets, generally favoured either to prevent or treat heart disease, do neither and may actually increase certain risk factors for this condition.75

Studies which conclude that vegetarians are at a lower risk for heart disease are typically based on the phony markers of lower saturated fat intake, lower serum cholesterol levels and HDL/LDL ratios.

Since vegetarians tend to eat less saturated fat and usually have lower serum cholesterol levels, it is concluded that they are at less risk for heart disease. However, once one realises that these measurements are not accurate predictors of proneness to heart disease, the supposed protection of vegetarianism melts away.76

It should always be remembered that a number of things factor in as to whether a person gets heart disease or cancer. Instead of focusing on the phony issues of saturated fat, dietary cholesterol and meat-eating, people should pay more attention to other, more likely factors. These would be trans fatty acids, excessive polyunsaturated fat intake, excessive sugar intake, excessive carbohydrate intake, smoking, certain vitamin and mineral deficiencies, and obesity. These things were all conspicuously absent in the healthy traditional peoples whom Dr Price studied.

50. (a) J Yudkin. Sweet and Dangerous (Bantam Books, NY), 1972, 85-102; (b) L Pauling. How to Live Longer and Feel Better (Avon Books, New York), 1985; (c) A Hoffer and M Walker, Putting It All Together: The New Orthomolecular Nutrition (Keats Publishing, CT), 1995, 82-84; (d) R Smith and E Pinckney. The Cholesterol Conspiracy (Warren Greene, Inc, IL), 1991; (e) G Mann (ed). Coronary Heart Disease: The Dietary Sense and Nonsense (Veritas Society, London), 1993; (f) MG Enig. Know Your Fats (Bethesda Press, MD), 2000, 76-80; (g) U Ravnskov. The Cholesterol Myths (New Trends Publishing, Washington, DC), 2000; (h) WE Stehbens. Coronary heart disease, hypercholesterolemia, and atherosclerosis. I. False premises. Exp Mol Pathol, 2001, Apr;70(2):103-19; (i) WE Stehbens. Coronary heart disease, hypercholesterolemia, and atherosclerosis. II. Misrepresented data. Exp Mol Pathol, 2001, Apr;70(2):120-39.
51. CV Felton and others. Dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids and composition of human aortic plaques. Lancet, 1994, 344:1195.
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53. A Wolk and others. A prospective study of the association of monounsaturated fat and other types of fat with risk of breast cancer. Arch of Inter Med, 1998, 158:41.
54. W Castelli. Arch Int Med, 1992, 152:7:1371-2.
55. H Hubert and others. Circulation, 1983, 67:968.
56. Multiple Risk Factor Intervention Trial: Risk factor changes and mortality results. J Amer Med Assoc, 1982, 248:12:1465. v57. (a) The Lipid Research Clinic's Coronary Primary Prevention Trial Results. I. Reduction in incidence of coronary heart disease. J Amer Med Assoc, 1984, 251:359; (b) BA Golomb. Cholesterol and violence: Is there a connection? Ann Int Med, 1998, 128:478-87; (c) MF Muldoon and others. Lowering cholesterol concentrations and mortality: A quantitative review of primary prevention trials. Brit Med J, 1990, 301:309-14; (d) GN Stemmermann and others. Serum cholesterol and colon cancer incidence in Hawaiian Japanese men. J National Canc Inst, 1981, 67:1179-82; (e) DL Morris and others. Serum cholesterol and cancer in the hypertension detection and followup program. Cancer, 1983, 52:1754-9; (f) SJ Winawer and others. Declining serum cholesterol levels prior to diagnosis of colon cancer. A time-trend, case-control study. J Amer Med Assoc, 1990, 263:2083-5.
58. (a) D Jacobs and others. Report of the conference on low blood cholesterol. Circulation, 1992, 86:3:1046-60; (b) B Forette and others. Cholesterol as risk factor for mortality in older women. Lancet, 1989, 868-870.
59. IJ Schatz and others. Cholesterol and all-cause mortality in elderly people from the Honolulu Heart program: a cohort study. Lancet, 2001, 358: 351-55.
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61. (a) MG Enig. Know Your Fats, 114-115; (b) MG Enig. Lauric oils as antimicrobial agents: theory of effect, scientific rationale, and dietary application as adjunct nutritional support for HIV-infected individuals, in Nutrients and Foods in AIDS, RR Watson, editor (CRC Press, FL), 1999, 81-97.
62. S Fallon and M Enig. Nourishing Traditions, 15-18.
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Most of you vegie types aren't such cause of health concerns - it's basically a cult thing cause you think mistreating the little baby animals is cruel.