Mahanidana Sutta: The Great Discourse on Origination

Thus have I heard, Once the Lord was staying among the Kurus. There is a market town there called Kammasadhamma. And the Venerable Ananda came to the Lord, saluted him, sat down to one side, and said: 'It is wonderful, Lord, it is marvelous how profound this dependent origination is, and how profound it appears! And yet it appears to me as clear as clear!'


'Do not say that, Ananda, do not say that! This dependent origination is profound and appears profound. It is through not understanding, not penetrating this doctrine that this generation has become like a tangled ball of string, covered as with a blight, tangled like coarse grass, unable to pass beyond states of woe, the ill destiny, ruin and the round of birth-and-death.

'If, Ananda, you are asked: "Has ageing-and-death a condition for its existence?" you should answer: "Yes."

If asked: "What conditions ageing-and-death?" you should answer: "Ageing-and-death is conditioned by birth."

If asked: "What conditions birth?" you should answer: "Becoming conditions birth."

If asked: "What conditions becoming?" you should answer: "Clinging conditions becoming."

If asked: "What conditions clinging?" you should answer: "Craving conditions clinging."

If asked: "What conditions craving?" you should answer: "Feeling conditions craving."

If asked: "What conditions feeling?" you should answer: "Contact conditions feeling."

If asked: "What conditions contact?" you should answer: "Mind-and-body conditions contact."

If asked: "What conditions mind-and-body?" you should answer: "Consciousness conditions mind-and-body."

If asked: "Has consciousness a condition for its existence?" you should answer: "Yes."

If asked: "What conditions consciousness?" you should answer: "Mind-and-body conditions consciousness."

'Thus, Ananda, mind-and-body conditions consciousness and consciousness conditions mind-and-body, mind-and-body conditions contact, contact conditions feeling, feeling conditions craving, craving conditions clinging, clinging conditions becoming, becoming conditions birth, birth conditions ageing-and-death, sorrow, lamentations, pain, grief and distress. Thus this whole mass of suffering comes into existence.

Birth as a Condition

'I have said: "Birth conditions ageing-and-death", and this is the way that should be understood. If, Ananda, there were no birth at all, anywhere, of anybody or anything; of devas to the deva-state, of gandhabbas to the gandhabba state, of yakkhas to the yakkha state, of ghosts to the ghost state, of humans to the human state, of quadrupeds to the quadruped state, of birds to the bird state, of reptiles to the reptile state, if there were absolutely no birth at all of all these beings, then, with the absence of all birth, the cessation of birth, could ageing-and-death appear?' 'No. Lord.' 'Therefore, Ananda, just this is the root, the cause, the origin, the condition for ageing-and-death -- namely birth.

Becoming as a Condition

'I have said: "Becoming conditions birth" and this is the way that should be understood. If, Ananda, there were no becoming at all, anywhere, of anybody or anything; of devas to the deva-state, of gandhabbas to the gandhabba state, of yakkhas of the yakkha state, of ghosts to the ghost state, of humans to the human state, of quadrupeds to the quadruped state, of birds to the bird state, of reptiles to the reptile state, if there were absolutely no becoming: in the World of Sense-Desires, of Form or the Formless World, then, with the absence of all becoming, the cessation of becoming, could birth appear?' 'No. Lord.' 'Therefore, Ananda, just this is the root, the cause, the origin, the condition for birth -- namely becoming.

Clinging as a Condition

'I have said: "Clinging conditions becoming", and this is the way that should be understood. If, Ananda, there were no clinging at all, anywhere, of anybody or anything; of devas to the deva-state, of gandhabbas to the gandhabba state, of yakkhas of the yakkha state, of ghosts to the ghost state, of humans to the human state, of quadrupeds to the quadruped state, of birds to the bird state, of reptiles to the reptile state, if there were absolutely no clinging at all: sensuous clinging, clinging to views, to rite-and-ritual, to personality-belief, then, with the absence of all clinging, the cessation of clinging, could becoming appear?' 'No. Lord.' 'Therefore, Ananda, just this is the root, the cause, the origin, the condition for becoming -- namely clinging.

Craving as a Condition

'I have said: "Craving conditions clinging", and this is the way that should be understood. If, Ananda, there were no craving at all, anywhere, of anybody or anything; of devas to the deva-state, of gandhabbas to the gandhabba state, of yakkhas of the yakkha state, of ghosts to the ghost state, of humans to the human state, of quadrupeds to the quadruped state, of birds to the bird state, of reptiles to the reptile state, if there were absolutely no craving at all: for sights, sounds, smells, tastes, tangibles, mind-objects, then, with the absence of all craving, the cessation of craving, could clinging appear?' 'No. Lord.' 'Therefore, Ananda, just this is the root, the cause, the origin, the condition for clinging -- namely craving.

Feeling as a Condition

'I have said: "Birth conditions feeling", and this is the way that should be understood. If, Ananda, there were no feeling at all, anywhere, of anybody or anything; of devas to the deva-state, of gandhabbas to the gandhabba state, of yakkhas of the yakkha state, of ghosts to the ghost state, of humans to the human state, of quadrupeds to the quadruped state, of birds to the bird state, of reptiles to the reptile state, if there were absolutely no feeling at all: feeling born of eye-contact, ear-contact, nose-contact, tongue-contact, body-contact, mind-contact, then, with the absence of all feeling, the cessation of feeling, could craving appear?' 'No. Lord.' 'Therefore, Ananda, just this is the root, the cause, the origin, the condition for craving -- namely feeling.

'And so, Ananda, feeling conditions craving, craving conditions seeking, seeking conditions acquisition, acquisition conditions decision-making, decision-making conditions lustful desire, lustful desire conditions attachment, attachment conditions appropriation, appropriation conditions avarice, avarice conditions guarding of possessions, and because of the guarding of possessions there arise the taking up of stick and sword, quarrels, disputes, arguments, strife, abuse, lying and other evil unskilled states.

'I have said: "All these evil unskilled states arise because of the guarding of possessions." For if there were absolutely no guarding of possessions ... would there be the taking up of stick or sword quarrels, disputes, arguments, strife, abuse, lying and other evil unskilled states? 'No, Lord.' 'Therefore, Ananda, the guarding of possessions is the root, the cause, the origin, the condition for all these evil unskilled states.

'I have said: "Avarice conditions the guarding of possessions." For if there were absolutely no avarice ... would there be the guarding of possessions? 'No, Lord.' 'Therefore, Ananda, avarice is the root, the cause, the origin, the condition for guarding of possessions.

'I have said: "Appropriation conditions avarice ... attachment conditions appropriation ... lustful desire conditions attachment ... decision-making conditions lustful desire ... acquisition conditions decision-making ... seeking conditions acquisition ...

'I have said: "Craving conditions seeking." ... If there were no craving ... would there be any seeking?' 'No, Lord.' 'Therefore, Ananda, craving is the root, the cause, the origin, the condition for all seeking. Thus these two things become united in one by feeling.

'I have said: "Contact conditions feeling." ... Therefore contact is the root, the cause, the origin, the condition for feeling.

Mind-and-Body as a Condition to Contact

'"Mind-and-body conditions contact." By whatever properties, features, signs or indications the mind-factor is conceived of, would there, in the absence of such properties ... pertaining to the mind-factor, be manifest any grasping at the idea of the body-factor?' 'No, Lord.'

'By whatever properties the mind-factor and the body-factor are designated -- in their absence is there manifested any grasping at the idea, or at sensory reaction?' 'No, Lord.'

'By whatever properties, features, signs or indications of mind-factor is conceived of, in the absence of these is there any contact to be found?' 'No, Lord.'

'Then, Ananda, just this, namely mind-and-body, is the root, the cause, the origin, the condition for all contact.

Consciousness as a Condition

'I have said: "Consciousness conditions mind-and-body." ... If consciousness were not to come into the mother's womb, would mind-and-body develop there?' 'No, Lord.'

'Of if consciousness having entered the mother's womb, were to be deflected, would mind-and-body come to birth in this life?' 'No, Lord.' 'And if the consciousness of such a tender young being, boy or girl, were thus cut off, would mind-and-body grow, develop and mature?' 'No, Lord." 'Therefore, Ananda, just this, namely consciousness, is the root, the cause, the origin, the condition of mind-and-body.

Mind-and-Body as a Condition to Consciousness

'I have said: "Mind-and-body conditions consciousness." ... If consciousness did not find a resting-place in mind-and-body, would there subsequently be an arising and coming-to-be of birth, ageing, death and suffering?' 'No, Lord.'

'Therefore, Ananda, just this, namely mind-and-body, is the root, the cause, the origin, the condition of consciousness. Thus far then, Ananda, we can trace birth and decay, death and falling into other states of being reborn, thus far extends the way of designation, of concepts, thus far is the sphere of understanding, thus far the round goes as far as can be discerned in this life, namely to mind-and-body together with consciousness.

The Nature Of The Self

In what ways, Ananda, do people explain the nature of the self? Some declare the self to be material and limited, saying: "My self is material and limited"; some declare it to be material and unlimited, saying: "My self is material and unlimited"; some declare it to be immaterial and limited, saying: "My self is immaterial and limited"; some declare it to be immaterial and unlimited, saying: "My self is immaterial and unlimited."

'Whoever declares the self to be material and limited, considers it to be so either now, or in the next world, thinking: "Though it is not so now, I shall acquire it there." That being so, that is all we need say about the view that the self is material and limited, and the same applies to the other theories. So much, Ananda, for those who proffer an explanation of the self.

The Nature Of The Non Self

'How is it with those who do not explain the nature of the self? Some do not declare the self to be material and limited, nor do they say: "My self is material and limited"; some do not declare it to be material and unlimited, nor do they say: "My self is material and unlimited"; some do not declare it to be immaterial and limited, nor do they say: "My self is immaterial and limited"; some do not declare it to be immaterial and unlimited, nor do they say: "My self is immaterial and unlimited."

'Whoever does not declares the self to be material and limited, does not considers it to be so either now, or in the next world, nor does he think: "Though it is not so now, I shall acquire it there." That being so, that is all we need say about the view that the self is material and limited, and the same applies to the other theories. So much, Ananda, for those who proffer an explanation of the self.

'In what ways, Ananda, do people regard the self? They equate the self with feeling: "Feeling is my self", or: "Feeling is not my self, my self is impercipient", or: "Feeling is not my self, but my self is not impercipient, it is of a nature to feel."

Assuming The Existence Of The Self

'Now, Ananda, one who says: "Feeling is my self" should be told: "there are three kinds of feeling,k friend: pleasant, painful, and neutral. Which of the three do you consider to be your self?" When a pleasant feeling is felt, no painful or neutral feeling is felt, but only pleasant feeling. When a painful feeling is felt, no pleasant or neutral feeling is felt, but only painful feeling. And when a neutral feeling is felt, no pleasant or painful feeling is felt, but only neutral feeling.

'Pleasant feeling is impermanent, conditioned, dependently-arisen, bound to decay, to vanish, to fade away, to cease -- and so too are painful feelings and neutral feelings. So anyone who, on experiencing a pleasant feeling, thinks: "This is my self", must, at the cessation of that pleasant feeling, think: "My self has gone!" and the same with painful and neutral feelings. Thus whoever thinks: "Feeling is my self" is contemplating something in this present life that is impermanent, a mixture of happiness and unhappiness, subject to arising and passing away. Therefore it is not fitting to maintain: "Feeling is my self."

'But anyone who says: "Feeling is not myself, my self is impercipient" should be asked: "If, friend, no feelings at all were to be experienced, would there be the thought: 'I am'?" [to which he would have to reply:] "No, Lord." Therefore it is not fitting to maintain: "Feeling is not my self, my self is impercipient."

'And anyone who says: "Feeling is not my self, but my self is not impercipient, my self is of a nature to feel" should be asked: "Well, friend, if all feelings absolutely and totally ceased, could there be the thought: 'I am this?'" [to which he would have to reply:] "No, Lord." Therefore it is not fitting to maintain: "Feeling is not my self, but my self is not impercipient, my self is of a nature to feel."

'From the time, Ananda, when a monk no longer regards feeling as the self, or the self as being impercipient, or as being percipient and of a nature to feel, by not so regarding, he clings to nothing in the world; not clinging, he is not excited by anything, and not being excited he gains personal liberation, and he knows: "Birth is finished, the holy life has been led, done was what had to be done, there is nothing more here."

'And if anyone were to say to a monk whose mind was thus freed: "The Tathagata exists after death", that would be [seen by him as] a wrong opinion and unfitting, likewise: "The Tathagata does not exist after death", that would be [seen by him as] a wrong opinion and unfitting, likewise: "The Tathagata both exists and does not exist after death", that would be [seen by him as] a wrong opinion and unfitting, likewise: "The Tathagata neither exists nor does not exist after death." Why so? As far, Ananda, as designation and the range of designation reaches, as far as language and the range of language reaches, as far as concepts and the range of concepts reaches, as far as understanding and the range of understand reaches, as far as the cycle reaches and revolves -- that monk is liberated from all that by super-knowledge, and to maintain that such a liberated monk does not know and see would be a wrong view and incorrect.

The Seven Stations Of Consciousness

'Ananda, there are seven stations of consciousness and two realms. Which are the seven?

1) There are beings different in body and different in perception, such as human beings, some devas and some in states of woe. That is the first station of consciousness.

2) There are beings different in body and alike in perception, such as the devas of Brahma's retinue, born there [on account of having attained] the first jhana. That is the second station.

3) There are beings alike in body and different in perception, such as the Abhassara devas. That is the third station.

4) There are beings alike in body and alike in perception, such as the Subhakinna devas. That is the fourth station.

5) There are beings who have completely transcended all perception of matter, by vanishing of the perception of sense-reactions and by non-attention to the perception of variety; thinking: "Space is infinite", they have attained to the Sphere of Infinite Space. That is the fifth station.

6) There are beings who, by transcending the Sphere of Infinite Space, thinking: "Consciousness is infinite", have attained to the Sphere of Infinite Consciousness. That is the six station.

7) There are beings who, having transcended the Sphere of Infinite Consciousness, thinking: "There is no thing", have attained the Sphere of No-Thingness. That is the seventh station of consciousness.

[The two realms are:]
1) The Realm of Unconsciousness Beings and, secondly,
2) The Realm of Neither-Perception-Nor-Non-Perception.

'Now, Ananda, as regards this first station of consciousness, with difference of body and difference of perception, as in the case of human beings and so on, if anyone were to understand it, its origin, its cessation, its attraction and its peril, and the deliverance from it, would it be fitting for him to take pleasure in it?" 'No, Lord.' 'And as regards the other stations, and the two spheres likewise?' 'No, Lord.'

'Ananda, insofar as a monk, having known as they really are these seven stations of consciousness and these two spheres, their origin and cessation, their attraction and peril, if freed without attachment, that monk, Ananda, is called one who is liberated by wisdom.

The Eight Liberations

'There are, Ananda, these eight liberations. What they?

1) 'Possessing form one sees forms. That is the first liberation.

2) 'Not perceiving material forms in oneself, one sees them outside. That is the second liberation.

3) 'Thinking: "It is beautiful", one becomes intent on it. That is the third.

4) 'By completely transcending all perception of matter, by the vanishing of the perception of sense-reactions and the non-attention to the perception of variety, hinking: "Space is infinite", one enters and abides in the Sphere of Infinite Space. That is the fourth.

5) 'By transcending the Sphere of Infinite Space, thinking: "Consciousness is infinite", one enters and abides in the Sphere of Infinite Consciousness. That is the fifth.

6) 'By transcending the Sphere of Infinite Consciousness, thinking: "There is no thing", one enters and abides in the Sphere of No-Thingness. That is the sixth.

7) 'By transcending the Sphere of No-Thingness, one reaches and abides in the Sphere of Neither-Perception-Nor-Non-Perception. That is the seventh.

8) 'By transcending the Sphere of Neither-Perception-Nor-Non-Perception one enters and abides in the Cessation of Perception and Feeling. That is the eighth liberation.

'Ananda, when a monk attains these eight liberations in forward order, in reverse order, and in forward-and-reverse order, entering them and emerging from them as and when, and for as long as he wishes, and has gained by his own super-knowledge here and now both the destruction of the corruptions and the uncorrupted liberation of heart and liberation by wisdom, that monk is called "both-ways-liberated", and, Ananda, there is no other way of "both-ways-liberation" that is more excellent or perfect than this.'

This the Lord spoke. Ananda the Venerable Ananda rejoiced and was delighted at his words.

 

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The Long Discourses of the Buddha
A Translation of the Digha Nikaya
Chapter 15, Mahandina Sutta: The Great Discourse on Origination
By Maurice Walshe
First published in 1987 in paperback under the title of
Thus Have I Heard: The Long Discourses of the Buddha

Copyright (c) Maurice Walshe, 1987, 1995

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This Discourse can also be found at:
AccessToInsight.org
Maha-nidana Sutta
The Great Causes Discourse

 

There are many good words there, and I shall read them again. There is one thing i did not understand yet. Who is revered as "Lord" in the beginnig of the post?
In my understanding Buddha did not allow himself to be addressed as such. Am i wrong? Did the awake one prefer to be thought of as a ruler? I think I remember he prefered to be thought of as a teacher.

namaste' #

 

It is my understanding that "Lord" was commonly used out of respect. I'm not one-hundred percent certain on this as I was not there to witness his moments on earth, or experience his teachings directly. And I probably would not have been able to understand him unless I was able to speak his language, assuming the "I" from this moment were to appear in the moment of which the Buddha existed. However, I'm quite certain that any head of a household, head-of-state, head-of-[any religious order], head-of-[anything], was commonly called "Lord"

The online dictionary (dictionary.com) referrs to Lord as "A man of renowened power or authority. A man who has mastery in a given field or activity. The male head of a household. The proprietor of a manor. The general masculine title of nobility and other rank. ..." to name a few others. So this is where I draw my certainty that he was not being called "Lord" as if he were a diety because, and it is well-known that he was not a diety but a man as he claimed.

Any Buddhist culture that uses statues do not worship these statues. They are only reminders of what the statues represent. Reminders of the qualities of the Buddha, the qualities of the teaching, and the qualities of the sangha or order of monks who were the students of the Buddha.

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I agree with your conviction that the word lord can be used without religious relevance. I find it undeniable that several countries count buddhism as their state religion. I am not looking for argument there, i assume that you understand most of my meaning and things inherent mutifauceted compexities.
I have not studied the language or the subject matter enough to speak with any certainty, but i recall one fairly definitive story,

A 'lord' had come traveled far to see for himself if this man was as awe inspiring as his reputation, or if he was simply a fake. A short time in the pressence of Siddhartha Gautama was enough to convince the 'lord'. When in audience of Siddhartha The 'lord' asked "What are you?". He was answered "I am awake", translated literally from "buddha".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddha

My understanding of such things is quite uncultured. namaste' #