More ISKCON wierdness

Bhaskar, with all the discussion going on about SP, I was expecting you to chime in somehere along the line.

 

i think bhaskars point might of been that prabhupada was very critical of so many other teachers and missions but the irony is in his own back yard of iskcon, similar activities were going on

 

Definitely acknowledged...my comment to Bhaskar was a bit of friendly sarcasm...no offense intended.

 

"the best defense is a good offense" vince lombardi

 

I admit to getting a guilty kick out of that post.

 

Baba himself could be more transparent - a proper police investigation should be done. Until then, a shadow will be over Baba.
But it's the sheer number of allegations from different sources, along with interviews I've seen with many devotees that make me think he is guilty as hell.

Prabhupada may have been incapable of acting to control senior devotees, but there is no question of any wrongdoing on his part.

Anyway - we've been here before as regards Sai Baba.
It's for people to make up their own minds about him.

I also think that to compare Baba's poor imitation with Krishna's Lila is not very productive.

 

If you believe advaita, then Baba is every bit as divine as Krishna and indeed baba lila, Bhaskaralila, BillBlackBlakelila is all Krishna lila only. Whichever way you develop bhakti does not matter. Kenaapi upaayena manah Krishne niveshayet - by any possible means, let your mind dwell on the lord.

 

Neither Krishna Lila nor BBB lila approves of taking sexual advantage of young boys - or indeed, engaging in stage magic and claiming it as a Divine miracle.

 

Everything is a miracle.

 

Then the word is redundant.

 

Yet, it is Krishna lila only. Sarvam Krishnamayam jagat - everything in the world is Krishna. Where then is the question of anything not being Krishna lila?

Again, stage magic can be limited to a stage.

But what of Baba's picture in my living room that regularly manifests vibhuti, from across the world, in a town far form any other Hindus, let alone Sai bhaktas?

What of the honey that drips from similar pictures in my relatives' home?

And the sex charges have not been proved.

 

All words are.

 

So why persist in using them?

I don't actually think words are redundant. Their misuse is what creates confusion. Or to imagine that words alone can reveal truth.

 

Redundant: exceeding what is necessary or normal : [size=-1]SUPERFLUOUS[/size] b : characterized by or containing an excess; specifically : using more words than necessary

I don't think it is excessive to have a word that is symbolic of what life is. The word is part of the beauty of life.

 

I think you miss the point. A miracle, in my definition, is something which appears to contradict or go beyond the laws of nature as we understand them - stuff like turing water to wine, bringing back the dead, walking on water etc.

The existence of the world can from a kind of imprecise romantic point of view be called a miracle, but thats just the usual law-comformable world. So you'd then need to needlessly multiply terms further and come up with another term to describe events that go beyond that.

 

bill, are you saying vibhuti manifestations from a deity isn't a miracle? did you get angry at your ganesha murti for drinking all the milk?

 

Vibhuti manifestations, Ganesh drinking milk, yes - I'd call those miracles.

 

miracle: 1 : an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs
2 : an extremely outstanding or unusual event, thing, or accomplishment
3 Christian Science : a divinely natural phenomenon experienced humanly as the fulfillment of spiritual law

Existence itself is a miracle.

Don't needlessly see existence as anything less then miraculous. Defining something as 'mundane' ignores the divinity.

 

It's only a label in the end. I think one can talk about the world as mundane and see the beauty and so on. As I say, the thing about miracles for me (I don't care what the dictionary says) is that the word refers to something which is outside the usual laws of causality. A waterfall may be a mircale on one level perhaps, but it would be much more so if the water was flowing uphill.

 

He whose mind is still sees the world as a miracle.
He whose mind is full of thoughts seels the world as ordinary.

Tao Te Ching.