The Beginning Of The End?

An Australian television station broke the story just a few hours ago.
Horrific previously unpublished photo's from Abu Grahib.
I haven't seen the photo's yet personally but I read descriptions of them--people with thier throats slit, hanging upside down naked, covered with feces, attacked by dogs.
When the scandal of abuses at the U.S.-run prison first broke, politico's were shown some unpublished photo's in secret session and emerged ashen-faced.
Recently news org's sued for access and won.
They'll prob be broadcast/published world-wide, like the first set.
Coming on the heels of the first set, the cartoon violence, and the emergance of a video that shows British troops beating/torturing youths, this might just be where the Arabs say, in a unified vloice GET OUT.

 

And hopefully they do, but hopefully it isnt just Arabs. Hopefully they are joined by Persians, and Indians too. Hopefully Africa awakes from its exploitation and realizes she can be strong. Hopefully Latin America says no to Neoliberalism and stands up to the Hegemony of the US. Hopefully China and indeed all of Asia uses her economic might to tell America that it is the worlds bully no longer. Hopefully Europe and the Russians realize that they do not need to take orders from the white house, but that they can themselves be strong and peaceful at the same time. Hopefully Canada and Austraillia begin to stand up to the elephant that sleeps besides them. Hopefully the Native peoples of this continent stand up for what is rightfully theirs, and get it this time. And finally, hopefully the people of America reject the ignorance that is being fed to them by the system and they regurgitate that system which gives them no future, and give America a new peaceful face, so that it may once more be the land of the free, but no longer the home of the slave.


Hopefully.

 

Most telling is bushco's response.
Apologies, regret, promises to stop it?
Nope.
They're mad that they got caught, that someone "told" on them.
Torturing people to death is a=ok they say, but telling about it is the bad part.

They say it will enflame the Middle East and people world-wide. They're right.
Is the bush admin so corrupt that all they can do is condem the messenger?

I'd like professional bushco apologist Matthew check out the photo's and post make a post re: torture of civilians.

Several weeks ago the Brits beat Iraqi civilians in the street, some of them children.
Know what the Brit's response was?
They arrested/imprisoned the person who shot the video (a British soldier).

 

Its not as if the entire world didn't know that Americans were torturing people.

 

Do you people read beyond headlines?


Why would there be new arrests and denunciations? This story is two years old, and it was being investigated before the first set of photos came out. As I understand it, there are no new perpetrators revealed by these photos. So comparing it to the recent British case makes no sense.

And as for the "apologist" line, when was the last time matthew or myself approved of torture? Torture is bad, prosecute the offenders, end of story. That's my opinion.

What's more interesting is the idea that because of this we should immediately leave Iraq. For years, Abu Ghraib saw executions of political prisoners by the THOUSANDS. The ironic thing is, protection of human rights at Abu Ghraib under the US has - with no exaggeration - VASTLY improved. It is night and day.

But who cares? If a US soldier makes someone hang upside down naked (and is latter prosecuted and convicted for doing so), this means that Iraq was better off with mass executions, and the arab world - no wait the entire world - should rise up against America.

It is obvious that concern for human rights at Abu Ghraib means nothing, it is just another stick to bash the USA.

 

Iraq has mass executions, the death sentences fall from bombers, not saddam's mouth. The best thing to do would be to let Iraq govern itself and not to have invaded the place to begin with. The US helped Saddam rise to power in the first place, Iraq is suffering the wounds of years of Anglo-American imperialism. It will take many years for her to recover, but lets not forget that once upon a time, Baghdad was the brightest centre for culture and civilization the world had to offer. People were being murdered under Stalin, did that justify Hitlers invasion of Russia? same deal, smaller country.

 

Or is America merely using Human Rights to mask other motives for occupation.

 

PB after everything thats happened why are you still defending them?

 

I saw the video of that one (not on America TV, of course). Looked pretty bad.

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There should be little doubt that Iraq is on the verge of a full-scale civil war.

Shiite's have run secret prisons where Sunni's were tortured and 2 days ago I saw a report where groups of 12-24 men, wearing police uniforms, have broken into houses and kidnapped men, whose bodies, showing signs of torture, are found the next day on the outskits of Bhagdad. The victims have all been Sunni Muslims.
The U.S. supports the shiite's, btw.
On paper, the U.S. supports the Kurds too, but the very last thing the U.S. wants is an autonamous Kurdistan. A Kurd state in Iraq would mean civil wars in Turkey and Iraq, both of whom have sizable Kurdish populations.
A civil war in Iran means their oil production would drop; this would cause a world-wide shortage.
So it would be the U.S. & Shiite's vs. the Sunni's vs. the Kurds. Lots more U.S. casualities, more civilian deaths, and skyrocketing oil/gas prices.
george bush damn you to hell.

 

If only the people of the middle east would stop obeying the flags of the oil kingdoms that bow to the west and foresake their own people, and the Middle East united and realized she was strong, ancient, and wise, then the people of Baghdad, Rammallah, and Al Quds would fear imperialism no more. If only it were a non-religious union which would ensure the people the rights to practise their religion without the fear of being branded as terrorists for following the same religion as a few hypocrates claim to follow. If only imperialism would scourge the desert no more... if only......

 

I missed this persoanl attack .. PB has taken the words out of my mouth

Do you people read beyond headlines?

Why would there be new arrests and denunciations? This story is two years old, and it was being investigated before the first set of photos came out. As I understand it, there are no new perpetrators revealed by these photos

And as for the "apologist" line, when was the last time matthew or myself approved of torture? Torture is bad, prosecute the offenders, end of story. .

Images of 'torture' where passed onto the those in charge by other serving officers horrified at what was being done.. a internal investigation was mounted.. It is only the fact that it was put into the public domain by the US goverment .. shrill seekers like yourself have the opportunity to denounce such actions..

Yes it will inflame certain quarters.. but they look for any opportunity.. just like YOU.

Fuck the finer points Fuck the truth.. lets just ignore the reality of it.. it's so much better.

?...was you drunk when you typed this ?



You should try and engage with me in conversation..before you hurl vile accusations my way.

 

Why would there be new arrests and denunciations?

The "McCain" law that "banned" torture actually permits torture as long as the army decides it's okay. And even if the army decided it's not okay, Bush attached a "signing statement" which over-rides the law itself, and the Bush Admin says that it is the final and absolute authority on what is constitutional and what isn't- and what is legal and what isn't- and what is moral and what isn't- and both the Judicial and Legislative branches have formally agreed to this radical new approach to government, since they're both overwhelmingly Republican bodies.

The torture continues, and people are still being tortured literally to death.

But they have banned cameras from the torture sessions, so conservatives will, I guess, need to find a new source of stuff to jerk off to.

 

"Images of 'torture' where passed onto the those in charge by other serving officers horrified at what was being done.. a internal investigation was mounted.. It is only the fact that it was put into the public domain by the US goverment .. shrill seekers like yourself have the opportunity to denounce such actions..

Yes it will inflame certain quarters.. but they look for any opportunity.. just like YOU.

Fuck the finer points Fuck the truth.. lets just ignore the reality of it.. it's so much better."

That's your excuse for torture? It's ok? The secret got out so that makes it ok to torture people to death?
How would you feel it it were your brother or sister that were stripped naked and attacked by dogs? Or if it were your mom or dad hooded and stacked in a pile? Or your son or daughter lying on the floor with their throats slit?

And you deride me for denouncing such actions?
I bet you think like dope pusher rush, that torturing someone to death is nothing but a collage prank.

Yeah you bet torturing civilians to death will inflame people.

10's of thousands dead and what have we accomplished?
Did the death squads stop? No.
Did the kangaroo courts, complete with hooded judges and "witnesses" behind screens stop? No.
Did the torture and murders at Iraqi prisons stop?
No.
And of course no WMD.
Tell me again why we're there.

"You should try and engage with me in conversation..before you hurl vile accusations my way."
Were you getting fucked up the ass by Chuck Norris when you wrote this?

 

Which part of this did you not understand?

 

So you're if favor of The World Court prosecuting the torturer and the torturer's enabler's bush/gonzalas/rummy?

 

If torture has been approved by Bush, Rummy and Gonzales then why is Charles Graner in prison?

 

The abuse was never 'dealt with' properly. A few at the bottom were made scapegoats. It was all just a 'college prank'. Right.

In reality the Pentagon got caught red-handed. Some of the people at the upper level of the Pentagon are so far behind times that it didn't even occur to them that this could leak out through new technology such as cell phones. Someone at the Pentagon was dumb enough to put out a PDF of security operations in Iraq with hidden text. They didn't even realize that an average person could see that hidden text with a few keystrokes. Among other things, it gave out the type and frequency of the radio links being used by the U.S. in Iraq. It's just incompetence.

If they want to commit something illegal like abuse or torture, the least they could do is become competent in technology so that it won't get leaked out.

.

 

If the Pentagon was smart, it would have released all of the images right up front. That would have taken away the option of images being leaked or released at various times down the road and they wouldn't have the problems they are having now. And if the Pentagon was really smart, they wouldn't be committing abuse and torture at these prisons in the first place.

Similarly, the Bush administration should have let UN inspectors into Gitmo instead of stalling them and then getting upset that the UN issued a report without visiting. And yes, the Red Cross visits Gitmo but they don't publish their findings, which doesn't help much.

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